Charlie detecting Thinkamancy

[Raza]

I was just rereading the archives and picked up on something.

Charlie 'guessed' about the three caster link blowing up the volcano. This is plausible, but good guesswork.

Charlie can hack the eyebooks, apparently at will. We all knew this, but mostly seem to assume it's a discrete ability.

Charlie told Transylvito before the fight of the gap that 'his intel' had Stanley flying west the turn before. Stanley contacted Maggie by thinkagram that turn, and as far as we know Stanley's stack spotted no enemy units during their flight, despite having a foolamancer with them that could see through veiled archons, Charlie's most (only) likely scouting units. Charlie does not himself have a lookamancer, and although he could certainly hire one, I cannot see him freely volunteering this kind of costly extra service to the RCC. It would have to have been something he'd figured out passively, if he didn't make them pay for it enough to be mentioned.

So there it is; I think Charlie can detect any and all uses of thinkamancy; when, where, and possibly the full contents of any relayed message. This makes him a pretty scary foe, especially if it extends to the more common natural thinkamancies.

Thoughts?

[Dances-with-Marbits]

That is a very interesting theory, I wonder if it would extend to natural thinkamancy too...

[Ehbobo]

It's certainly possible. Just to play the Devil's Advocate though,

1)

Charlie 'guessed' about the three caster link blowing up the volcano. This is plausible, but good guesswork.

Possibly Charlie has contacts in the MK who were present when the link was unraveled.

2)

Charlie told Transylvito before the fight of the gap that 'his intel' had Stanley flying west the turn before. Stanley contacted Maggie by thinkagram that turn, and as far as we know Stanley's stack spotted no enemy units during their flight, despite having a foolamancer with them that could see through veiled archons, Charlie's most (only) likely scouting units.

Jack was incapacitated at the time. He couldn't even cast a satisfactory veil, let alone detect veiled spies.

[Yucca]

There's also the fact that whether or not it was free to him, Charlie wouldn't give useful information away for free. We should assume that either the RCC paid for the info, or supplying it was part of the ongoing contract that Charlie had with the RCC at the time.

[Raza]

It's certainly possible. Just to play the Devil's Advocate though,

1)

Charlie 'guessed' about the three caster link blowing up the volcano. This is plausible, but good guesswork.

Possibly Charlie has contacts in the MK who were present when the link was unraveled.

True.

2)

Charlie told Transylvito before the fight of the gap that 'his intel' had Stanley flying west the turn before. Stanley contacted Maggie by thinkagram that turn, and as far as we know Stanley's stack spotted no enemy units during their flight, despite having a foolamancer with them that could see through veiled archons, Charlie's most (only) likely scouting units.

Jack was incapacitated at the time. He couldn't even cast a satisfactory veil, let alone detect veiled spies.

Iunno about that. Seeing through veils seems more like a passive class ability thing, and Jack retained his powers, he just scrambled up using them a bit. I think he'd have said something (however nonsensical) if he'd spotted a veiled enemy. He certainly did when he was the first to spot the ambush.

There's also the fact that whether or not it was free to him, Charlie wouldn't give useful information away for free. We should assume that either the RCC paid for the info, or supplying it was part of the ongoing contract that Charlie had with the RCC at the time.

Fair enough, although that doesn't much impact anything else. He wouldn't hire a lookamancer out of his own pocket if he were already bound and paid for to share everything useful he knew, and there would likely have been some hint if the info cost the RCC an exceptionally high price. And he wouldn't hire a lookamancer unless anticipating a particularly juicy piece of info, which by his standards this wasn't, really.

[gazes_also]

2)

Charlie told Transylvito before the fight of the gap that 'his intel' had Stanley flying west the turn before. Stanley contacted Maggie by thinkagram that turn, and as far as we know Stanley's stack spotted no enemy units during their flight, despite having a foolamancer with them that could see through veiled archons, Charlie's most (only) likely scouting units.

Jack was incapacitated at the time. He couldn't even cast a satisfactory veil, let alone detect veiled spies.

Iunno about that. Seeing through veils seems more like a passive class ability thing, and Jack retained his powers, he just scrambled up using them a bit. I think he'd have said something (however nonsensical) if he'd spotted a veiled enemy. He certainly did when he was the first to spot the ambush.

Logically a large stack is a lot easier to spot at a distance than a single Archon, veiled or not. The description of Stanley " flying west" suggests they were spotted passing over a fixed location rather than being trailed. Maybe Charlie has other passive detection resources we don't know about yet.

