Charlie = GM?

[Thunder]

no the burden of proof exists not only in law suits, but rather it is there for all arguments.

in any argument the burden of proof rests on the affirmative, or generally which ever side is proposing something new.

[elrolfe]

What if Charlie is a fallen Titan?

[Afjord]

What if Charlie is a fallen Titan?

Two things. One, I will propably Egg Robs house... Two, it would explain why he is trying to "balance" the game by removing the gamebreaker aka Parson.
I still think that he is just scared shitless by Parson, and that he is unhappy about being put into the same (figurative) box as the other attuned, thereby ruining his business and his income.

[ShirKhan]

no the burden of proof exists not only in law suits, but rather it is there for all arguments.

in any argument the burden of proof rests on the affirmative, or generally which ever side is proposing something new.

... which is why I said

So the burden of proof is on both sides.

since both sides are proposing something new. How's your argument different from mine?

[Thunder]

the universe is real is something new?

[ShirKhan]

the universe is real is something new?

At least it hasn't been proven yet.

[Thunder]

if you want to bother being a skeptic to that degree then the entire argument, rather any argument becomes just a waste of everyone elses time. if you do not accept some basic principles you could essentially claim that any point any other side makes could potentially be wrong because everything could be false because even logic and reasoning and there very existence could be the opposite of what they think it is and no way to prove (up to your expectations) otherwise.

Yes im sure you had fun taking a philosophy class somewhere that mentioned that dabbled in the skeptics and have been waiting to blast out what you think is some great revelation to the rest of the world, but when you bring up such a stupid degree of it your more accurate to just come out and say hey i dont think im winning the argument so im taking my ball and going home, and also this stalemate that im generating results in my win because i initiated it.

[Shusagi]

Yes im sure you had fun taking a philosophy class somewhere that mentioned that dabbled in the skeptics and have been waiting to blast out what you think is some great revelation to the rest of the world, but when you bring up such a stupid degree of it your more accurate to just come out and say hey i dont think im winning the argument so im taking my ball and going home, and also this stalemate that im generating results in my win because i initiated it.

Highlighted your spelling and grammar mistakes for you. I don't think it's your fault, the anger you're feeling over that philosophy class you failed in college is clearly impairing your typing abilities, so I thought I'd lend you a hand.

At least it hasn't been proven yet.

I'd say that the fact that we saw Parson's friends' reactions to his disappearance proves that he did really disappear, and the fact that we saw Erfworld existing before Parson showed up proves that it's real. But the fact that the physics are that of a game and everything is based on puns forces me to acknowledge that it <i>might</i> not be real, but I think right now the evidence is pointing towards that it does.

[MarbitChow]

Yes im sure you had fun taking a philosophy class somewhere that mentioned that dabbled in the skeptics and have been waiting to blast out what you think is some great revelation to the rest of the world, but when you bring up such a stupid degree of it your more accurate to just come out and say hey i dont think im winning the argument so im taking my ball and going home, and also this stalemate that im generating results in my win because i initiated it.

Highlighted your spelling and grammar mistakes for you. I don't think it's your fault, the anger you're feeling over that philosophy class you failed in college is clearly impairing your typing abilities, so I thought I'd lend you a hand.

Guys: please remember Rule #1 of the forums: Don't be a dick. Feel free to attack each others' arguments to your heart's content, but be polite about it, and don't start attacking each other.
Now shake hands, go back to your corners, grab a quick gulp of Gatorade and come back out fighting!

[Afjord]

And acknowledge that not everyone is from an english speaking country (myself included)
You can't expect everyone to be a straight A english student, and pointing out others spelling errors is like throwing the towel in the ring and saying "i've run out of arguments and points here guys"

Thank you

[Shusagi]

Yes im sure you had fun taking a philosophy class somewhere that mentioned that dabbled in the skeptics and have been waiting to blast out what you think is some great revelation to the rest of the world, but when you bring up such a stupid degree of it your more accurate to just come out and say hey i dont think im winning the argument so im taking my ball and going home, and also this stalemate that im generating results in my win because i initiated it.

Highlighted your spelling and grammar mistakes for you. I don't think it's your fault, the anger you're feeling over that philosophy class you failed in college is clearly impairing your typing abilities, so I thought I'd lend you a hand.

