People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

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People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby GaryThunder » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:58 pm

Not everyone, I'll admit. But every time Tramennis makes a decision, there are several vocal people ridiculing him for how stupid he's being, for any number of reasons.

Remember: Tramennis was only promoted to Chief Warlord this morning. He may be a Warlord unit, but his specialty is clearly diplomacy, even when diplomacy isn't apparently the best option, or even possible. From http://www.erfworld.com/2010/10/book-2- ... dates-033/ :

One look at his scrawny frame, and Slately had sent him off to a far-flung campaign to the northeast, not much caring about the outcome.

Tramennis had neither conquered nor fallen on that mission, but had cornered the enemy and opted to negotiate. He returned with a new alliance, including quite a nice little tribute from the former enemy side.


What do we learn from this? Tramennis is a canny general, indeed so, but even when he finds himself in a position of strength ("cornered the enemy") he prefers diplomacy and negotiation over outright slaughter. Him choosing to negotiate in this situation, where to the best of his knowledge he's got GK by the short hairs, them being utterly unable to escape or do any significant damage, is completely within his character. It might not be the tactically best solution, but it's what he would do. He sees the opening salvo of Parson's plan, and does he consider it an attack? No, he immediately interprets it in a diplomatic context. Tramennis isn't thinking "What military use could doing this have?" but "What is he trying to communicate to me through this action?"

Besides, for all of his intelligence, Tramennis is a Royal, with everything that entails. He's very smart, but he's constrained to the same paradigms as the rest of the ruling class. His conversation with Ossomer betrays his notion that he truly does see Royalty as above non-Royals like Stanley. (Perhaps.)
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby Ace » Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:05 pm

Don't bother making a thread about it, the people who pick on Tram have already been called on it, and have subsequently dodged posts by people calling them out, even when it's obvious their position can't be sustained logically.
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby ftl » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:07 am

GaryThunder wrote:Not everyone, I'll admit. But every time Tramennis makes a decision, there are several vocal people ridiculing him for how stupid he's being, for any number of reasons.

Remember: Tramennis was only promoted to Chief Warlord this morning. He may be a Warlord unit, but his specialty is clearly diplomacy, even when diplomacy isn't apparently the best option, or even possible. From http://www.erfworld.com/2010/10/book-2- ... dates-033/ :

One look at his scrawny frame, and Slately had sent him off to a far-flung campaign to the northeast, not much caring about the outcome.

Tramennis had neither conquered nor fallen on that mission, but had cornered the enemy and opted to negotiate. He returned with a new alliance, including quite a nice little tribute from the former enemy side.


What do we learn from this? Tramennis is a canny general, indeed so, but even when he finds himself in a position of strength ("cornered the enemy") he prefers diplomacy and negotiation over outright slaughter. Him choosing to negotiate in this situation, where to the best of his knowledge he's got GK by the short hairs, them being utterly unable to escape or do any significant damage, is completely within his character. It might not be the tactically best solution, but it's what he would do. He sees the opening salvo of Parson's plan, and does he consider it an attack? No, he immediately interprets it in a diplomatic context. Tramennis isn't thinking "What military use could doing this have?" but "What is he trying to communicate to me through this action?"

Besides, for all of his intelligence, Tramennis is a Royal, with everything that entails. He's very smart, but he's constrained to the same paradigms as the rest of the ruling class. His conversation with Ossomer betrays his notion that he truly does see Royalty as above non-Royals like Stanley. (Perhaps.)


Well, it could be because earlier on in the comic, he was being built on as being more than just a diplomat. There were multiple characters calling him clever; he was pondering the meaning of life on Erf in a way that clearly appealed to the readers. There was a lot things that at the time seemed like in-comic signs that he was supposed to be straight-up smarter than the regular Erf warlords, not just different.

It's a case of unfulfilled expectations. If the buildup had led us to believe that he was just another good Erf warlord who happened to specialize in diplomacy rather than combat, I suspect there may have been a little bit less of the backlash.