[charles]

What if we simply presume that he knows other sides who do have lookamancers (or findamancers, depending) and got the information from them somehow. He does seem to like making casual conversation here and there to try and pull information out of people and sides for free.

Another presumption might be that the Arkendish affords him lookamancy or findamancy skills as well.

But I'm thinking that the answer might be staring us in the face. We know the gobwins broke alliance and took Gobwin Knob from King Saline IV, we also know that despite the Western Giant's alliance to the Jitterati, Jillian was able to converse and negotiate with them.

So, maybe the gobwins were selling information to Charlie or conversing with him? They'd be able to tell him which direction Stanly fled to, what types of units (including casters) lived inside and various other details. Charlie could easily have similar agreements with other tribes through Erfworld to exchange information for schmuckers that they put into rations and units or some service that Charlie provides (or he simply tricks them into telling him things in casual conversation).

[Raza]

Logically a large stack is a lot easier to spot at a distance than a single Archon, veiled or not. The description of Stanley " flying west" suggests they were spotted passing over a fixed location rather than being trailed. Maybe Charlie has other passive detection resources we don't know about yet.

Well, yes, but it wasn't the difficulty of spotting that was in question - it was whether Jack was in a state of mind to alert his stack about something he did spot. And being noticed passing over a fixed location fits the description of having an on-the-fly thinkagram traced.

And maybe he does, but knowing Charlie, would you rather assume they were not thinkamancy related?

Iunno. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but from a meta-fictional perspective I can't imagine the bit about charlie's intel being slipped in there if it wasn't going to fit in as a piece of a bigger puzzle later. Him getting it from a hired lookamancer or unrelated site that just happened to have a lookamancer pointed there is all possible, but we'd never find that out - that sort of thing would require a specific reveal that the bit of info simply doesn't warrant. In my interpretation, it is part of an upcoming reveal, setting a subtle precedent.

[gazes_also]

Iunno. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but from a meta-fictional perspective I can't imagine the bit about charlie's intel being slipped in there if it wasn't going to fit in as a piece of a bigger puzzle later. Him getting it from a hired lookamancer or unrelated site that just happened to have a lookamancer pointed there is all possible, but we'd never find that out - that sort of thing would require a specific reveal that the bit of info simply doesn't warrant. In my interpretation, it is part of an upcoming reveal, setting a subtle precedent.

Not everything is foreshadowing dagnabit. Sometimes a plot point is just a plot point.
It was necessary for Stanley, Jillian and the TV group to be elsewhere when the volcano blew to survive; (Stanley couldn't have gone to MK) therefore Stanley has to flee and Jillian has to intercept him. In order to intercept him she had to know he left GK and which direction he was going to figure he was heading for Faq. The problem then is, how does she get conclusive enough info to convince TV to support her? Charlie tells them - problem solved in one line in one panel.

Now at some point in the future it might be worked back in as significant - that doesn't mean that it didn't start as a simple necessary convenience, a throwaway line; writers do that.

[Raza]

Iunno, I don't think that was ever a problem at all. Jillian had all the necessary info, Ansom was convinced, Vinnie thought it was believable - the Charlie bit barely came up, and never on its own to convince anyone that previously wasn't. It wasn't needed.

[Raza]

Bump. Today's comic warrants reviving this discussion, and hints heavily in favor of my hypothesis.

[Nihila]

If Charlie can wiretap Thinkagrams, why did the veiled dwagons surprise the RCCII? He would have at least told Jillian, who should have told the others that, even if she had to invent some excuse to know like, say, going scouting and just happening upon a force of dwagons. Charlie could have thought of that plot, even though Jillian couldn't have.

[ftl]

If Charlie can detect thinkamancy, he's even more powerful than we thought. And we thought he was pretty damn overpowered as is.

If that's true, then he really needs to become the explicit enemy sometime very soon, because it becomes less and less plausible that with all his info and power he's for some reason just sitting on the sidelines doing minor meddling. (Or, conversely, we need to be shown why, despite appearances, he never cared about this conflict after all, which would be why he's not dominating it.)

[Raza]

If Charlie can wiretap Thinkagrams, why did the veiled dwagons surprise the RCCII? He would have at least told Jillian, who should have told the others that, even if she had to invent some excuse to know like, say, going scouting and just happening upon a force of dwagons. Charlie could have thought of that plot, even though Jillian couldn't have.

