What the hell happened to this comic

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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby Namegduf » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:46 am

zilfallon wrote:
Godsire wrote:Anyone else have the feeling of almost getting pissed off at the Duel in the Somme comics posted everyday?

I mean, I don't even read them because I just want my erfworld page. I'm very close to setting an alarm on my phone 1.5 years from now only to check back at that time and not trouble myself with hopes of a page every day.


Yes Godsire, I posted about that in the first page, exactly.

well, slow updates never bothered me much, until i saw another comic getting updated, daily. (another comic of the same author, actually)



Duel in the Somme took about two years to write primarily due to being put aside for Erfworld stuff. It was entirely finished before the daily updates started (as said in the news post before the updates started). The update schedule does not mean in any way that Erfworld is being put aside for it.

Apologies if I'm slightly harsh, but while you might feel that way, it's very much an emotional reaction disconnected from any rational reason.
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby zilfallon » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:13 am

Oh sorry, but why did it just happen so, that we started getting 1-2 updates a month the day after Duel in the Somme was announced in Erfworld's main page? And if it didn't take Erfworld's time...

This is about the farthest behind on regular updates I have ever been with Erfworld. There are a lot of reasons, and while I really don't feel like rattling off an excuse list, let me just say that things will get better. That won't happen soon, but it will happen.

"A Duel in the Somme," the 24-page stand-alone comic that I co-wrote with Ben Bova (illustrated by Bill Holbrook), will begin daily updates right here (and at its own site) on August 18th. It is completely done and to the printer. It was a lot of work. More about that when it goes live.


why did Rob wrote that Duel in the Somme took a lot of time and wrote it just after he said he'll tell one of the reasons updates got slower?

Now, i'm not angry or blaming rob or trying to troll etc. But Rob HIMSELF said that Duel in the Somme is one of the reasons of our slow updates.
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby the_tick_rules » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:18 am

Yet they seem to be at the same pace now. I used to think the people complaining about slow pace were just being impatient jerks but I have to say my enthusiasm for erf is truly beginning to fade at this point. I mean like one update a week, it takes months for them to do anything.
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby Sixty » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:09 am

Now it was said that Duel in the Somme was finished when they started putting it up. I do recall the slow down in updates occurring before Duel in the Somme was released (Duel has been up for about a month and the slowness in updates started 2 or 3 months ago). Someone mentioned Duel being on the backburner and taking years to come out though I don't know if a push to finish it might have caused the initial slowness. When Duel started Rob also mentioned that the pace of updates wasn't going to get better right away indicating that there was some other reason for it. Though I imagine Duel in the Somme had to have contributed somewhat in the beginning.

No one is happy about slow updates, though I do wonder what is the root cause. I remember way back Rob listed a bunch of reasons though many of those were short term issues that I doubt are still ongoing (Xin being sick for a week, writer's block (Which I think Rob said wasn't an issue anymore), etc.)
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby Godsire » Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:40 am

More than 2 weeks without a comic update. What the....?
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:18 am

Godsire wrote:More than 2 weeks without a comic update. What the....?


Actually I'm less surprised about that. If I had to predict, I'd say a new comic update will occur on Friday. At noon. For some noon on the planet somewhere.

Next Friday. :P

Kidding aside, I'm none too happy with the update pace. I do understand some things (drawing takes a ton of work, for one), and it really is shameful to have to stoop to whiny feelings of entitlement, but Titans damn it I'm entitled to get my comic fix at a regular schedule. Make it happen.

One question- someone claimed to have asked for an item from the store, and not received it yet. That's, uhm, pretty bad, when was this? What item? Shipping costs? As in, mitigating factors there? I was planning on ordering Book 1 when it became available, I'll rethink that if Erfworld's shop has a tendency for unreliability.
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby CorrTerek » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:09 am

zilfallon wrote:Oh sorry, but why did it just happen so, that we started getting 1-2 updates a month the day after Duel in the Somme was announced in Erfworld's main page? And if it didn't take Erfworld's time...


We've been having slow updates for far longer than Duel in the Somme.

why did Rob wrote that Duel in the Somme took a lot of time and wrote it just after he said he'll tell one of the reasons updates got slower?


Where did he say that? Maybe I'm just missing it, but the section you quoted didn't say anything about Duel in the Somme being one of the problems.

"This is about the farthest behind on regular updates I have ever been with Erfworld. There are a lot of reasons, and while I really don't feel like rattling off an excuse list, let me just say that things will get better. That won't happen soon, but it will happen."

That's all he had to say on the matter. He didn't say he was going to tell us any of them -- he specifically said he didn't want to rattle off a list of excuses. As far as I can tell, based off what you've quoted, Duel in the Somme and slow Erfworld updates are two separate announcements.
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby the_tick_rules » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:43 pm

I'm sure there are good reasons but the problem for erf might be once it gets rolling everyone might not regain interest. Internet fans are fickle, moving on is a potenital danger.
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby zilfallon » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:14 pm

the_tick_rules wrote:I'm sure there are good reasons but the problem for erf might be once it gets rolling everyone might not regain interest. Internet fans are fickle, moving on is a potenital danger.


