Stack question

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Stack question

Postby Sgeo » Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:33 pm

Apparently, stacks get a stack bonus that max at eight. However, there appear to sometimes be other bonuses that apply to the stack. For those bonuses, would it still make sense to have a stack of much more than eight?
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Re: Stack question

Postby zz_tophat » Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:26 am

Stack bonuses max out but other bonuses like leadership could be added to that. The stack would receive no more bonuses from additional units.

I am going to go ahead and assume there are other reasons for having more than the stack bonus limit, what those are I don't know.

My theory:
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Parson will explain at some point, (the reasons for having larger stack) as he cleverly notices something about stack mechanics no one in erfworld has. For that reason much about the mechanics of stacks has gone unsaid. So that we can all be surprised by his revelation.
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Re: Stack question

Postby moose o death » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:14 am

stacks recieve warlord/overlord/commander/ royal/arkentool multipliers as well. so while 8 of the same units will max the bonus multipliers for that stack of regular units. adding those extra units will multiply that.

also 8xunits fighting at 8x their attack score (this being where it becomes obvous i draw and not game) would still be substantially weaker than 64 units fighting at 8x their attack score. 8 squads of 8 units would also be 64 units, handling a situation like that would require 8 times as many warlords for further bonuses and make maggies job harder as it appears thnkamancers relay combat commands on top of other duties.

thus the biggest benefit to larger stacks would be needing less nobles/officer class units, and applying the bigger bonuses to larger groups. smaller stacks would allow more complex orders to be relayed, and less chance of sudden power drain from croaked warlords, but requires more warlords to command the units.

natural limitation would be upkeep costs of warlords.
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Re: Stack question

Postby valce » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:00 pm

Smaller stacks controlled by warlords who are given some level of independence would be pretty useful on the battlefield.

At least, according to Ender :P
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Re: Stack question

Postby taltamir » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:33 pm

multiple stacks can share a hex, and a single overlord can give bonus to multiple stacks at once.
I am not quite clear over what is a stack bonus...
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Re: Stack question

Postby DevilDan » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:04 pm

How does our understanding of stacks match with Wanda leading an army of uncroaked in dance fighting?
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Re: Stack question

Postby the_tick_rules » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:54 pm

They wouldn't get a stack bonus but yeah other stuff like leadership would be in effect. I think sometimes getting more than an 8 person stack would be benefical. Having the bare minimum means loosing one unit means the bonus begin pealing away. Maybe throw some grunts in with a stack of high level units and such?
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Re: Stack question

Postby DevilDan » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:39 pm

So is the 8-unit limit a limit on those that gain a direct leadership bonus?
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Re: Stack question

Postby Unclever title » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:31 pm

I imagine a Warlord can command multiple stacks maybe not in a direct blow by blow scenario but at least a, "wait for it... now, ATTACK!" kind of thing, of course that specific scenario in a turn based game might not make any sense, unless it happened over multiple turns.

It stands to reason that if you can command troops and have "leadership" then those troops will get your leadership bonus.

Though I imagine the bonus to troops in one's personal stack will be higher.
However this might well be part of the difference between a Warlord and a Chief Warlord.

Yeah, nevermind what I typed above, (still there cause I still think it's still reasonable if inaccurate)

I'm pretty sure it goes down like it does in this strip.
Stack bonus maxes at 8 or more units in a stack
Warlord leadership bonus is to units in his stack.
A partial Chief Warlord leadership bonus to all units in the Hex.
A Chief Warlord's stack gets his full leadership bonus.

Arkentool bonus is just CRAZY high, also the Overlord likely has his own unique bonus/bonuses.

Least that's how it looks the way Vinny described it.
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Re: Stack question

Postby Housellama » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:46 pm

I think it's much simpler. Stack bonuses stop at 8, but all that means is that you have to have 8 units in the stack to get a stack bonus of +8, which is the maximum.

So one reason for putting more units in any given stack is to allow that stack to absorb more losses before losing their maximum bonus. I think Wanda's Dance Fight was one huge stack all lead by Wanda. That way it could simply absorb losses and just keep going. Which worked fine, right up until Ansom pulled a DDR.
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Re: Stack question

Postby DevilDan » Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:12 am

Housellama wrote:I think Wanda's Dance Fight was one huge stack all lead by Wanda. That way it could simply absorb losses and just keep going. Which worked fine, right up until Ansom pulled a DDR.


Wanda's croakamancer bonus to uncroaked plus the dance fight bonus would have been unbeatable.
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Re: Stack question

Postby moose o death » Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:54 pm

until ansom lead a larger force with an artifact bonus.
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Re: Stack question

Postby DevilDan » Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:10 pm

moose o death wrote:until ansom lead a larger force with an artifact bonus.

It seemed to me that the determinant factor was the dance fighting rather than the artifact bonus.
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Re: Stack question

Postby zz_tophat » Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:49 am

Did Ansome have an artifact bonus?
I don't recall specific mention of him having a bonus but I could be wrong, It may have been in the comic and I just missed it.
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Re: Stack question

Postby DevilDan » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:21 pm

zz_tophat wrote:Did Ansome have an artifact bonus?
I don't recall specific mention of him having a bonus but I could be wrong, It may have been in the comic and I just missed it.

Some sort of artifact bonus is specifically mentioned by Parson here: http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F072.jpg
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Re: Stack question

Postby moose o death » Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:34 am

to me dance fighting is still utterly bizarre, mechanicallyi don't see how dancing to thriller or ddr results in unit losses
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Re: Stack question

Postby DevilDan » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:40 pm

Dance fighting is a bonus, like a special technique in a fighting game; it is a completely bizarre idea, I admit, but in a world created by Elvii then one should not underestimate the power of a few choice dance moves.

I can see how one could explain the dance fighting bonus as allowing armies to move in concert, with greater rhythm and agility. Heck, the bonuses of having a tool in the stack or hex are far less understandable... one would have to posit some "field" effect that boosts the stacks of those nearby. (Of course, that's precisely how +1 amulets and rings work... at the end I guess you just have to accept these ideas.)
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Re: Stack question

Postby moose o death » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:24 am

yeah but even my suspension of disbelief can't choke down dance fighting. especially ddr versus thriller.
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Re: Stack question

Postby DevilDan » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:35 am

moose o death wrote:yeah but even my suspension of disbelief can't choke down dance fighting. especially ddr versus thriller.


Too bad. I guess it's not aesthetically satisfying to see DDR beat Thriller, but, to be fair, the living troops have an advantage over the uncroaked ones from the beginning.
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Re: Stack question

Postby turbler » Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:49 pm

especially ones that were mass uncroaked. I think ansom had a nartifact bonus, just a partial one because of non-attunement, but that's just fanon right now.
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