(I don't disagree with anything you say in the second post-quote section of your post, btw; it's an accurate representation of Tramennis at the moment, as best we know him. I'd just point out that a dozen updates or so ago, just after Tram was done talking to Charlie, these forums would have come up with a much more positive and less nuanced view.)
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby GaryThunder » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:33 pm

I'd just point out that a dozen updates or so ago, just after Tram was done talking to Charlie, these forums would have come up with a much more positive and less nuanced view.


Well, that's just it. Tramennis has always shown himself to be bright but focused in a given direction. True, he successfully called GK's tricks at the bridge, but that's less a case of military genius and more a case of "They just got done showing us that what we see their army as does not necessarily correspond with what it is, and they just prevented us from seeing what they're doing." Basic logic, something Ossomer apparently lacks.

His clever handling of Jillian and Sammy reveals much the same personality. Tramennis is very, very good at diplomacy. This necessarily means that he's good at seeing how people think, and correctly second-guessing even very intelligent people around him. He knows how to coax information out of people and he can read motivations well enough to see the shape of plans before other people do. But for all his skill, he's just not an out-of-the-box thinker. He's stuck in his box, even if it's a very versatile and useful box. He can play Charlie better than most anyone but Parson because he can read between the lines of Charlie's BS - he even conned free information out of him by acting disinterested, how often do you suppose that happens to Charlie?

But when he's presented with a situation that calls for a total inversion of all of his established dogmas and thought processes, Tramennis can't cope. It's not his specialty. He can't second-guess Parson because he knows nothing about Parson, which he's already trying to remedy by wheedling information out of Ossomer and clearly intending to speak to Parson and get a measure of GK's new Chief Warlord himself. Because that's Tramennis's game.

If Tramennis truly knew the sort of orthogonal thinking Parson was capable of, I'm reasonably sure he would never have allowed things to progress so far. While he might not be able to guess Parson's exact plan, if Tramennis knew the way Parson thought, then he, Tramennis, wouldn't allow Parson anywhere near even this much leverage. Remember, Tramennis doesn't believe Charlie's appraisal of Parson, because Tramennis can't help but interpret even Charlie's overtures in the context he's strongest in (and it doesn't help that Charlie is generally untrustworthy, even to a non-hardcore-Royalist like Tramennis). He believes Charlie mainly fears a diplomatic alliance between GK and Jetstone - and why not, with Tramennis calling the shots? Charlie, knowing Tramennis (knows Tramennis), would anticipate him trying to act diplomatically. It's like how we expect Jillian to hog the spotlight and Stanley to screw up yet another halfway decent plan. It's just what these people do.

Bottom line, Tramennis's character has been consistent and well-formed with realistic motivations and thought processes, and I simply won't hear any talk of idiot balls or some such rubbish. He is doing what it makes the most sense for him to do, given who he is.
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby falldowngoboom » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:45 pm

Yeah basically. The problem is most people post as though they are him with all of the information that we know from reading the comic. In that respect, yeah he's an idiot. Going straight off of what he sees, he is a good general and quick to adapt.
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby charles » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:40 am

I guess the one mistake he's making is much the same mistake that Ansom made, and that everyone except Charlie seems to make... He's underestimated Parson A. Gotti.

Charlie tried to warn him and immediately he underestimated Parson on sight. Granted, Charlie is not one to be trusted, particularly when he's providing information for free, but there is some independent evidence he can rely upon. 1. hints of new strategy such as the Dwagon relay Tremannis worked out and replicated, 2. his defeat of Ansom and the RCC despite overwhelming odds and being backed into what should have been a no-win situation.

He was fooled at Expository bridge by the foolamancy on their Dwagons as well. But on the reverse, he saw through the displacement which captured ossomer and started to peel away the missinformation around Charlie and the rest of the situation that hasn't been made clear to his side.
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby oslecamo2 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:22 pm

charles wrote:I guess the one mistake he's making is much the same mistake that Ansom made, and that everyone except Charlie seems to make... He's underestimated Parson A. Gotti.


Charlie also understimated Hamster. Remember book 1?