Well, yes. Devoted fans may not leave, but may be pushed to edge. New readers might just disappear, and tell that "Erfworld? It is damn good, but it isn't being updated i think. Checked 3 times this last 2 weeks." to their friends.
And what's keeping most of the fans here is discussions about topics totally unrelated to Erfworld, which we seem to enjoy, since well, most of us are capable of valid arguments, and having lots of common tastes, (Erfworld has a very...I don't know the word in english to desrcibe it...You know, it's main targets are apperantly gamers who are interested in actually reading something, instead of farming 20 hours a day. Still, that may not be the point but...I just can't describe it correctly, sorry for my lack of english)
fan stories, and forum games. I'm not a new member, but I've started participating in active discussions and forum games recently, after the updates got slower. Before, the comic itself was enough to sustain my urge to see more of this crazy universe.
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby yay » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:44 pm

love it when people complain about free web comics. this is better than people getting panties in a wad about incorrectly drawn raptors in Dr. Mcninja
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby Ansan Gotti » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:29 pm

yay wrote:love it when people complain about free web comics. this is better than people getting panties in a wad about incorrectly drawn raptors in Dr. Mcninja


I note that it is free for you, perhaps. It is not free, however, for the majority of the people who have spoken critically on this issue.
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby Atomic » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:06 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:I note that it is free for you, perhaps. It is not free, however, for the majority of the people who have spoken critically on this issue.
No, it's free for everyone ;)
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby the_tick_rules » Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:14 am

zilfallon wrote:
the_tick_rules wrote:I'm sure there are good reasons but the problem for erf might be once it gets rolling everyone might not regain interest. Internet fans are fickle, moving on is a potenital danger.


Well, yes. Devoted fans may not leave, but may be pushed to edge. New readers might just disappear, and tell that "Erfworld? It is damn good, but it isn't being updated i think. Checked 3 times this last 2 weeks." to their friends.
And what's keeping most of the fans here is discussions about topics totally unrelated to Erfworld, which we seem to enjoy, since well, most of us are capable of valid arguments, and having lots of common tastes, (Erfworld has a very...I don't know the word in english to desrcibe it...You know, it's main targets are apperantly gamers who are interested in actually reading something, instead of farming 20 hours a day. Still, that may not be the point but...I just can't describe it correctly, sorry for my lack of english)
fan stories, and forum games. I'm not a new member, but I've started participating in active discussions and forum games recently, after the updates got slower. Before, the comic itself was enough to sustain my urge to see more of this crazy universe.


I believe the word you were looking for is niche audience.
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby Parsnip » Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:00 am

the_tick_rules wrote:
zilfallon wrote:
the_tick_rules wrote:<snip>... Still, that may not be the point but...I just can't describe it correctly, sorry for my lack of english)...
<snip>


I believe the word you were looking for is niche audience.


Hmm, allow me to suggest the friendlier, happier alternative, "eclectic".
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:18 am

yay wrote:love it when people complain about free web comics. this is better than people getting panties in a wad about incorrectly drawn raptors in Dr. Mcninja


And I love it when people seem to think "free" means half-assed. I'm sure the OSS community loves this attitude as well.

If there's something (a webcomic, a piece of software etc) being offered to an audience, it better be good enough for that audience. Where good means many things, from quality of content to reliable delivery.

Add to this the fact that some webcomics (and other projects offered "free"), Erfworld among them, aim to be (more or less) financially self sustaining. This puts them in a different league than a few scribbles someone posts on their Facebook page from time to time. Erfworld has a business model, as Rob said one time.

However, credit where it's due. We have a new update! Sooner than I expected! YAY!
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby Ansan Gotti » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:30 pm

Agreed, BLAND. And having more stuff to discuss helps keep our focus on the story instead of the update pace, too. :)
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:24 pm

While I would love to have both quality and timeliness, I gladly trade the latter for the former. In my opinion, the quality of the comic has increased since Book 1.

And how many other comics spur discussions about Free Will vs. Determinism, Sex as Procreation vs. Recreation, and a number of other fascinating topics as natural tangents to the discussion of the content of the work? (This is an honest question. If you know of other comics that spur such thought & discussion, please let me know!)

And the Open Source community is filled with a lot of crap. The good stuff just rises to the top. :D (Note that a lot of 'free' software is actually released/enhanced by major corporations, who then generate revenue by supporting the software, or using it to undermine their rivals...)
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:40 pm

MarbitChow wrote:While I would love to have both quality and timeliness, I gladly trade the latter for the former. In my opinion, the quality of the comic has increased since Book 1.


Others might not share that opinion. I find Book 2 to have been rather directionless so far, a perception which is probably influenced less by the text than it is by the pacing. One can really detract from the other.

MarbitChow wrote:And how many other comics spur discussions about Free Will vs. Determinism, Sex as Procreation vs. Recreation, and a number of other fascinating topics as natural tangents to the discussion of the content of the work? (This is an honest question. If you know of other comics that spur such thought & discussion, please let me know!)


OotS, for one. Or any webcomic with a proper forum, as opposed to just a discussion thread below each comic page.


MarbitChow wrote:And the Open Source community is filled with a lot of crap. The good stuff just rises to the top. :D (Note that a lot of 'free' software is actually released/enhanced by major corporations, who then generate revenue by supporting the software, or using it to undermine their rivals...)


Exactly. Free stuff is not created equal, and just because it's free doesn't mean it's not a business. If it's a business (as Erfworld supposedly is, someone please find that interview, I can't look it up now), there's some valid expectations a customer would have. Even if said customer is not forced to pay anything.
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby Tensor » Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:45 pm

BLANDCorporatio, I can't help but laugh, because when looooooooooong ago I first saw your current avatar I thought "I guess he's going for an avatar that will change as the story progresses kinda thing."

Who'd have thunk that it would still be relevant today?

I wonder if she's still on the phone.
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Re: What the hell happened to this comic

Postby zilfallon » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:15 pm

Tensor wrote:BLANDCorporatio, I can't help but laugh, because when looooooooooong ago I first saw your current avatar I thought "I guess he's going for an avatar that will change as the story progresses kinda thing."

Who'd have thunk that it would still be relevant today?

I wonder if she's still on the phone.


Let us pray that he has to change his avatar soon. And let us pray that my avatar includes "It worked!" instead of "It will work."
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