The Stanley Fan Club

Speculation, discoveries, complaints, accusations, praise, and all other Erfworld discussion.

The Stanley Fan Club

Postby Hiai » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:11 pm

Why does everyone hate Stanley?

Ok, sure he is childish. But how does that inspire hatred so easily? Let's face it, in many ways he IS a child.

Until fairly recently he was a mere Piker. He found and attuned to the Arkenhammer, and was catapulted to a Warlord immediately. He runs around Rocking Out and winning battles, his King pats him on the head, tells him he's doing a great job, and makes him his heir..the ULTIMATE validation that what you are doing is great.

Then, it all comes crashing down when Saline IV is assassinated, and Stanley all of a sudden is expected to be a Grown Up. He is now the Overlord of an entire side, responsible, literally, for the lives of thousands of units, and is LOST. Along comes Wanda, who is the classic manipulator, and ever so subtlely gets him to do her bidding. All she had to do was flatter him (read: show approval to someone so insecure that they are desperate for even the slightest shred of approval) every time he did what she wanted, and get that "worried" look when he "screwed up".

This whole scenario reminds me very much of any young, talented kid who is "discovered", and the perils of child stardom. Stanley has no wise parent to guide him in the cruel world of those who would use him for their own ends. He has to improvise. He is only now starting to realize that maybe Wanda is someone that cannot be fully trusted (greedy manager, anyone?), and that his preconceptions of how great being a ruler must be were quite naive. Being a ruler isn't just about privilege, it's about responsibility as well, and Stanley is having to come to grips with this. It's no fun being a Grown Up.

And yet, he's adjusting. Like the child that has been praised for his talent, only to be held to a higher standard than other children, Stanley is trying to muddle through some very difficult and possibly disastrous decisions, with no one at this point that he can rely on to be truthful OR helpful. You can see how much more relaxed he is when doing something he knows.

Dealing with a Foolamancer who has taken a brain vacation? Not so good. Facing down your enemies who are out to kill you without a shred of cowardice and Rocking Out? Suddenly he's in his element and the decisive, on-the-fly tactical decisions are fairly sound, reflecting at least the ability to think a problem through and come up with viable solutions, even under great pressure. He is not as clueless and evil and monomanical as everyone has made him out to be.

He is merely a child trying desperately to fit in with the Big Boys, attempting to appear one of them. His perception that he must put on a facade of implacable invincibilty is directly shaped from his own upbringing and limitations, popped to be a Piker with absolute loyalty to his ruler, cannon fodder without much of a brain.

Stanley is doing his very best to rise above his disadvantages, and despite a predictably rocky time of it, some of his decisions have been surprisingly good. If he had been left to his own devices to develop as a ruler, then he might be showing a whole lot more maturity of outlook by now, but Wanda interfered with his growth because it fit HER agenda. Nevertheless, we have seen glimpses of his ability to mature shining through, particularly when it comes to the way he treats the units under his command.

People point to his ruthless arrogance and his dismissiveness toward his underlings as if that makes Stanley a bad ruler. On the contrary, in these instances, Stanley is merely emulating what he's seen his whole life from every other ruler out there. Remember, this is Erfworld. Where an individual uni'ts name is practically nonexistent to their commander, and your worth is calculated on how many levels you've achieved (read:battles you've survived), and your sole purpose regardless of your feelings, is to risk your life at the whim of your commander. No matter how competent or not that commander is.

Stanley popped as a Piker. That means his whole life until Warlord was spent KNOWING that he was destined to die somewhere, his name not even remembered and his deeds unnoticed forever, to dissolve someday, or possibly be uncroaked and even more worthless. Then, the miraculous happened and he found and attuned to the Arkenhammer (I would LOVE to see the detailed story about that day and how it happened!), giving himself a whole new life, one he could never have imagined. Even as a Warlord, though, he was at the whim of his ruler for everything and destined to die someday for someone else's goals. Now the unthinkable has happened and HE'S the ruler. With no training, no precedent, and no idea how to proceed.

