Shockmancy and the arkenhammer

Speculation, discoveries, complaints, accusations, praise, and all other Erfworld discussion.

Re: Shockmancy and the arkenhammer

Postby Ichthus » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:05 pm

I'm just waiting for Rob and Jamie to post the comic or Klog that gives us that info. Otherwise, it's speculation.
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Re: Shockmancy and the arkenhammer

Postby DevilDan » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:28 pm

Erk wrote:I'd be more inclined to think that the tools all offer a wide variety of powers. Just as the hammer can be used in combat, can enable flight, can tame dwagons, and can turn walnuts into pigeons, I think the pliers can be used for much more than dusting uncroaked and decrypting - Wanda has likely only scratched the surface of their powers, as she's only had them for a turn or two. Further, Charlie has immense thinkamancy, but he also has the ability to spawn or tame Archons, which is only cursorily associated. He almost certainly has some other abilities as well: he's the type to play his cards as close to the chest as he can, and he'd not reveal even this much unless he could hold a great deal more in reserve.

So, if they are associated with any specific magic at all, I'd expect them to be whole axes: the pliers, for example, are probably not croakamancy, but naughtymancy. The dish, in keeping with both its appearance and Charlie's excellent intelligence, would be eyemancy. However, I'm inclined to think they're like any magical artifacts: full of interesting powers, themed to a given area, but not aligned with a school of magic. The Arkenhammer is essentially the Hammer of Thor.


Actually, this parallels some of my own thoughts. I did want to frame this particular debate within the bounds of what a fair percentage of readers believes to be true, though, instead of arguing all those alternative theories—which is actually my own favorite approach, discussing all the delicious possibilities without necessarily favoring one. (Actually, I tend to think that the walnuts tricks is closer to stagemancy, which is of the same axis as carnymancy...)

(Just as I point out that technically there is no evidence supporting a direct connection between the 'dish and the archons.)
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Re: Shockmancy and the arkenhammer

Postby Kreistor » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:15 am

Personally, I think the powers they provide are uniqe to the user, not the artifact. Ansom hated uncroaked (called them abominations), so it dusted them. Wanda loved them, so it enhanced hers. Stanley is fiery and quick to anger, so his is aggressive. In someone else's hands, it might not generate the same effect.

'Cause, after all, at this point, why don't they have records of what the items can do? SOmeone had to attune in the past for them to know about it. Why is the Pliers enhancing uncroaked not a known ability? They seem to know nothing about any of the artifacts, except the ones that are being used right now. That only makes sense if the powers are always different.
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Re: Shockmancy and the arkenhammer

Postby Erk » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:40 am

I don't really think they'd have to have attuned in the past. Erfworlders are popped simply understanding most mechanics. Attunement could be among them. It doesn't seem likely there have been previous wielders of the hammer and pliers, though that may not be the case with the other knowns; I'd think we'd have heard if there were prior users.
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Re: Shockmancy and the arkenhammer

Postby moose o death » Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:25 am

they might know what we don't know. in the real world we don't wander about informing everyone we meet how to drive a car. in the movies people just hop in and drive. the same thing would happen in erfworld for arkentools. the units of erf are probably well aware the effects of each tool are different for everyone who attunes to it. stanley has asked wanda if it has any cool tricks early in the updates. and he discovered the walnut thingy early in the first book. we know of 3, they know of 4, none of the erfworlders have seen fit to explain what numero quatro is or does yet. does that mean it's unknown or that it hasn't been a topic of conversation. we wont know until we do.

this whole thread is based on speculation and nothing more.
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Re: Shockmancy and the arkenhammer

Postby DevilDan » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:12 am

Yes, yummy, calorie-laden, nutrient-devoid speculation: part of a complete brekkie.

