Erfworld Naval Battle Theorycraft [Speculation]

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Erfworld Naval Battle Theorycraft [Speculation]

Postby dblmagus » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:14 am

We know that Sea battle and Naval Fighting exist within Erfworld, but only barely and never really utilized within the story as I can remember it. What we have seen, was relating to the city of Haggar.

"This is a current view of the City of Haggar, Prince Sammy. The stationed complement in your capital is a bit meager, isn't it? Only one-hundred-ninety infantry, mostly on the outer walls, eighteen heavy units, fifteen small flyers, two warlords, two casters, and seven courtiers. Seaside, you have two level two vessels and a level four, with an available complement of seventy-five infantry, seven small flyers, one heavy flyer, and one more warlord."

Charlie continued. "Available within one turn's move would be three heavy flyers, twenty-one small flyers, sixteen infantry and no warlords, plus one more level three vessel with twenty four infantry. The next unit the city will pop is a non-heir Royal warlord, in nine more turns. Congratulations in advance, by the way. What do you think of this intelligence assessment so far?"


So, we see that Vessels have a level, it also can carry troops, and a good number of them at that including fliers and infantry.

What then therefore is Naval battle in Erfworld? Does sinking the ship lead to the death of its crew by virtue of drowning? Is there only ranged combat available without boarding the other ship? Is there Ramming to consider, and the onboard weaponry of Cannons, Arbalests and Catapults? Hell, are Units on board the ship any use in a naval battle, or are the ships stats the only thing that matters (with of course the bonus from leadership).

I just thought it was a neat concept to discuss and start poking at since we're a long way from it being any issue within the comic (Gobwin and Spacerock are not port cities after all). Well that, and the ideas started to pop in my head after the thoughts of the Terrain alteration (hey, if Parson builds up some water ways by getting Sizemore to reshape stuff, it could change combat options a lot, course he could just get Land Boats like he Gamed with our dearest foolamancer).

Oh, and of course Barbarian water living tribes. There may be merfolk, or Leviathans, or any other native wild life. Could be some sea dwagons out there for Stanley to tame with his arkenhammer ^_^
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Re: Erfworld Naval Battle Theorycraft [Speculation]

Postby ftl » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:50 pm

Sea dwagons would be awesome!

Imagine - Stanley charging into battle on the back of a giant sea serpent. Comedy gold.

I'm going to guess that the mechanics are gonna be a little weird. Falling into the water, whether by having your ship sunk or something, would count as something like a fall, with a chance of croaking. It's gonna be weird because the chance isn't going to be 100%, so some units might end up just sort of floating all night and having another chance of croaking on their next turn, etc.
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Re: Erfworld Naval Battle Theorycraft [Speculation]

Postby dblmagus » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:00 pm

Well we don't really know of any drowning mechanics to be honest. We know at least that the ground units couldn't cross the river hex at the battle of the bridge however. This would sorta imply that they Can't swim, or at least that it was a horrible horrible idea to do so. Its possible that Swim is a special like Flight is, and only certain units possess it.
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Re: Erfworld Naval Battle Theorycraft [Speculation]

Postby Katana » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:33 pm

Ground troops wouldn't cross a river without a bridge support unit to open up a path across it. I suspect that a Naval unit that disembarks troops (like Marines) would be able to travel on a hex next to a ground hex, where as a seafaring naval unit would need a 1 hex buffer from the nearest ground hex. This would work for those ships that are flatbottom vs. keel type.

Also of course, there would be a absolute need to carry the story, or perhaps Parson is able to create new unit types as needed by a Warlord.
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Re: Erfworld Naval Battle Theorycraft [Speculation]

Postby dblmagus » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:59 pm

It might fall under a Twoll's fabrication ability (they can make small things) or a Dollamancers ability to create Accessories. Though both of those cases would be more Personal flotation device level than a full on vessel. Course, they may need special terrain around them to allow creation of a type. For example, no boats without Water next to it. Would be amusing if the Lava Lake allowed for a boat that could sale on lava and the like.

Though since flyers need to ground themselves at the end of their move, you could always set up boats to let you leapfrog across large sections of water easily [The Dwagon relay for example]. I used to do that in Civilization 3, set my Carriers the Move of my plane out from the water, so the plane could land and then fly from there afterwards.
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Re: Erfworld Naval Battle Theorycraft [Speculation]

Postby cloudbreaker » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:23 am

We know that boats have levels, but it may not necessarily be the same kind of levels as living units. It could be more like city levels. Stronger, tougher, and/or bigger ships might have a higher level, and they might be upgradable. Hope we get to see some water units in action sometime.

I don't think Gobwin Knob razed and rebuilt every city they conquered, so they may have a port city popping water units right now (or maybe even a non-port city if the water units are amphibious).
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Re: Erfworld Naval Battle Theorycraft [Speculation]

Postby ftl » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:26 am

dblmagus wrote:
Though since flyers need to ground themselves at the end of their move,



I'm pretty sure this isn't true. In Book 1, Parson had all the dwagons end turn over a lake, and when Jillian found them they were in the air, circling.
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Re: Erfworld Naval Battle Theorycraft [Speculation]

Postby dblmagus » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:21 am

Yeah I remembered that after I had posted and started driving away and then never got around to fixing it. Same example applies to what just happened in Spacerock where the turn forcibly ended and they had to use the Fall Hack.

But yeah, its possible that GK is currently producing water units at a city like that. At one point on the forums i think there was a Map, someone had put together, but I can't seem to find it with a quick search. But i don't think anything officially was stated one way or another in comic about that.
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Re: Erfworld Naval Battle Theorycraft [Speculation]

Postby charles » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:35 am

SWIMMING:
I suspect that if you're not a water capable unit (or underwater capable) then either 1, you sink like a stone and croak if you "fall" in a water hex (most units wear armor anyway) or 2, you are seriously disadvantaged and need to be rescued from the water or will croak in the next turn.

Still... It makes me wonder if the Dwagons could have landed in the water hex and simply remained on the surface or even launched back into the air at will.

I know that if water was that good I'd be aiming to build a moat around my city or even change the majority of hexes to water hexes around it, if possible.

POSSIBLE UNITS:

Sea monkeys come to mind if we're looking at real world references.

Gold Fish, Rolladucks (Amphibious), pirates (presumably barbarians that pop in a water/ocean hex), Sharks with Freakin' Laser Beams (natural shockamancy).

SHIPS:

I like the idea that their levels are based on cities to a certain extent (i.e. fixed) Makes a lot of sense. Then again, maybe it's something closer to siege engines, or maybe even siege engines have levels *shrug*. So presumably you can simply pop them in a port city, or maybe they are built over time by a certain type of caster or casters (maybe even natural fabrication of some units). Whatever the case, its unlikely they'd gain levels from any kind of experience unless they were some special kind of living vessel.

Presuming they don't have gunpowder and mancers aren't powering them up, then they'd either have complements of archers, ballista, catapults and/or rams. Ballista could either be aimed at weak points, such as the rudder, or used with ropes to hook a ship and bring it in closer for boarding. Catapults obviously throw either heavy rocks or burning material at the ship and it's sails. Archers can pepper the deck with arrows, possibly fire arrows. Rams can have the obvious affect of damaging a ship severely and sinking it.

Beyond that you might be getting into some natural mancy that allows he ships to throw fire or water, Heck, maybe they do have some natural shockamancy stored in them which can be released and directed by a caster (much like garrison towers).

AIRSHIPS:

Yep, get a weirdomancer and you've got a flying ship I reckon. Surely such a thing would be full of awesomesauce!
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