The day that Parson called him a tool was the best thing that could have happened. In one fell swoop Stanley found an explanation for everything that has happened to him, a new sense of purpose, and a feeling that destiny has called him. No wonder he has embraced the idea of Toolism so fiercely. He shows no inclination to be a religious fanatic, like Ansom and Ossomer have become, yet Toolism is the fulfillment of his wish to be a good ruler. All he has to do is put himself "in the hands of the Titans", and everything will work out.

It's what every famous kid that had to grow up to quickly ever wanted.

And by the way, he has shown flashes of compassion and thoughtfulness that other rulers haven't. His bipolar-seeming enthusiasms (can we say ADHD kids?) aside, Stanley, in the very small amount of face time he's gotten, has shown visible progress in the Being a Grown Up arena, and an instinct that is remarkable for a lowly Piker, especially given his obtuseness in most other areas. Sure, he spends way too much time emulating those he secretly idolizes (the royals like Ansom), but it's the way he was popped. His glee at defeating those he privately considers above him is understandable, given that it's more evidence that he has a purpose and a mandate from the Titans. What insecure person could resist? Heck, he even bothered to learn Jack's name! Most of the rulers in Erfworld seem to not have bothered to do so, calling them by their function, but Stanley learned that maybe it WAS important to know more about the units under your command. Both the wise thing to do and unprecedented behavior for a royal.

Well, to sum up all this rambling: Stanley is a child thrust into a situation ill-prepared. But I, for one, see some potential, and would like to see him get a chance to develop it, especially out from under those who use them for their own purposes, and under the influence of Parson, who, although not the most mature himself, has morals and scruples that have been shown to be quite rare in Erfworld. I think that Stanley and Parson have alot to learn from each other, and I'd like them get a chance to do so. Parenthood is the ultimate maturity tool, and I think Parson taking on Stanley's obvious need in this regard would develop his character, as well.
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby pSycHOtic chICkeN » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:59 am

A similar passage could be written about a Bavarian lance corporal named Adolf Hitler. A rough childhood and/or traumatic combat experiences can explain a lot of why some people act the way they do. Everyone is still responsible for his/her own decisions.

Joseph Stalin also came to power when a leader was assassinated. All dictators that people hate have some redeeming qualities. There are old black and white films of Hitler playing with the Goebels children. He was not a raving homicidal lunatic every hour of every day. All serial killers, rapist and terrorists also have days when no one gets hurt. But I would not join their fan club.
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby Sygerrik » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:18 am

I love Stanley! And a one-post Godwin must be some kind of record.

Stanley is nothing like Hitler. He's not really worse in any measurable way than any other ruler. Slately and Don King undoubtedly croaked hundreds if not thousands of Gobwin Knob units, just as Stanley croaked theirs. What they would have done had they won was no different than what Stanley did as winner. One could make a case that he is a "bad guy" as the instigator, but Erfworld exists in a state of perpetual war. There is no "wrong side," only a different side. No Ruler wants to bring peace to Erfworld, and no Ruler wants what's best for his units. They want to win battles, gain territory, and preserve and perpetuate their power. All of them. Jillian, Slately, Don King, even King Haggar and the late Queen Bea.

What decisions has Stanley made that any other ruler hasn't or wouldn't? What makes him worse than Don King, or Jillian, or Slately? The obvious point would be the assassination of Saline, but there's a couple of truck-sized holes in that statement. First, we have no proof that it WAS Stanley, and frankly I doubt it; it's a bit too shrewd for him. Second, we don't know what kind of person Saline was, but he WAS a king of a side with Hobgobwins, Spidews, Twolls and other "classically evil" creatures. Third, it's not as though assassination or usurpation are frowned upon in Erfworld. Don King's son tried it, remember? It may not be the most "noble" of ways to succeed to a throne but it's certainly not taboo. The RCC hated him not because of how he came to the throne, but because he wasn't Royal.