Hamster: Please don't defeat us now? We'll have some nice fireworks.
Charlie: Well, I could defeat you easily now, but I'll acept that proposal. What's the worst that could happen?
Hamster: hey, I want a fake parley. Mind seting it up for me and not biting your tongue?
Charlie: Sure! Go ahead, I'll let Ansom be betrayed despite he being paying my exorbitant prices!
-Volcano explodes, Charlie loses two dozen high-level archons, they're decrypted revealing his secrets.
Hamster: thanks for leting me win and for the flying magical girls! Oh, and also teaching me how awesome my bracelet is! Sucker!
Charlie: BBBOOOOPPPP!!!


If anyone doesn't understimate Hamster, it's Jillian. She went, activated the super spell, caught Ansom and legged it out of there as fast as she could before Hamster could pull his newest cheese trick. She also advised Trems to don't fool around and FINISH IT! Smart girl.
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby GaryThunder » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:44 pm

Everyone underestimates Parson. Wanda did. Sizemore did. Charlie and Ansom and everyone. (Jillian has never really dealt with Parson and, I assume, is only barely cognizant of his existence beyond his mere status as Chief Warlord. If she even knows that.) Parson is unlike anything Erfworld has ever seen, and there's no basis for comparison to him. It would be as if someone from our world somehow got dropped into a leadership position of a Roman army - or an alien one.
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby kagato23 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:52 pm

oslecamo2 wrote:If anyone doesn't understimate Hamster, it's Jillian. She went, activated the super spell, caught Ansom and legged it out of there as fast as she could before Hamster could pull his newest cheese trick. She also advised Trems to don't fool around and FINISH IT! Smart girl.


I think that's being too nice to Jillian. Not part of the hate train on her, but the super spell wasn't her idea and the rest of her actions were anything but tactically motivated. While taking the chief warlord out of the picture was pretty good, you note she didn't mention anything to Trem about Parson, even though she does in fact know. And probably could have convinced Trem better than Charlie can hope to. In fact, all she did was say "pull back to the city." I don't think she had the heart to say "and croak everybody", even if that is the next logical step.

If it did occur to her to say something like "oh hey, they supposedly got this perfect warlord in reserve, so probably don't wanna let that become a factor", she probably didn't say anything because that would almost certainly lead to Wanda being croaked all the sooner. As it is, I doubt she even put that much thought into it, or she'd have at least acknowledged Charlie when he warned her the boop was about to get real. She's underestimating him as much as anybody. The only people who aren't on Parsons side who aren't underestimating him are those he's booped over hardcore. And even amongst them, there's doubters. Ansom still doesn't fully get it.

If Trem lives through this though, he will.
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby effataigus » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:03 pm

kagato23 wrote:
oslecamo2 wrote:If anyone doesn't understimate Hamster, it's Jillian. She went, activated the super spell, caught Ansom and legged it out of there as fast as she could before Hamster could pull his newest cheese trick. She also advised Trems to don't fool around and FINISH IT! Smart girl.


I think that's being too nice to Jillian. Not part of the hate train on her, but the super spell wasn't her idea and the rest of her actions were anything but tactically motivated. While taking the chief warlord out of the picture was pretty good, you note she didn't mention anything to Trem about Parson, even though she does in fact know. And probably could have convinced Trem better than Charlie can hope to. In fact, all she did was say "pull back to the city." I don't think she had the heart to say "and croak everybody", even if that is the next logical step.

If it did occur to her to say something like "oh hey, they supposedly got this perfect warlord in reserve, so probably don't wanna let that become a factor", she probably didn't say anything because that would almost certainly lead to Wanda being croaked all the sooner. As it is, I doubt she even put that much thought into it, or she'd have at least acknowledged Charlie when he warned her the boop was about to get real. She's underestimating him as much as anybody. The only people who aren't on Parsons side who aren't underestimating him are those he's booped over hardcore. And even amongst them, there's doubters. Ansom still doesn't fully get it.

If Trem lives through this though, he will.