Guys: please remember Rule #1 of the forums: Don't be a dick. Feel free to attack each others' arguments to your heart's content, but be polite about it, and don't start attacking each other.
Now shake hands, go back to your corners, grab a quick gulp of Gatorade and come back out fighting!

I don't intend to discuss anything with anybody as rude as he is. Would you argue with those foaming-at-the-mouth commenters on youtube? Me neither.

And acknowledge that not everyone is from an english speaking country (myself included)
You can't expect everyone to be a straight A english student, and pointing out others spelling errors is like throwing the towel in the ring and saying "i've run out of arguments and points here guys"

Thank you

Again, I wasn't actually arguing with him at all. I actually agreed with his premise that Erfworld was real. I just don't intend on discussing anything with anybody as rude as he is, so the only response I could give other than to ignore him completely was to indicate to him my distaste. If he comes back with an apology for being so rude and innapropriate, I'll be happy to engage him in discussion. But so far he's only proven that he's unwilling to be civil. I would have just not responded to him at all, but his post was so offensive I felt I needed to publicly state how I felt about it, to at least let others (who hopefully felt the same) know they were in the same boat.

Edit: And just to clarify, in case anyone wasn't reading the last page or so of the thread carefully, it wasn't that Thunder disagreed with me. Thunder disagreed with someone else. My response to him had nothing to do with the argument and everything to do with him attacking someone else.

[Thunder]

Guys: please remember Rule #1 of the forums: Don't be a dick. Feel free to attack each others' arguments to your heart's content, but be polite about it, and don't start attacking each other.
Now shake hands, go back to your corners, grab a quick gulp of Gatorade and come back out fighting!

yes i guess i did react rather childishly, so i apologize for attacking you rather than your points

as for my spelling and poor grammar, i never have excelled at these points, and apparently am even worse at them when arguing with someone else, coincidentally enough, who took the extreme skeptics stance during our argument

The only thing i should have made is that i detest the skeptics position in almost any debate as i find that people who bring it up have consistently used it to end a debate they are not happy with. The same way that a child takes the ball and goes home ensuring that no other may play

[Shusagi]

I can agree that the extreme skeptic viewpoint is annoying. If somebody argues "there's no way we can know anything" then there's no point in even arguing at all.

I think the idea that Erfworld might not be real isn't too skeptic, however, simply because it's such an illogical world based on puns and game physics. But I agree that the current evidence points towards it being real, and I personally agree that it is real. I don't think that we can give anything more than opinions though, since there's no way to prove either one without waiting for the story to continue to a point where it's proven.

[ShirKhan]

The only thing i should have made is that i detest the skeptics position in almost any debate as i find that people who bring it up have consistently used it to end a debate they are not happy with.

I recommend to stay far away from mathematicians, then. You will find that "uncertain until proven" is canon there.

That aside, the debate actually was started with the extreme skeptic viewpoint, so it's not exactly fair to claim that people are using it to end it.

[MarbitChow]

I recommend to stay far away from mathematicians, then. You will find that "uncertain until proven" is canon there.

Even mathematicians have assumptions - things they all agree are true without proof. The existence of a point is required to build the logical structure of geometry, for example.
Let's agree that 'Erfworld is real for the sake of argument' is an assumption that we're all agreed on, and continue from there.

[ShirKhan]

Even mathematicians have assumptions - things they all agree are true without proof. The existence of a point is required to build the logical structure of geometry, for example.

Those we call "definitions". We don't assume that points exist, we define that points exist.

Though I will grant you that we believe in Zermelo, Fraenkel and Choice. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zermelo%E2%80%93Fraenkel_set_theory)

Edit: Holy shit, I just learned that we mathematicians are even weird enough to question the existence of mathematics itself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_mathematics#Contemporary_schools_of_thought
Now that's skepticism.

Let's agree that 'Erfworld is real for the sake of argument' is an assumption that we're all agreed on, and continue from there.

This discussion is so far off-topic already that you will not save it any more by pointing back to Erfworld.

[dstorrs]

* Barely anything is known about Charlie. Even most of his archons haven't seen him face to face yet.

This is a Charlie's Angel's reference. The Archons are angel-like units (read the description from when Parson interviewed them).