I love Stanley. I think he's one of the more likable characters in the comic; much more so than either of the current leading ladies and definitely more than Charlie or any of the Transylvitians (with the possible exception of Caesar). I think he understands his place, as Wanda does, as a Tool of the Titans. He is determined to do what he's "supposed" to, which makes him easy to manipulate, because he has faith that the Titans have a plan for him and the Hammer is a sign of their pleasure and interest. I agree with a lot of the stuff in the OP, and I can't wait to see more Stanley time.

EDIT: I've always felt that seeing a "good side" and a "bad side" in Erfworld is a rather simplistic reading of it. There are no good guys or bad guys (with the possible exception of Parson). That's one of the central concepts of the comic. How much free will do Erfworlders really have? How much of what they do is up to them? Does that excuse their evil acts, or render meaningless their good ones, or both? Jillian seems to be a "good" person, but she's rude, self-centered, arrogant and in love with one of the most unambiguously "evil" characters in the comic-- enough that she's willing to sacrifice everything to be with her. Is that "good?" Is Stanley "evil" for wanting to conquer the world, given that pretty much every Side on Erf spends all of its time working towards exactly that end?
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby Thunder » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:25 am

if you have to give an excuse for someones action, theirs a very good chance that their performing bad actions.
if that excuse shifts blame to some completely irrelevant source (his parent or lack there of) than that chance(that it is a bad action being performed) approaches 1
a good or bad person is someone who performs a good or bad action

Stanly, simply put, performs bad actions and that is why he is considered a bad person

as a side note i hate incompetent people who are so stupid that they cant see how terrible they are, and so i particularly dislike Stanly's character

also how can you not like Charlie? hes amazing
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:26 am

Oh snap. This thread has been killed by premature Godwination.

... or maybe not. I'm a Stanley fan too, so let's reply to "if you need to make excuses for a character's actions, that character is not a nice person".

Agreed. Stanley has all the bad attributes of immaturity, insecurity, callousness and so on. It doesn't matter that he popped that way, he's still pretty much a jerk.

BUT, even a Bastard character may be a Magnificent Bastard, as evidenced by who the top-runner in this year's Best Supporting Actor* is: the actor did a great job of portraying the role, sure, but doesn't that villainous character also in a sense deserve some credit, since it made for an interesting character to play.

Stanley, of course, is NOT a Magnificent Bastard. He's a TRAGIC Bastard, in almost the classical sense: some otherwise regular guy whose ambition strands him way out of his league and pitted against forces much greater. Some of us, like say, me, enjoy this kind of character. So yeah, go Stanley! Wooooo!

Conclusion: some villain characters are enjoyable. You may NOT want to hang out with them or be in the same ZIP code even, but they are interesting to read about. And for some of us, Stanley is such a character.

*: that guy from Inglorious Basterds. The one who played a, well this thread's been Godwinized, a Nazi.
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:53 am

Thunder wrote:as a side note i hate incompetent people who are so stupid that they cant see how terrible they are, and so i particularly dislike Stanly's character


A lot of high quality comedy (Blackadder the season one version, Fawlty Towers, Mr. Bean, Monty Python and the quest for the Holy Grail etc.) would be lost on you if you just couldn't stand these kinds of characters. Of course, the point of said comedy is to see how the aura of confidence these characters try to keep about themselves is repeatedly punctured by reality, but it works best if you remember that we the viewers are not that different from the silly people on the screen.

Thunder wrote:also how can you not like Charlie? hes amazing


To quote words of wisdom, I hate manipulative people who are so embroiled in their own plots that they forget other people are persons, and so I particularly dislike Charlie's character.
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby theseus2x » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:16 pm

I will grant you the following :

1) Stanley is adjusting.
2) Stanley isn't a tyrant, per se. He doesn't do what he does to be evil.