I'm don't believe we know that Jillian knows that Parson exists. Recall that all we know Wanda to have told her is that Wanda was forced to cast a findamancy/lookamancy spell... after a reread, I have my doubts she ever actually mentioned Parson.
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby GaryThunder » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:03 pm

I'm not so sure Jillian knows the first thing about Parson. At the very most, she might know of his existence and status as "Perfect Warlord," because Wanda was clearly shown discussing the summoning spell with Jillian while they were in the dungeons. But I doubt she knows so much as his name, let alone the depth of his tactical knowledge. She's never seen him, never heard him spoken of, and Jillian doesn't strike me as the sort of person who sits around thinking in depth about the various sides' strategic and tactical paradigms.

Edit: Furthermore, even if she knows about Parson, she doesn't know of his current Chief Warlord status. Parson didn't get promoted until after Jillian legged it with Ansom in tow.
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby kagato23 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:15 pm

That's true. Charlie does know about his "perfect warlord" status, which I assumed he learned in part from collaboration with her, though that doesn't mean he shared information back. Though if that's the case, you definitely can't say she's even estimating Parson, let along over or under. :lol:
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby SomeUnregisteredPunk » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:42 pm

Everyone is going to underestimate Parson even if they are informed about his past battles.
They are all going to assume things about him based on their own limited experiences.

There are times when Stanley is astonished that Parson doesn't know basic things about how the world works,
a hobgoblin have remarked how confused he is of Parson due to the questions he asked of him, Charlie himself
has talked to him multiple times and has found that he isn't a normal erfworlder.

If charile knows of the spell used to "create" him... he believes that Parson was popped ... just like everyone else ever.
He probably believes that Parson has more devious mind or access to see things in more than one perceptive because he may be more than one class.

Trem's problem is that he doesn't know anything beyond what a normal erfworlder would know. He wouldn't know about our Earth that Parson seems to be from.
He wouldn't understand our morality or our capability to reason isn't stuck to a tunnel or our job.

Like a turnamancer can probably reason new and great things within his profession but unable to think of ways to use heal spells to torture someone.
While someone like Wanda probably could because of the way she was popped. Or a diplomat perceiving new ways to do something because he is now promoted to chief warlord.
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby oslecamo2 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:04 pm

kagato23 wrote:
oslecamo2 wrote:If anyone doesn't understimate Hamster, it's Jillian. She went, activated the super spell, caught Ansom and legged it out of there as fast as she could before Hamster could pull his newest cheese trick. She also advised Trems to don't fool around and FINISH IT! Smart girl.


I think that's being too nice to Jillian. Not part of the hate train on her, but the super spell wasn't her idea and the rest of her actions were anything but tactically motivated. While taking the chief warlord out of the picture was pretty good, you note she didn't mention anything to Trem about Parson, even though she does in fact know. And probably could have convinced Trem better than Charlie can hope to. In fact, all she did was say "pull back to the city." I don't think she had the heart to say "and croak everybody", even if that is the next logical step.

If it did occur to her to say something like "oh hey, they supposedly got this perfect warlord in reserve, so probably don't wanna let that become a factor", she probably didn't say anything because that would almost certainly lead to Wanda being croaked all the sooner. As it is, I doubt she even put that much thought into it, or she'd have at least acknowledged Charlie when he warned her the boop was about to get real. She's underestimating him as much as anybody. The only people who aren't on Parsons side who aren't underestimating him are those he's booped over hardcore. And even amongst them, there's doubters. Ansom still doesn't fully get it.

If Trem lives through this though, he will.


Actually, Jillian telling Trems about the "perfect warlord", regardless of she knowing him well or not, would be a big mistake.

Why? Because when you're a master diplomat, everything looks like a treaty waiting to be signed. Trems isn't exactly stupid, but he can't stop seeing Hamster as a great diplomacy challenge. Stanley is considered an idiot, a worm, someone not worthy of speaking to. But Hamster's a big juicy target. The true mastermind behind GK's revival. Trems can't ignore such a diplomatic challenge. He'll do everything on his power to speak with him. Including, as we can see, leting him maneuver at will.

