Charlie

[the_tick_rules]

Charlie is easy to defeat, just stop paying him the money he needs to pay his horrendous upkeep expenses.

[Thunder]

that would work if everyone teamed up against him, but thats not going to happen because he doesn't pose a direct threat, and since everyone seems to have some enemy there more worried about, even if everyone agreed not to use him, someone would the moment they needed help dealing with someone else, and with his unmatched intelligence he could probably get money from everyone to not take contracts from the side there fighting at the moment

not to mention if this did happen charlie would simply start taking cities like every other side, hes no fool and hes not someone to be bogged down with tradition, hes going to change if he needs to

[the_tick_rules]

That's why this situation is so dangerous for him. People are beginning to notice he doesn't want anyone to ever really win.

[Thunder]

everyone always known this, atleast they should have been able to figure out that the arms dealer prefers it when there is a demand for arms, but more importantly there are two key issues. the first is that he is not a direct threat, as opposed to the enemies who are actually attacking your side, and two erfworld is much bigger then the rcc and gk. if im not mistaken charlie has dealings far away from this war in lands that are completely unknown to these sides. (always wondered if there are mult magic kingdoms since otherwise everyone would know about the other places on erfworld

[the_tick_rules]

I think they had some idea he was taking advantage of them but I doubt they knew he was actively rigging the system and using his resources to keep them needing him as much as he has. He's put himself forth as a neutral merc who helps anyone who throws down the schmuckers. His veil is starting to come off and him as a manipulator to fill his own pocketbook is coming out. They've indicated there is a lot more to erf than we've seen yes, but we dunno how much of a percentage of his income comes from known erf. Given the lengths he's going to there it's almost certianly alot.

[effataigus]

Looking at the avatars on this page makes me think that Sizemore is LARPing being a shockamancer.

"Lightning bolt!... lightning bolt!... umm... summon owl familiar..."

[the_tick_rules]

It's the pic of when sizemore pulled the finger of the crap golem.

[danhaas]

The problem I see with Charlie being the Arkendish itself is how he would deal with schmuckers and upkeep payment. As a caster he would have trouble as well, because his purse is limited, but with a Moneymancer he could create and consume gems and so simulate a bigger purse. Also, he shows some rather human emotions such as greed and fear...

Being a barbarian caster explains some of his peculiarities:

1) Just one city. He in fact doesn't own that city, he is just IN it. As a caster with no warlords he can't claim a city nor create a new side. He probably got that city from his former Ruler.
2) He has only archons and Cloth Golems. He has only those because they are the only ones he CAN produce. Through magic and not poped by the city.
3)No expansion for new cities. As he doesn't have a side, he can't conquer other cities, they would just be frozen in place waiting a warlord to claim it.

As a caster, he could hire other casters through schmuckers/rands. For this speculation to be true he would have to hire a moneymancer and maybe a dollamancer full time, perhaps brainwashed. Or he could be a moneymancer himself. (Stanley is not a caster but his Tool seems to allow him to cast a lot of stagemancy, so Charlie doesn't have to be a thinkamancer).
Maybe he can hire warlords, but they won't be any good for city management (there is none) and barbarians probably can't have CWLs. So the Archons' leadership is good enough.

He could hire warlords, conquer a city, put one of them there as a puppet... but as the city is not truely his, he would not be able to produce any interesting unit (definitely no archons) and the regent warlord would be a huge liability.

Meh, there are better ways to rule through proxy. He can be PAID to defend other cities or to conquer them for others. Then be paid back to reconquer it for the original side. And as we saw with Haggar, if he wants anything specific to be done the Dish has enough blackmail potential.

edit: Charlescom as a side would be a huge hoax. One that even archons buy. Another indication, but not a proof, that Charlie is a barbarian is http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -03-19.png

"Charlescomm was formally allied with no side in this battlespace, and so the six of them had taken their turn at dawn." Barbarians always take first turn.

[the_tick_rules]

I think people would know if cities don't belong to Charlie.

[doom3607]

You know, there's the one simple, obvious explanation for what Charlie is, and why he's so afraid of Parson. I'm surprised nobody seems to have got it already.

Parson is Charlie.

At some point in the future, probably during Stanley's final assault on Charlie, Parson, or more likely a subordinate of his, will set up a link to use a very powerful turnamancy spell for some reason. He will then no longer need it, but forget to stop the casting. It will go off just as Parson gets his hands on the Arkendish, and it simultaneously attuning to him and the big turnamancy spell going off will somehow create a very strange turnamancy effect and actually blast Parson backwards in time. That explains why Charlie was trying to get his hands on Parson, even though he didn't know much about him. Or so we thought, anyway... He remembered what happened first time around, and wanted to avoid it this time. But he fails, because the spell created a bit of amnesia about the long term. Thus explaining how he lost, and how he keeps making mistakes dealing with Parson- he doesn't remember not to make them.