Having said all that, he slow to recognize his humility. Parson saved his ass about three times, and has come up with a lot of idea that have been key. But Stanley hates Parson, so Parson never gets any credit. And when something goes wrong, who's the first person Stanley blames? That's right - Parson.

Plus : Many people - myself included - have had a boss that reminds us of Stanley. Thank about that.

Consider this : Stanley is of the Plaid tribe. We've had no indications the Plaid tribe is repopulating. Want to know who Stanley's oldest surviving confirmed relative is? Sizemore. Does Stanley even know Sizemore's name? Or acknowledge his existence? Obviously not.
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby Thunder » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:26 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:
Conclusion: some villain characters are enjoyable. You may NOT want to hang out with them or be in the same ZIP code even, but they are interesting to read about. And for some of us, Stanley is such a character.


right cause hes a bad guy, i cant argue for liking someone(i only said why i dont like him), hell even manson has groupies doesn't he?

BLANDCorporatio wrote:
A lot of high quality comedy (Blackadder the season one version, Fawlty Towers, Mr. Bean, Monty Python and the quest for the Holy Grail etc.) would be lost on you if you just couldn't stand these kinds of characters. Of course, the point of said comedy is to see how the aura of confidence these characters try to keep about themselves is repeatedly punctured by reality, but it works best if you remember that we the viewers are not that different from the silly people on the screen.



first of all why must i like a character to understand comedy?
secondly there is a difference between me not liking a character in a movie and me finding something funny.
finally even if the first two were true what does that have anything to do with stanley not being a bad person?

remember i only take issue with trying to make him out as a good person i dont really care if you like him, even sociopaths have fanatical followers
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby Nebulious » Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:55 pm

Godwined in one post. Nice.
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby Sygerrik » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:43 pm

I still don't see any evidence that Stanley "does bad actions." Remember, Erfworld has different standards. EVERYONE is warlike-- the world exists only for war, in a perpetual state of all against all. Stanley is stupid, but stupidity isn't immoral or evil. It's morally neutral. And nothing Stanley has done has been more "evil" than anything anyone else does. When Jillian croaked a bunch of strangers as a mercenary, was that evil? When Don King set up his heir designate to be croaked, was that evil? When Slately destroyed a bunch of Haggar's cities and croaked its soldiers to prove a point, was that evil?

Stanley has never, to the best of my knowledge, been unnecessarily cruel, has never ordered others to be unnecessarily cruel, has never betrayed a trusted ally (jury's still out on Saline's assassination), has never croaked anyone for fun, has never gone out of his way to do any classically "evil" things. It's become generally accepted opinion that he's a bad guy, but I've seen no evidence for it. He's immature, and he's callous, and he's not too smart, but he's not "evil."

And yes, Charlie is much, much worse-- probably the second-most-"evil" character behind Wanda. He's secretive and manipulative, he treats other people as means to an end, he's arrogant and condescending and utterly self-serving. He has no scruples and no values other than to enrich himself at the expense of his "clients." To me, all that screams "bad guy." I'd love to see him croaked.
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby pSycHOtic chICkeN » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:23 pm

Sygerrik wrote:I love Stanley! And a one-post Godwin must be some kind of record.

Stanley is nothing like Hitler. He's not really worse in any measurable way than any other ruler.



I was not trying to compare Stanley to Hitler or Stalin. My point was that the list of excuses are not good excuses. I'm not sure if Stanley is any worse than Parson.


Sygerrik wrote:Slately and Don King undoubtedly croaked hundreds if not thousands of Gobwin Knob units, just as Stanley croaked theirs. What they would have done had they won was no different than what Stanley did as winner. One could make a case that he is a "bad guy" as the instigator, but Erfworld exists in a state of perpetual war. There is no "wrong side," only a different side. No Ruler wants to bring peace to Erfworld, and no Ruler wants what's best for his units. They want to win battles, gain territory, and preserve and perpetuate their power. All of them. Jillian, Slately, Don King, even King Haggar and the late Queen Bea.