There are any number of possibilities why knowledge about the 'tools powers may be limited. I wouldn't assume that all is known by everyone at every point. After all, would you spread it around exactly what your powers are or how a superweapon does what it does? Even if it can't be duplicated as is the apparent case with arkentools, it would allow people to make more educated guesses about you. Sides would guard such valuable tactical information jealously; on Earth, the movement of people in the form of emigration, commerce, or even scholarship, even during the "Dark Ages," would have provided an avenue for such information, even if incompletely and inaccurately, to flow. The informal, organic network of communication in Erf may be far less extensive, reliable, or active.

Ansom felt it necessary to mention that Stanley had a mastery of dwagons (though that may have been widely understood by all present—expositionmancy?). Vinny wasn't at one point aware that Ansom wasn't attuned to his Tool—if he was, he wasn't aware of the significance of this—which suggests that though he'd been for at least a brief time in the RCC campaign that he hadn't received much information about the 'pliers current capabilities. One reason behind the lack of information about the fourth Arkentool is that very little—and perhaps mostly tenuous or conflicting rumors—may be known about it.

Information is lost in time; so may the Tools and knowledge of them be lost and rediscovered. If an overlord managed to wrest one away from another side, they'd hold on to it, bank on its mystique, hiding it away and hoping everyone assumes that it's attuned to one of their warlords or casters. It may be that no one has attuned to them until recently, even, making their attuned powers a mystery to everyone.

EDIT: And Maggie, by all appearance a capable and knowledgeable Thinkamancer, was not certain of the limits of the arkendish's power.
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Re: Shockmancy and the arkenhammer

Postby cloudbreaker » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:28 pm

Since libraries pop when a city is built, maybe there was a book or something in the library that told about the arkentools. Or if there wasn't, maybe there will be now that Gobwin Knob was rebuilt.
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Re: Shockmancy and the arkenhammer

Postby DevilDan » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:29 pm

cloudbreaker wrote:Since libraries pop when a city is built, maybe there was a book or something in the library that told about the arkentools. Or if there wasn't, maybe there will be now that Gobwin Knob was rebuilt.

Haha, yes. That's a whole 'nother can of gummi worms.
Last edited by DevilDan on Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shockmancy and the arkenhammer

Postby Maldeus » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:14 pm

cloudbreaker wrote:Since libraries pop when a city is built, maybe there was a book or something in the library that told about the arkentools. Or if there wasn't, maybe there will be now that Gobwin Knob was rebuilt.


Parson spent a lot of time in the original Knob library. If there was a book on the Arkentools, we'd probably have heard about it.
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Re: Shockmancy and the arkenhammer

Postby moose o death » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:03 pm

maybe but parson spent alot of time in GK1.0's library, the point made was that that city was ashes and this library is new.

the newly formed library may contain new books that contain information the warlords and casters, at the time of rebuilding, want to know.
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Re: Shockmancy and the arkenhammer

Postby Cmdr I. Heartly Noah » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:09 am

I can support the idea of a tool basing its powers on its attuned user; but I don't think I can go with the pliers dusting uncroaked while in Ansom's hands being due to Ansom. Also, Ansom's hammer isn't "aggressive." It does "good tricks."
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Re: Shockmancy and the arkenhammer

Postby moose o death » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:05 am

Cmdr I. Heartly Noah wrote:I can support the idea of a tool basing its powers on its attuned user; but I don't think I can go with the pliers dusting uncroaked while in Ansom's hands being due to Ansom. Also, Ansom's hammer isn't "aggressive." It does "good tricks."

you mean stanley's hammer, and i agree. it isn't aggresive. it's innocent and childlike, and then it's capable of mucho rage-o. which summs up stanley quite well.

one second it pops pidgeons every 4th or 5th walnut, the next it's summoning ever dwagon within move to threaten a naive warlord who thinks his side is evil. that tool is as schizophrenic as it's user.

ansom dusting uncroaked troops could be as simple as a level ten- royal heir-chief warlord-leader of the RCC-with an artifact bonus. the number of multipliers stacked on ansom in that situation would probably gib most anything as cobbled together as the uncroaked. i still call the dusting undead as a throwaway foreshadowing event and nothing else. ansom could probably have split a weiner rammer open like a BBQ snag, or some other heavily punned death for something else...pulled the stuffing from a cloth golem? swatted a spidew? either way he said it was a powerful weapon regardless of attunement for example it dusts uncroaked troops.