[Foolamancer]

You know, there's the one simple, obvious explanation for what Charlie is, and why he's so afraid of Parson. I'm surprised nobody seems to have got it already.

Parson is Charlie.

At some point in the future, probably during Stanley's final assault on Charlie, Parson, or more likely a subordinate of his, will set up a link to use a very powerful turnamancy spell for some reason. He will then no longer need it, but forget to stop the casting. It will go off just as Parson gets his hands on the Arkendish, and it simultaneously attuning to him and the big turnamancy spell going off will somehow create a very strange turnamancy effect and actually blast Parson backwards in time. That explains why Charlie was trying to get his hands on Parson, even though he didn't know much about him. Or so we thought, anyway... He remembered what happened first time around, and wanted to avoid it this time. But he fails, because the spell created a bit of amnesia about the long term. Thus explaining how he lost, and how he keeps making mistakes dealing with Parson- he doesn't remember not to make them.

...That seems... neither simple nor obvious, to tell the truth. In fact, it seems extremely convoluted.

[doom3607]

You know, there's the one simple, obvious explanation for what Charlie is, and why he's so afraid of Parson. I'm surprised nobody seems to have got it already.

Parson is Charlie.

At some point in the future, probably during Stanley's final assault on Charlie, Parson, or more likely a subordinate of his, will set up a link to use a very powerful turnamancy spell for some reason. He will then no longer need it, but forget to stop the casting. It will go off just as Parson gets his hands on the Arkendish, and it simultaneously attuning to him and the big turnamancy spell going off will somehow create a very strange turnamancy effect and actually blast Parson backwards in time. That explains why Charlie was trying to get his hands on Parson, even though he didn't know much about him. Or so we thought, anyway... He remembered what happened first time around, and wanted to avoid it this time. But he fails, because the spell created a bit of amnesia about the long term. Thus explaining how he lost, and how he keeps making mistakes dealing with Parson- he doesn't remember not to make them.

...That seems... neither simple nor obvious, to tell the truth. In fact, it seems extremely convoluted.

Fine, so I'm insane enough to think things that convoluted are simple and obvious. The question is, does it make SENSE? At all?

[Foolamancer]

You know, there's the one simple, obvious explanation for what Charlie is, and why he's so afraid of Parson. I'm surprised nobody seems to have got it already.

Parson is Charlie.

At some point in the future, probably during Stanley's final assault on Charlie, Parson, or more likely a subordinate of his, will set up a link to use a very powerful turnamancy spell for some reason. He will then no longer need it, but forget to stop the casting. It will go off just as Parson gets his hands on the Arkendish, and it simultaneously attuning to him and the big turnamancy spell going off will somehow create a very strange turnamancy effect and actually blast Parson backwards in time. That explains why Charlie was trying to get his hands on Parson, even though he didn't know much about him. Or so we thought, anyway... He remembered what happened first time around, and wanted to avoid it this time. But he fails, because the spell created a bit of amnesia about the long term. Thus explaining how he lost, and how he keeps making mistakes dealing with Parson- he doesn't remember not to make them.

...That seems... neither simple nor obvious, to tell the truth. In fact, it seems extremely convoluted.

Fine, so I'm insane enough to think things that convoluted are simple and obvious. The question is, does it make SENSE? At all?

It might, if it turns out that Turnamancy actually has the ability to alter time. As far as we've seen, it has the power to end the turn and make units swap sides.

And the question isn't really about whether or not it might be true. The real question is whether or not it is true. The best way that we can try to figure that out at the moment is to look at which scenarios seem more likely.

So we have two proposed scenarios:

- Charlie is not Parson; nothing we know contradicts this
- Charlie is Parson; this requires Turnamancy to have powers that we don't know about and which seem entirely arbitrary, that there are actually two Arkendishes in Erfworld at the present time, that Parson for some reason decides to create a mercenary side using only one unit type, and so on.

I think the first scenario seems more likely, personally. But the second could still be true. We need more information to say for sure.

[doom3607]

It might, if it turns out that Turnamancy actually has the ability to alter time. As far as we've seen, it has the power to end the turn and make units swap sides.

And the question isn't really about whether or not it might be true. The real question is whether or not it is true. The best way that we can try to figure that out at the moment is to look at which scenarios seem more likely.

So we have two proposed scenarios:

- Charlie is not Parson; nothing we know contradicts this
- Charlie is Parson; this requires Turnamancy to have powers that we don't know about and which seem entirely arbitrary, that there are actually two Arkendishes in Erfworld at the present time, that Parson for some reason decides to create a mercenary side using only one unit type, and so on.

I think the first scenario seems more likely, personally. But the second could still be true. We need more information to say for sure.

I'll take all of those points in order...