That is an ad hominem. Other people are rapists. Does that make it O.K. for me to become one too?

I do think Stanley is a well made and developed character. I do not believe that Rob intended anyone to like Stanley. I would say I am an erfworld fan (that is why I keep reading and chatting about it, will become tool as soon as able). Stanley is an important part of a good story. I would not say that Stanley needs to be fixed.
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby Sinrus » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:43 pm

pSycHOtic chICkeN wrote:
Sygerrik wrote:Slately and Don King undoubtedly croaked hundreds if not thousands of Gobwin Knob units, just as Stanley croaked theirs. What they would have done had they won was no different than what Stanley did as winner. One could make a case that he is a "bad guy" as the instigator, but Erfworld exists in a state of perpetual war. There is no "wrong side," only a different side. No Ruler wants to bring peace to Erfworld, and no Ruler wants what's best for his units. They want to win battles, gain territory, and preserve and perpetuate their power. All of them. Jillian, Slately, Don King, even King Haggar and the late Queen Bea.

That is an ad hominem. Other people are rapists. Does that make it O.K. for me to become one too?


There's a difference between "other people are this" and "everybody is this". If literally everybody thinks something is right, then you conforming to that can't possibly be wrong because there can be no judgement on that if there are no opposing parties.
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby theseus2x » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:30 am

I am going to quote something from the writer of Erfworld's former companion strip, Order of the Stick. Rich Burlew is speaking of "Xykon" :

"I mean, he's completely and wholly unapollegetically evil, but more to the point, he's sort of a dick."

Yes, Erfworld is a place where conquering your neighbor is not seen as a remarkable thing. Yes, units are popped with little more purpose than to fight and die for territory and resources. Yes, it is unfair.

Stanley is a complete dick. To Parson. To Sizemore. To pretty much everyone not named Wanda, and even with her, he can go ape-shit.

He has the emotional maturity of a 5-year old.
He has the fanaticism of a modern day Religious Fundamentalist. (Pick your denomination - they're all evil.)
He has the strategic mind of Thog. (Again, OOTS)

THat's why we love to hate him.
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby Sygerrik » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:46 am

Sinrus wrote:
pSycHOtic chICkeN wrote:
Sygerrik wrote:Slately and Don King undoubtedly croaked hundreds if not thousands of Gobwin Knob units, just as Stanley croaked theirs. What they would have done had they won was no different than what Stanley did as winner. One could make a case that he is a "bad guy" as the instigator, but Erfworld exists in a state of perpetual war. There is no "wrong side," only a different side. No Ruler wants to bring peace to Erfworld, and no Ruler wants what's best for his units. They want to win battles, gain territory, and preserve and perpetuate their power. All of them. Jillian, Slately, Don King, even King Haggar and the late Queen Bea.

That is an ad hominem. Other people are rapists. Does that make it O.K. for me to become one too?


There's a difference between "other people are this" and "everybody is this". If literally everybody thinks something is right, then you conforming to that can't possibly be wrong because there can be no judgement on that if there are no opposing parties.


That's precisely my point. If you define certain actions as "evil," that's one thing. If every single person in the world does those actions-- or even enough to make it the norm-- your definition becomes meaningless. If everyone is evil, nobody is, because evil is an entirely relative term. If you believe morality is objective, that's fine too, but then any moral system that calls Stanley evil would have to call the entire Erf evil as well, and that begs the question of why Stanley is singled out as the figurehead of evil.