Charlie telling Trems of Hamster was actually a major mistake. Before Trems would perhaps try to capture Ossomer and kill everything else whitout a second tought. Ansom was clearly the military brain, Stanley the worm and Wanda the witch were unworthy of his atention.

But when Trems heard of the "perfect warlord", he can't resist piting his diplomatic skills against him. It's at the same time his biggest strenght and weakness right now. He's really good at what he does and he can normally pull out all kinds of profit from negotiating with cornered enemies. But Hamster would rather kill his own troops and pull all kind of stinky cheesy tricks than hold an actual parley.

On the other hand Jillian doesn't spend time with philosophies. She got what she wanted, fulfilled Charlie's initial orders (stalled Wanda and casted Kingworld) and got away from the scene before something went horribly wrong.

Knowing to quit when you're winning instead of waiting untill luck turns against you is a great sign of wisdom.
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby charles » Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:04 pm

True Dat. Charlie did underestimate Parson big time. But he does seem to be the only one who actively doesn't intend to do it again.

*meh* Trem is a lot smarter than the average warlord. No doubt about that. Its cruel to compare him to the likes of Charlie and Parson though.
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby GaryThunder » Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:36 pm

There are times when Stanley is astonished that Parson doesn't know basic things about how the world works,
a hobgoblin have remarked how confused he is of Parson due to the questions he asked of him, Charlie himself
has talked to him multiple times and has found that he isn't a normal erfworlder.


And that, I think, is the key. Nobody learns things in Erfworld. People pop with all of the information they'll ever need already in their minds. Tramennis knew everything he knows now about diplomacy when he was five seconds old.* The result of this is that people are incurious and feel no need to test their boundaries. Heavies can't ride flying mounts, for instance. Every warlord pops knowing this instinctively, so they never try it. It takes someone like Parson to ask "But what if you tried to do it anyway?" That is his single best advantage, referenced repeatedly in one of the text updates:

"What if dwagons could tunnel?" his Lord would posit. "What if ships could travel on land?" And soon, Jack would be projecting a model battle in which dirt-burrowing dwagons clawed like sea serpents at the hulls of great wheeled galleons on grassy plains. Or a simple scenario would play out predictably, and Lord Parson would say, "Okay, now let's give all two thousand of those infantry the ability to cast like Archons, and see what happens." Marvelous. Marvelous.


That is the difference between a very good warlord and a Perfect Warlord.


*Okay, I may be overgeneralizing a bit. Commanders like casters and warlords certainly seem to be able to accept and interpret new information, but it's all tactical information, or personality information. Nobody ever thinks to question their knowledge of Erfworld's physics or rules, unlike in our world where even the immutable laws of physics are constantly being reinterpreted and re-examined.
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby oslecamo2 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:07 pm

GaryThunder wrote:*Okay, I may be overgeneralizing a bit. Commanders like casters and warlords certainly seem to be able to accept and interpret new information, but it's all tactical information, or personality information.


Well, we do see other warlords doing that, just in a smaller scale.

-Ansom pulled out the "Dance Dance Revolution" combo on the GK assault by combining his leadership with the archons, something not even Hamster could predict.

-Jack comments how the King of FAQ loved thinking debates, riddles, charades and philosophy.

-Trems does goes into philosophycal mode wondering about "music" and "poetry" when he's still trapped in the bubble gum and kingsworld hadn't been cast yet.

GaryThunder wrote:Nobody ever thinks to question their knowledge of Erfworld's physics or rules, unlike in our world where even the immutable laws of physics are constantly being reinterpreted and re-examined.

On the other, do erfworlders even have time to ask such questions? There's not exactly vacations in Erfworld. You work from dawn to nightfall, and you can consider yourself lucky if you survive more than a year worth of turns. Be it fighting, casting, marching, planning future battles or taking care of your side's finances, free time is a very precious commodity. And I bet most erfworlded would rather get laid/drunk with said free time than to wonder how the world works.

Most warlords die soon after being popped due to bad luck or sacrificed in the endless meatgrinder. The warlords that do make to higher level are kinda too busy planning how to keep themselves alive.