1 & 2) I never said TWO Arkendishes. I'm thinking they get to the dish BEFORE they reach Charlie when storming his base, and Parson touches it right when the spell goes off. Normally nothing would like the time travel bit would happen, but the thing is having... sort of an error. It's already attuned to Parson, but not this particular Parson. I'm guessing attunement leaves some sort of magical marker on both the Arkentool and the person it's attuned to, so the dish is seeing the guy it knows it's attuned too, but he isn't attuned to it. Thus some sort of error that changes how the spell hits him.

3) My guess as for why he'd imitate Charlie is he remembered enough to know when he was when he arrived from asking around about what's going on in the world. He then realized he was at about the time Charlescomm got his side started, and he's attuned to the Arkendish. That would seem to be a pretty clear indication that he is Charlie, to him. And maybe the reason he only got Archons was because that was all he could get, given that he started his side via Arkendish. And then he may have realized that going mercenary was the only safe way to get the resources he needed... thus ensuring history repeats itself.

[Selexor]

I'd agree with that, Doom3607, except that if Parson is truly looping through time and watching himself arrive in Erfworld, then we're saying there is a future-version of Charlie!Parson (Charson!) who is a mercenary in possession of his own side, game-breaking power, and a desire to be insanely rich and invincible. Basically, a hyper-gamer version of Parson who seems to have regained the Sword of Ruthlessness somewhere along the way, or at least learned to mimic its effects.
And really, if that's the case, then I imagine the first thing that Charson would do is contact his younger self and start flinging out pointers, tips, and ways to break Erfworld even more completely to either avoid whatever fate Charson went through, or to ensure that Charson's final victory would be absolute. It's foreknowledge based on previous victory that allows Charson to manipulate Gobwin Knob and Charlescomm from the shadows, effectively allowing him to control the use of three Arkentools. No way in hell would Charson be able to pass up something like that.

The time-loop theory might be possible, like Foolamancer pointed out... and it's a very interesting theory no matter what. But if it's true, then I'd have expected Charson to have taken advantage of the situation long before now.

[doom3607]

Perhaps Charlie, the future Parson, deliberately refuses to change the past. Maybe it's not that he has the Sword of Ruthlessness back, maybe he just remembered himself being that way because in every iteration of the loop he remembers the same thing. Or, for the flip side of the coin, at some future point Parson has to do something so horrible, from his point of view, that it drives him at least slightly insane. Perhaps something like the volcano, only of omnicidal proportions- large enough to put a huge section of Erfworld, with possibly millions of people, to the torch. Gotta know that would send him way around the bend.

[Selexor]

That could work: Charson doesn't want to stop his younger self because he's too damn crazy. So who do we root for in this scenario, Charson or Parson? Young and cocky version who'll grow up to obliterate the world, or insane time-disjointed version who's trying to commit paradox-suicide?

[SomeUnregisteredPunk]

You know, there's the one simple, obvious explanation for what Charlie is, and why he's so afraid of Parson. I'm surprised nobody seems to have got it already.

Parson is Charlie.

At some point in the future, probably during Stanley's final assault on Charlie, Parson, or more likely a subordinate of his, will set up a link to use a very powerful turnamancy spell for some reason. He will then no longer need it, but forget to stop the casting. It will go off just as Parson gets his hands on the Arkendish, and it simultaneously attuning to him and the big turnamancy spell going off will somehow create a very strange turnamancy effect and actually blast Parson backwards in time. That explains why Charlie was trying to get his hands on Parson, even though he didn't know much about him. Or so we thought, anyway... He remembered what happened first time around, and wanted to avoid it this time. But he fails, because the spell created a bit of amnesia about the long term. Thus explaining how he lost, and how he keeps making mistakes dealing with Parson- he doesn't remember not to make them.

Or Charilie is the HippyMancer.
... or in the case of MassEffect2 wild theories... he is the Illusive Man { an virtual man created to embody a group of people.} .... so in this case he is the Magic Kingdom. A single male voice is used to throw everyone else off. She has access to unlimted thinkagrams because she has an unlimited amount of casters to use. The Magic Kingdom is using a massive group of linked casters to control the artifact and is controlled by the Hippymancer. She is trying to change the world so that war is stopped and this helps in her favor. She wants Parson to work for her but w/o his knowledge like all the other peons she has been manipulating. She also runs an effective double blind in Charlies hometown and in the Magic Kingdom so that only a few know the truth.

The problem is that Parson actually made it through the Portals. This means he is something else... an unknown. She is trying to kill him now because she is only trying to fix the world while he may just break it apart.

[doom3607]

Ok, that's just a conspiracy theory.

Also, what if Charson is getting better? Maybe by the time we actually see him he'll be sane again...

[Wrath]

Rather than being a future Parson, I've been wondering if Charlie is another person from "our" world. In many ways he seems to share Parson's outside view of the Erfworld game system, only he has directed that understanding towards sustaining war and keeping himself in business. It would explain why he's simultaneously scared of Parson but has also reached out in something resembling friendship. At first he sees Parson as a peer, but soon realises that Parson is better at war than him.