How will Parson bring about peace on Erf?

[wrecan]

That would be interesting. Parson gets everyone to gang up on him, unifying them. Then he hands out copies of Summon Perfect Warlord scrolls to everyone and tells them that if any side is about to be obliterated to give him a call and he will kick everyone's ass again until they unite once more. Then he has some caster use Jeftichew's scroll to end him back to Stupid-World, his job done.

[Saladman]

Honestly Ive been wondering why Parson hasn't brought more science to erfworld, our highest levels of tech wouldn't be something he could create of coarse, but some of the tech above erfwould's he could definatly produce, if not by himself he could at least get those with fabrication abilities to help

There's an interesting piece in one of the text updates where Parson, talking to Jack about the tri-mancer link, remembers having done trigonometry, but not only doesn't remember how now, but isn't even quite sure what it is anymore. "Something to do with triangles, based on the name? I'm not sure." (Or words to that effect, no time now to go back through.) In any case, to some extent it seems Erfworld is acting on his thought processes, making him a "unit", probably not in a way that impedes his gamer instincts, but perhaps enough to prevent a Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court solution.

[Saladman]

Its likely cities do have income of some kind, since the real value of Orgchart was the rye fields adjoining it (could only be an upkeep offset and not actual schmuckers though), but its almost certainly fixed, that's how that tends to work in certain games. So I agree with the point already made, there's a strong incentive to build above your upkeep limit and go on the warpath for the fund-razing income, before someone else does the same to you. An inefficiency mechanic is also likely, to explain the point of diminishing returns mentioned by characters, even on a side with Decrypted.


My general guess is Gobwin Knob does get all the arkentools, that Stanley and Wanda are roughly correct about that Fate (except Charlie may be forced to cooperate rather than conquered outright), and that Parson uses those or directs their users to rewrite the rules of the world/change the physics of the world to allow positive upkeep in some way. Specifically, I'm guessing he creates or unlocks "citizen" or worker units to fill those empty cities and buildings. Units can already mine, farm, forage or hunt for upkeep, though the benefit seems limited except with mining, so there's precedent. Sizemore could be big in this scenario, either directly with an Arkenshovel, or indirectly as an expert on soil and farming.

[wrecan]

There's an interesting piece in one of the text updates where Parson, talking to Jack about the tri-mancer link, remembers having done trigonometry, but not only doesn't remember how now, but isn't even quite sure what it is anymore. "Something to do with triangles, based on the name? I'm not sure." (Or words to that effect, no time now to go back through.) In any case, to some extent it seems Erfworld is acting on his thought processes, making him a "unit", probably not in a way that impedes his gamer instincts, but perhaps enough to prevent a Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court solution.

I don't think it was supposed to be implied that Erfworld is making Parson forget Earth-science. I think it was just Parson admitting he wasn't very good at math. The exchange is here.

"Jack, do you remember what you did... to project the battle table... when you were linked up?" he asked between breaths, as they plodded slowly upward. Last flight. Last flight.

"I remember doing it, Lord. But I don't remember how. If that makes sense." Jack frowned quizzically. "Does it? I often have trouble..."

But Parson understood. "Yeah. Sure," he said. "Like, I remember doing trigonometry in high school. But I'm not sure I could explain what that even is, now."

"Yes!" said the Foolamancer excitedly. "And do you feel the ache?"

"Ache?"

"The terrible feeling," said Jack. "That you've lost some grand, Titanic capability you can no longer grasp."

"With trigonometry? Um... I don't know," said Parson. They topped the landing at last. He leaned on the stone wall for a moment and looked at his bracer. "I probably should, if I'm supposed to do Mathamancy. But I forget what kind of math it even was." He strained to remember. "Something to do with triangles? Or is that just the name fooling me?"

"Names can be important," said Jack, stepping lightly on to the landing. He looked Parson in the eye, almost gravely. "And fools, and triangles, too."

[drachefly]

It's hard to believe that someone who's A) done trigonometry, and B) is good enough at math to be able to tabletop game fantastically well will forget enough about trigonometry to forget what it is.

[Sixty]

He says he isn't sure he could explain what it is exactly, not that he has forgotten everything about it. More like he might remember bits and pieces like sin, cos, and tan being important but might not remember how to use them in any meaningful way. It is harder to explain something than it is to remember anything about it.

[drachefly]

On the other hand, it's easier to remember what a thing is than any other fact about it. What is trigonometry? The study of angles, with a focus on triangles, especially right triangles. Even if you can only remember the first part of that sentence, you've gotten to the essence of what it is.

"But I forget what kind of math it even was." He strained to remember. "Something to do with triangles?

This is more than difficulty in teaching.

[Unclever title]

On the other hand, it's easier to remember what a thing is than any other fact about it. What is trigonometry? The study of angles, with a focus on triangles, especially right triangles. Even if you can only remember the first part of that sentence, you've gotten to the essence of what it is.

"But I forget what kind of math it even was." He strained to remember. "Something to do with triangles?

This is more than difficulty in teaching.

Yeah, that's not necessarily true. Case in point, I used to use trigonometry (or more accurately functions and relationships derived from trigonometry rather than the basics of trig) on a regular basis, all throughout college from which I just recently graduated. Back when that page was posted I read it and I had to stop and think of what trigonometry was in words. I knew what it was in experience, but hadn't had to define it in a long time. Certainly my explanation of it would not have included that sentence there that you posted. Realistically it would be more like: "Something to do with triangles, and angles, and how to determine them by the lengths of sides." But that's because I've been using it for years and took an active interest in math mostly before and during and a little bit after high school.