took a while to find, ansom's exact words
at best they are a good combat weapon, indeed they turn most uncraoked to dust.

not ALL, MOST. not a specific ability of the weapon just an observaion of the enemy forces.

he then goes onto say
but fate magic is powerless in my case, i cannot unlock their secrets. i know of no-one who can.

this seems to be where everyone is getting that only fate alligned arkentools exist. in a world where fate IS a magic type. you would normally refer to it as fate magic. this to me reads like it's not his fate to attune to this tool..which it wasn't. not the tool being a fate alligned piece of equipment.

page 22 for anyone who wants to argue more semantics
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Re: Shockmancy and the arkenhammer

Postby DevilDan » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:03 pm

Actually, moose o.d., those arguments all check with me; the mention of turning uncroaked to dust could be a red herring.

As to Fate, seemingly accurate prophecies (and the existence of other magics) bolster the idea that Fate is more than a mere word on Erf.
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Re: Shockmancy and the arkenhammer

Postby Amstrad » Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:36 am

So I'd just like to throw a bit of my own speculation out there as it relates to the Arkenhammer and Carneymancy. I'll try to keep this organized, but I might ramble a bit.. anywhere, here it goes:

Taking this from a wider viewpoint that each Faction seems to have an overarching 'theme' I notice a few different things in support of a clown or carney theme being played out with the Plaid Tribe, Stanley and the Arkenhammer.

Plaid Tribe --> Clowns and carnies in general are often decked out in plaid of clashing patterns and colors.

King Saline IV --> Obvious reference, Saline I.V. drips, being water with a sodium additive. Taking this a bit further, Seltzer Water, carbonated water often with a sodium additive, when used in a seltzer bottle to spray someone in the face is a classic physical comedy prop. There are some other things here, mostly in connection with wiki speculation I.E. "bears a striking resemblance to King Friday XIII from the Mister Rogers' Neighborhood" which brings to mind handpuppet shows like Punch and Judy

Stanley --> Besides being a Tool the only things that stand out in my mind here are a possible association with Stan Laurel of Laurel and Hardy fame, and the KISS facepaint thing being comparable to clown or stage makeup in a general sense.

Arkenhammer --> The primary argument for this tool being shockmancy associated is the lightning control, while a whole host of possible behaviors of the hammer have been speculatively applied to carnymancy. What I'm surprised has never been mentioned in favor of a lightning like effect being an aspect of carnymancy is this little number: Joy Buzzer which is often employed by.. you guessed it, clowns!

Anyway, that's about it. Just needed to get that out of my system.
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Re: Shockmancy and the arkenhammer

Postby moose o death » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:37 am

nice speculations and welcome to the forums.

some people have mentioned carneymancy due to the pidgeon nuts thing. while i can see the angles your promoting. i could go one of two ways with it.

cryptic for the sake of readership. simple solutions like "it's shockamancy" do not make good webcomic's, your theory is so far removed from the simple solution it could actually work. it's just needlessly obscure enough to be good backstory. while making the tools abilities hard to predict. (eg based on the early pages who would guess the hammer could arc lightning?)

stretching it way too far to make an arguement. it's stretching it pretty thin in many ways to arrive at carneymancy for taming dwagons, shooting lightning, and hatching pidgeons from walnuts. listed in that way hoever it does lend creedance to your theory.

i do agree each side does appear to be themed, GK strikes me as more introverted and humble. stanley pops a working mans breakfast, he didn't want fancy banners on his capital, they wear simple plaid outfits, sizemore is very happy to be just helping. maggie is also very demure. everything about GK screams quiet and powerful. the strong silent types. ansom's jetsone side is the opposite. obnoxiously powerfully. cramming their business where it's not necesary for the sake of being on top.

what remains to be seen is whether this is a result of the then current events, or of the sides inherrant personalities
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