Hamster had twenty years to develop learning skills in the real world. Nobody in Erfworld had such luck. As you can see from FAQ, if you spend too much time thinking in Erfworld a "dumb" Warlord like Stanley will sooner or later come at your doorstep and trample all over your thinking. Brawns over brain is favored in Erfworld.
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby SomeUnregisteredPunk » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:28 pm

Is this why charlie is Hamster's most dangerous opponent? Because unlike the other erfworlders he has had time to ponder things other than combat?

He is in a relatively safe location surrounded by beings that love him almost like an addiction.
He had an almost completely flawless business model before Hamster's popping.
He never had to worry that one of his warlords or heirs may try to kill him because he had none.

but then again Trem did use a relay system to cheat on movement costs to talk to Ossamer back in the summer updates. So maybe certain erfowrlders have questioned reality to figure out new ways to battle. or in the Hippiemancer POv... new ways to create peace. They may be questioning reality based around their own limited POV. While Hamster still has no limitation because he doesn't inherently know how the world works.
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby tribble » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:51 am

oslecamo2 wrote:
GaryThunder wrote:*Okay, I may be overgeneralizing a bit. Commanders like casters and warlords certainly seem to be able to accept and interpret new information, but it's all tactical information, or personality information.


Well, we do see other warlords doing that, just in a smaller scale.

-Ansom pulled out the "Dance Dance Revolution" combo on the GK assault by combining his leadership with the archons, something not even Hamster could predict.
.

The other points are very, very valid, but this is one I'm not sure about. For all that we know about the DDR combo, it isn't new. Parson hasn't heard of it, and neither has his cabinet, but his cabinet is comprised of casters, not dance-fighters. Ansom happens to know a chess move that Parson hasn't seen, essentially an En Passant capture move. How did you find out about En Passant? Either by losing a pawn, like Parson, or by looking it up, like, well, me, for lack of an in-story example. :P
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Re: People pick on Tramennis way too much around here...

Postby oslecamo2 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:49 am

SomeUnregisteredPunk wrote:Is this why charlie is Hamster's most dangerous opponent? Because unlike the other erfworlders he has had time to ponder things other than combat?

He is in a relatively safe location surrounded by beings that love him almost like an addiction.
He had an almost completely flawless business model before Hamster's popping.
He never had to worry that one of his warlords or heirs may try to kill him because he had none.


That's all true, but you forgot the main advantage of Charlie that makes that possible. The Arkendish. He can afford to own a single city and then use and abuse thinkmancy to control his archon fleets at distance, while eavesdroping the other sides and making sure he always picks fights he can win, while observing and learning from whatever moments of genius his oponents may have.

Charlie is the oldest arkentool user we know off. He has clearly a big level of mastery over it. Whitout it, he wouldn't have fanatical archons neither the supreme intelegence network on Erfworld neither could afford to don't have warlords/allied tribes that may try to backstab him. And who knows if the Arkendish doesn't literally makes him smarter? Maggie had "refresh" spells to keep Parson's mind running back in Book 1, Charlie probably has an even stronger veersion.

Basically, it's not a big suprise that the smartest Erfworlder is the one who attunned to the Thinkmancy Tool.

tribble wrote:The other points are very, very valid, but this is one I'm not sure about. For all that we know about the DDR combo, it isn't new. Parson hasn't heard of it, and neither has his cabinet, but his cabinet is comprised of casters, not dance-fighters. Ansom happens to know a chess move that Parson hasn't seen, essentially an En Passant capture move. How did you find out about En Passant? Either by losing a pawn, like Parson, or by looking it up, like, well, me, for lack of an in-story example.

Wanda sure knows how to dance-fight. Maggie is a thinkmancer. And Stanley is a rocker. I'm pretty sure that if it was a "classic" tactic, then either of the mancers would would know it and warn Hamster.

Jetstone's forces on the other hand are known for not dance-fighting. And Ansom doesn't have a permanent thinkmancer or archons. Plus even his subordinates had no idea what he was gonna pull off.

Sofa-King dude: Sending unled infantry on a dance fight? This is madness!
Ansom: Madness? THIS! IS! DISCO!
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