4th arkentool speculation

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4th arkentool speculation

Postby fjolnir » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:16 am

Could it be at all possible that the 4th arkentool is the Arkenstone at Hobbitm and it being a semipermanent item similar to the dish held by Charlie?
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby Maldeus » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:37 pm

I don't generally think of rocks as being tools. What makes you think Hobbittm's got it?

Also, Sizemore with the ArkenShovel is considered the most likely fourth Arkentool. Evidently one of the earliest patents for a shovel went to someone named Sizemore.
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby raphfrk » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:12 pm

Maldeus wrote:I don't generally think of rocks as being tools. What makes you think Hobbittm's got it?


Stones are arguably one of the earliest tools. There was a whole age based on time :). Though, granted, they were often building materials for tools, but they could also be used for throwing and hitting things with.

From the wiki:

The Arkenstone was the name of a large and valuable dwarven gemstone in J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit.


Also, Sizemore with the ArkenShovel is considered the most likely fourth Arkentool. Evidently one of the earliest patents for a shovel went to someone named Sizemore.


A stone could also be linked to dirtamancy.
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby Maldeus » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:03 am

Yes, but a stone wouldn't be a shovel. No one named Sizemore was ever given the patent to rocks. I don't think you can patent rocks. It sounds like an excellent scam, though, guess I could try it sometime.

Also, I knew I'd heard the ArkenWhatever thing somewhere before.
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby fjolnir » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:41 pm

Well I put it up because Bilbo essentially holds it for ransom from Thorin in order to break the siege at the misty mountains (he in fact gives it to Bard to ransom back in an attempt to break the siege) which is why I put it in Hobbittm, and since there are 4 KNOWN Arkentools and the 4th isn't named I figured the Arken-whatever we ran into in OTHER popular media sources might be the mysterious 4th tool
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby Anton Gaist » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:05 pm

fjolnir wrote:Well I put it up because Bilbo essentially holds it for ransom from Thorin in order to break the siege at the misty mountains (he in fact gives it to Bard to ransom back in an attempt to break the siege) which is why I put it in Hobbittm, and since there are 4 KNOWN Arkentools and the 4th isn't named I figured the Arken-whatever we ran into in OTHER popular media sources might be the mysterious 4th tool


True as that may be, there are many, albeit circumstantial, arrows pointing at an Arkenshovel. To quote the Wiki, under Real World References:
It was pointed out that several characters have names that alludes to companies around the world that manufacture tools:
Stanley manufacture hand tools
Zhejiang Wanda Tools Co. Ltd specialize in making pliers
Dish Network formed by Charles W. "Charlie" Ergen provide satellite television service in the United States
There is a company named Rockwell manufacturing tools.
It is also worth noting that one of the earliest patents for a shovel design was given to James B. Sizemore.


So far, there is a link between each Arkentool wielder and a real-life reference, which would be complete if Sizemore got an Arkenshovel. That's why I'm inclined to think in that direction. It'd be as much a Chekhov's Gun as I've ever seen.

And like I said before, if I ever see a warlord called Decker the Black, or Dee of Walt or anything like that, I bet he/she has an Arkentool.

And yes, an Arkensaw would be hilarious.
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby Benementat » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:51 pm

Okay, so if it is an Arkenshovel, Who has it and what does it do?

Since each Tool seems to have it's own specific units tied to it, I'd say some kind of uber-golem would be possible, unless you could animate entire hexes to fight for you....
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby Winged » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:39 am

what any item appears to be seems irrelevent, it is who will get it that matters. So far we have seen wanda get her toy which was attuned to her, and reflects her powers, and we have seen that stanly, well tends to take the "hulk smash" approch to warfair, which zens nicely with his dwagons. That said it is fair to assume that whoever gets the next item will be reflected by it, and in my strictly "metagame" veiw be an importsnt unit to the story. So the real question is who will get it, and what will it do for them?

Personaly i don't see it being a shovel, it's just way too easy, and sizemore just does not seem like he would even have the ambition to go get the thing, and it's not like anyone is going to hand it to him.

Jillian on the other hand has potential, she's going to be traveling a lot has motivations, she is already significant to the plot. In my veiw it is her or an unintroduced charicter.
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby Maldeus » Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:15 am

Yes, actually, Stanley would, in fact, hand it to Sizemore. He's got an ArkenTool already, so does Wanda, so he'll probably just start passing it around to see if anyone attunes to it. Given the connection between the name Sizemore and the patenting of the shovel, I don't see it as unlikely Sizemore ends up with the ArkenShovel.
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby Prometheus » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:56 am

Maldeus wrote:Yes, actually, Stanley would, in fact, hand it to Sizemore. He's got an ArkenTool already, so does Wanda, so he'll probably just start passing it around to see if anyone attunes to it. Given the connection between the name Sizemore and the patenting of the shovel, I don't see it as unlikely Sizemore ends up with the ArkenShovel.