To theseus: two of your three points about Stanley are comments on his stupidity, not his moral character. And the third is shared by literally every person on Erf. Everyone is fanatic. Decrypted and Wanda and Stanley are Toolists. Royals are Royalists. Charlie and Jillian fanatically believe they are in the right, so much so that neither balks at the cost in lives and energy to achieve their goals. Erf is a place where everything is in black and white, where sides are so rigid as to be a part of your person, where concepts like Loyalty and Duty are quantified and codified as raw numbers. It's not Earth.
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby splintermute » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:01 am

Sygerrik wrote:EDIT: I've always felt that seeing a "good side" and a "bad side" in Erfworld is a rather simplistic reading of it. There are no good guys or bad guys (with the possible exception of Parson). That's one of the central concepts of the comic. How much free will do Erfworlders really have? How much of what they do is up to them? Does that excuse their evil acts, or render meaningless their good ones, or both? Jillian seems to be a "good" person, but she's rude, self-centered, arrogant and in love with one of the most unambiguously "evil" characters in the comic-- enough that she's willing to sacrifice everything to be with her. Is that "good?" Is Stanley "evil" for wanting to conquer the world, given that pretty much every Side on Erf spends all of its time working towards exactly that end?


I think there was another often-overlooked "good" guy (by Earth morality standards) native to Erfworld - King Banhammer. Other than being a somewhat neglectful father, he seemed to be a nice pacifist without any hidden agendas.

theseus2x wrote:Consider this : Stanley is of the Plaid tribe. We've had no indications the Plaid tribe is repopulating. Want to know who Stanley's oldest surviving confirmed relative is? Sizemore. Does Stanley even know Sizemore's name? Or acknowledge his existence? Obviously not.


I don't think the GITP cast page is officially canon (I think Balder disclaimed it at some point) - but if Stanley and Sizemore and Saline were all from the Plaid tribe, I think there's still another surviving member out there: Maggie (and Misty, before the unfortunate incident in Book 1). He does seem to know her name and acknowledge her existence, and occasionally get angry at her.
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby Thunder » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:07 am

Sygerrik wrote:enough to make it the norm-- your definition becomes meaningless. If everyone is evil, nobody is, because evil is an entirely relative term. If you believe morality is objective, that's fine too, but then any moral system that calls Stanley evil would have to call the entire Erf evil as well, and that begs the question of why Stanley is singled out as the figurehead of evil.


so to conclude slavery is cool cause it was the norm and stanley cant be evil unless everyone who either tortures/encourages torture is evil

hell you know what fuck it ill even argue why stanleys a bad guy from erfworlds point of view twice

first: the majority of the factions in erfworld think hes evil, since your definition of good and evil is based on popularity he must be evil
second: if you accept torture rape murder etc as acceptable in erfworld because that is simply what most sides to to each other, you must accept that fucking over your own side would be considered a bad thing by the erfworlders. Stanley nearly got everyone on his side killed off except for himself and a select few when he left his capitol to run to faq, and since stupidity is neutral than him being incompetent isn't an excuse and so hes still evil
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:46 am

Thunder wrote:right cause hes a bad guy, i cant argue for liking someone(i only said why i dont like him), hell even manson has groupies doesn't he?

{...}
finally even if the first two were true what does that have anything to do with stanley not being a bad person?

remember i only take issue with trying to make him out as a good person i dont really care if you like him, even sociopaths have fanatical followers


We are in agreement here. Stanley is a villain, and any steps that he showed of "turning good" are immediately taken back.

The point is, you don't have to approve of a character, or respect their competence (competence might make things worse, see Charlie) in order to find them sympathetic or in some sense like them. You would not want to have such people nearby or as your boss for example, but they are fun to read about.

Thunder wrote:first of all why must i like a character to understand comedy?
secondly there is a difference between me not liking a character in a movie and me finding something funny.


Let's resume ourselves to character based comedy, because a situation itself can be funny without resorting to character to build the lulz. Or the comedy may be fart jokes. Or puns. Or Family Guy. In other words fart jokes.

But I'm talking about character comedy, which as far as I can tell is about seeing some people placed in undignified situations as the result of their shortcomings. Thing is, I think something is lost if you don't find it in you to empathize with those characters, and consider yourself immune to plights of their kind.

Sinrus wrote:There's a difference between "other people are this" and "everybody is this". If literally everybody thinks something is right, then you conforming to that can't possibly be wrong because there can be no judgement on that if there are no opposing parties.