Where has it been established that the veiled dwagon tactic was discussed by thinkagram?

The text updates preceding that scene specifically say that magic hats were being used for communication, with the odd dragon relay meeting inbetween. Thinkagrams didn't get used until real-time action started, to give Stanley a view of the action.

Why they switched now, I'm not sure. Maybe Parson doesn't know how to work a magic hat, or would just look awkward doing it. Maybe none of the flying force brought their hats. Maybe hat magic is somehow unwieldy during combat and better suited for downtime communications?

Doesn't change the thinkagram thing, though.

[cdrcjsn]

Well, right now this is a very powerful tool in Charlie's arsenal because nobody knows he can do it.

As soon as it becomes obvious, it'll be similar to how radio was handled during the wars of the 20th century. Messages will be coded and the truly important ones will only be given in person.

So Charlie should enjoy it as long as it lasts. As soon as others find out, not only will he no longer be able to freely eavesdrop, but it'll cut down significantly on his income as the primary messenger service of erfworld.

[Turtlewing]

If Charlie can detect thinkamancy, he's even more powerful than we thought. And we thought he was pretty damn overpowered as is.

If that's true, then he really needs to become the explicit enemy sometime very soon, because it becomes less and less plausible that with all his info and power he's for some reason just sitting on the sidelines doing minor meddling. (Or, conversely, we need to be shown why, despite appearances, he never cared about this conflict after all, which would be why he's not dominating it.)

Who says he's not dominating the conflict now?
Asside from Jillian not sticking to the plan I'd say Charlie has shown he has excelent controle of the situation. He's arranged for GK to commit it's most valuble asset to a battle that had all aperences of being an easy win, only for it to turn out to be a trap. Furthermore he's done so without signifigant risk to his own assets (though he did take an unusually high risk by accepting the arkendish down-time in order to cast kingworld).

Charlie clearly subscribes to the Futurama-God school of thought "when you do things right people shouldn't be sure you've done anything at all". He probably will be drawn into a more open conflict eventually, but even then I'd expect him to prefer supporting FAQ over an official decleration of war. After all one of the worst things a mercinary can do for buisness is be seen taking sides out of ideology.

[Raza]

So Charlie should enjoy it as long as it lasts. As soon as others find out, not only will he no longer be able to freely eavesdrop, but it'll cut down significantly on his income as the primary messenger service of erfworld.

Mmm. Presumably people expect him to know the contents of thinkagrams related through him, though. In fact, that's probably his best cover for knowing things he shouldn't, both to erfworlders and us readers.

When he talked about how "questions of how I come to know things are among the most difficult for him in terms of providing an anwer", ethical and contractual restrictions in relations to clients, etc... the obvious interpretation is that it's about info other sides knowingly (if often reluctantly and only out of necessity) trusted him with.

Since no side knows Charlies dealings with every (or even any) other side, there's very little that they can be sure he shouldn't be able to know. This makes the bigger secret difficult to guess at.

[ParsonIsOP]

I think Charlie is knows enough about Thinkamancy that a three-caster link isn't too surprising for him. Keep in mind that Stanley (uncharacteristically) thought to use the three-caster link to create a communication network.

The knowledge about the link is rare. Sizemore states that warlords generally aren't very interested in magic, which explains why few people exploited the ability.

We also know that Charlie replicated the feat himself somehow.

If Charlie were a Thinkamancer, then this would explain why he knew of it. And it wouldn't be odd for him to pull the turn-skipping spell like he did.

Of course, even if Charlie weren't a Thinkamancer, he might have enough interest in magic that he studies it. And it's already has been stated that Charlie hires casters and has a good reputation in the Magic Kingdom. So if he wanted to, he could just hire a Thinkamancer for the turn-skipping spell. Of course, we must also consider that his Arkendish probably played a major role in the spell.

[Decorus]

If Charlie has a good reputation in the MK thats probably how he found out what happened especially since Sizemore told Janis and god knows who else listened in.
Thats of course assuming Charlie wasn't the guy who undid the Tri caster link.
One of Charlie's biggest things is client confidentiality so its probable most people don't actually try and encode thinkagrams sent through Charlie.
0f course Charlie could also be getting intelligence from the Decrypted Archons since they are still following Charlie's rules.

[the_tick_rules]

Nah, the archon's are wanda's now.