Parson, on the other hand, had been working at Kinkos for a while having already gone through college (or skipping it entirely? Probably not). He hasn't had to deal with trigonometry at all since high school, and if he had little interest in it then, it's possible he may have forgotten the point of it entirely (especially considering that in high school it can be difficult to see the point of math at all). I think typical mental-atrophy can account for that.

[drachefly]

You can't build a case in point around someone who fits the opposing case. Let's find a serious tabletop gamer who wears a calculator watch and is not confident of his/her ability to define trigonometry given any amount of time.

[Keldaria]

You can't build a case in point around someone who fits the opposing case. Let's find a serious tabletop gamer who wears a calculator watch and is not confident of his/her ability to define trigonometry given any amount of time.

ok soo i must admit I'm a tad lazy today and didn't read more than a few post here, but that said I can't help but wonder how we got from a discussion on "Parson will bring peace to Erfworld by X" to a discussion on how someone does or does not have the ability to define trigonometry =P. You guys are just silly and now you've really peaked my interest to the point where I have to go back and read everything cause I want to know how this transition happened =P.

At any rate, not to derail you discussion on trigonometry, I figured I'd comment on the OP.

In my opinion the way parson is supposed to bring peace to erfworld is by breaking every rule he can till he eventually breaks the system all together. While that might seem to be a silly way to bring peace, my thoughts on this are if he breaks enough of the system then maybe he can eventually break upkeep and other rules which are the primary driving factor behind the war's in erfworld. If sides no longer have negitive upkeeps requiring them to conquer to maintain then peace will be much easier to obtain. Plus who knows, maybe uniting all the arkentools would allow the wielder's the ability to modify the rules / laws that govern erfworld the same way the titans did at its creation in order to promote a more peaceful exsistance.

[Unclever title]

You can't build a case in point around someone who fits the opposing case. Let's find a serious tabletop gamer who wears a calculator watch and is not confident of his/her ability to define trigonometry given any amount of time.

My misuse of the expression then. It's certainly not the first expression I've misused. I was talking more about general mental atrophy, anyway.

If could recall a specific subset of a subject from high school that I was barely interested in and no longer remember how to define, I'd use that as an example. Unfortunately nothing suitable comes to mind. Likely, if there is something then I've also forgotten the name of that subset of a subject. The subject it likely would have belonged in would be social studies or geography, but those would be bad examples as those deal more with teaching facts than teaching skills.

My point is that I don't think that Pason's lack of trig knowledge is evidence of Erf causing Parson to forget things about his former life, thus evidence that Erf is trying to make him into more of a "unit". It seems too normal to me.

[drachefly]

It would be good to have more evidence, sure.

[goodmorning]

I was thinking about this today, so I went to see if there was a thread about it.

I think the ArkenTools together can be used to create the zero-upkeep kingdom. Just take the tools that we have, and you've got most of the 'puzzle', as Parson called it. Parson's thoughts about the zero-upkeep kingdom centred on the idea of harvesting heavies for food, and perhaps trading in that food for further money. One of the main problems he saw was that you would still need a defensive capacity.

A side with just the 3 Arkentools we know of so far could do the following:

1) Arkenhammer can tame dwagons. Dwagons are heavy mounts (and it is heavies and mounts that can be harvested for food). It is reasonable to assume that of all the creatures to harvest food from, dwagons are amongst the most fruitful. Especially with the fast movement techniques that Parson developed with dwagons, it shouldn't be overly difficult to get enough dwagons per turn to feed at least a single city. Throw in a Dittomancer-Luckamancer linkup, and I'm sure you could boost this capability immensely.

2) The Arkenpliers provide you with the ultimate defensive force, as it requires zero-upkeep. Defense = solved.

3) The Arkendish is just plain useful. As has been demonstrated, it is the ultimate tool of the businessman, as you can make deals with anyone, anytime, for food, troops, or whatever. Combined with the fast dwagon movement, deliveries can be made within the same turn anywhere in the world, potentially. It can also identify and monitor threats to the kingdom.

The problem with this, of course, is that to trade you must have other sides existing to trade with, which continues the possibility of war. To stop war, everyone must be on one side. I'm not sure how to expand the capacity which the Arkenhammer provides, but perhaps the fourth Arkentool will provide a solution.

Thus ends my theory.

[TokraZeno]

Magic! No, wait, they've already got magic.

Science!

Honestly Ive been wondering why Parson hasn't brought more science to erfworld, our highest levels of tech wouldn't be something he could create of coarse, but some of the tech above erfwould's he could definatly produce, if not by himself he could at least get those with fabrication abilities to help

I suspect that fabrication is limited to what the user can understand. Parson would need to explain stuff to Zoopa like he did for the picnic basket. However, complicated technologies that could actually give an advantage like a gun, cannon etc...might not able to be comprehended by the twoll. Plus, there's the issue that erfworlders may not be able to use it. They'd require ammo, (and as a result upkeep) whilst probably also requiring someone be 'mounted' in order to use. If you get purples as heavy, living siege I don't think they'd bother.

If you were going to talk tech with someone, you'd probably be better off talking to a caster. Stuffamancer would be best bet I'd think.