Oh dear. This thread, after being Godwinized, has been hijacked by philosophy.

I've made reply to this, but I'll spoiler it so that it can be ignored if you prefer.

Spoiler: show
First off, I'm of the belief that some things are morally wrong, and that's the way they are regardless of what everybody happens to think.

However, Erfworld does not look like the place where morality can apply. Apparently (almost) everyone in Erfworld exists as mere tools of their hierarchical superior. There are chains and whips and such, to maintain some twisted parallel of Earth, but on Erfworld they are not actually necessary. Your units are yours, internally compelled by their duty to you and have no say in the matter other than how to best serve you.

As far as I can tell, morality exists to describe what is proper, and what isn't, in dealings between people. It assumes that people are in their minds independent of the wills of others, and in this sense freely choose their associations and relations. Call this free agency, and morality requires that it be respected for all. The ol' your freedom goes until it bumps in the freedom of others, consent is important etc.

There is no consent in Erfworld because by their nature people there are not equal.
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby Hobgobwin » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:23 pm

pSycHOtic chICkeN wrote:That is an ad hominem.


No it isn't.
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby theseus2x » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:51 pm

splintermute wrote:
theseus2x wrote:Consider this : Stanley is of the Plaid tribe. We've had no indications the Plaid tribe is repopulating. Want to know who Stanley's oldest surviving confirmed relative is? Sizemore. Does Stanley even know Sizemore's name? Or acknowledge his existence? Obviously not.


I don't think the GITP cast page is officially canon (I think Balder disclaimed it at some point) - but if Stanley and Sizemore and Saline were all from the Plaid tribe, I think there's still another surviving member out there: Maggie (and Misty, before the unfortunate incident in Book 1). He does seem to know her name and acknowledge her existence, and occasionally get angry at her.


Some time ago, I started a thread to debate whether Maggie (and perhaps Misty) were of the Plaid tribe. We determined that it wasn't conclusive.

But yes - I was regarding the cast page as canon. We know more about Sizemore's background than most, and he certainly IMPLIED that he popped GK.

Regardless - Ansom, Slately and the others may be arrogant, but I couldn't imagine them treating their people as Stanley treats his.
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Re: The Stanley Fan Club

Postby splintermute » Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:00 pm

theseus2x wrote:Some time ago, I started a thread to debate whether Maggie (and perhaps Misty) were of the Plaid tribe. We determined that it wasn't conclusive.

But yes - I was regarding the cast page as canon. We know more about Sizemore's background than most, and he certainly IMPLIED that he popped GK.

Regardless - Ansom, Slately and the others may be arrogant, but I couldn't imagine them treating their people as Stanley treats his.


Other rulers do sometimes treat their units the way Stanley treats his - just looking at prior treatment of casters, it's wildly inconsistent - it seems some rulers are just more fond of some casters than others: Queen Bea seemed to like all her casters; Don refers to Bunny by name, but hasn't mentioned his other casters; the Jetstones seem to like Cubbins, but the rest are just healomancer, dittomancer, dollamancer, and the Jetstone warlord didn't even use that formal a title - he just call the dittomancer "caster"; Jillian oscillates between calling her turnamancer Vanna and just thinking of her as a generic caster; I don't know if Charlie knows the names of all his archons, or just the ones he's fond of; and Stanley may ignore Sizemore, but he definitely doesn't ignore Wanda's existence, and he's warming up to Jack.

As for tribal affiliations, other than in the case of royal overlords and their "children", it doesn't seem that important in Erfworld. And if Stanley and Saline were of the Plaid tribe, it's no longer "nearly-lost." GK has 15 cities now, and technically every infantry and warlord unit they've popped is of the Plaid tribe. Sizemore may be Stanley's oldest "relative," but only in the sense that every unit GK ever popped was Stanley's relative. Other than presumably going on a few missions with him, there's no reason to think Stanley and Sizemore had any extensive prior interactions.
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