I disagree that Stanley would hand it over. He's not particularly thrilled that Wanda attuned to the pliers from what I can tell. He'd probably rather lock up the Arkenshovel (or Arkenwhatever) so that nobody could use it.
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby raphfrk » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:04 pm

Prometheus wrote:I disagree that Stanley would hand it over. He's not particularly thrilled that Wanda attuned to the pliers from what I can tell. He'd probably rather lock up the Arkenshovel (or Arkenwhatever) so that nobody could use it.


Well, he isn't sure about Wanda's loyalty, so that may be part of the problem for him.

However, I could see one of the later books with Sizemore and Parson having to decide if they should disregard Stanley's order (for his own good :) ) and break into the safe with the Arkenshovel.
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby Bakin » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:25 am

Winged wrote:...and sizemore just does not seem like he would even have the ambition to go get the thing, and it's not like anyone is going to hand it to him.

It would actually fit in nicely with the story to have Sizemore have the ArkenShovel shoved onto him - he does not want power, but he's gonna get it regardless
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby DevilDan » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:09 am

We all know who'd get the arken-salad-fork.
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby Dragonhawk » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:42 pm

If the Arkenshovel exists, and is attuned to a type of magic on the fate axis, and is fated to belong to Sizemore, then it should logically emphasize the fate magic that has the same class as Sizemore's specialty of Dirtamancy. Dirtamancy is part of Stuffamancy, so that would make the 'shovel a Changemancy artifact...

Could we be seeing a bit of foreshadowing in the 6th panel of this comic? http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F142.jpg
Changing the terrain type would certainly be an artifact-level ability, and ties in well with Sizemore's specialty.
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby the_tick_rules » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:53 pm

I dunno about sizemore gettin a shovel. Only the arkendish has it's physical look reflect it's powers. What's a toy hammer got to do with dwagons or pliers with uncroaked?
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby Maldeus » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:55 pm

It's because the name Wanda has to do with Pliers and the name Stanley has to do with hammers. Similarly, one of the earliest patents for a shovel was granted to someone named Sizemore. Look it up on the wiki.
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby Arkenputtyknife » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:00 pm

As has been pointed out before, it's an old comedy gag to whack someone on the head with a hammer when they get out of line. Thus, hammer = ‘taming’. You can't do that safely with a real hammer, but you can do it with a kid's squeezy hammer, which is what the Arkenhammer is obviously based on.

The pliers are more of a stretch, but pliers are used to construct things, and can also be used to crush things. So, making uncroaked from the recently croaked, or crushing uncroaked to dust, aren't entirely unnatural functions for the Arkenpliers.

Like I say: a stretch, but it's the best I can come up with.
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby Unclever title » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:37 am

Arkenputtyknife wrote:As has been pointed out before, it's an old comedy gag to whack someone on the head with a hammer when they get out of line. Thus, hammer = ‘taming’. You can't do that safely with a real hammer, but you can do it with a kid's squeezy hammer, which is what the Arkenhammer is obviously based on.

The pliers are more of a stretch, but pliers are used to construct things, and can also be used to crush things. So, making uncroaked from the recently croaked, or crushing uncroaked to dust, aren't entirely unnatural functions for the Arkenpliers.

Like I say: a stretch, but it's the best I can come up with.


Nice, I never thought of it that way before, so the gobwins being entirely loyal to Stanley now even though he was King Saline's (appointed) heir designate and they betrayed him, might well be a function of the hammer's "Taming." Though it's not really clear if it makes the gap from beasts like dwagons (we know it works on them) and spidews (maybe?) to more sentient beings like gobwins, though they may be "beastlike enough" or the hammer could affect loyalty. This might explain a little of Jack's actions. Man if the hammer can affect loyalty and Stanley learns how to make better use of it... He could be unstoppable. Though I suppose he could be using it already at the extent of his ability to use it.
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby Erk » Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:06 am

That's actually an interesting thought. It would put the Hammer more in line with the other Tools we've seen, with Stanley just not using it appropriately.
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Re: 4th arkentool speculation

Postby DevilDan » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:24 am

Erk wrote:That's actually an interesting thought. It would put the Hammer more in line with the other Tools we've seen, with Stanley just not using it appropriately.

Given Stanley's monomania with straightforward combat, it'd be no surprise if he isn't using the 'hammer to its full potential.
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