Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Speculation, discoveries, complaints, accusations, praise, and all other Erfworld discussion.

Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby Hari Seldon » Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:25 am

Prediction for Book 2

Parson might:

1. Have to deal with the practically the entire world putting a bounty on Stanley's head for any Assassin to collect. Assassins eventually win. Parson, as Warlord, gets Promoted to Overlord when Stanley dies. Wanda also has to die (first) so she can't just Decrypt Stanley in a (not-converting-him-to-my-servant) way that the Arkenhammer would allow. This doesn't have much for Parson to Wargame with, so it' kind of boring.
Actually be disbanded as a Barbarian (his Side's destroyed?) and start wandering around the country (with his new ability to move through hexes) and conquer the Royals the old-fashioned way ... rebellion.
2. The Magic Kingdom hates Parson so much (and still doesn't know and/or care that he's a Stuffamancer (he can invent stuff since he's from the "future" he can for example set up Production Lines and invent that) as well as a Warlord) that they ally with the other kingdoms and lay down the magical pwnage on Stanley by debuffing Stanley and buffing themselves ridiculously. Conventional warfare kills Stanley because this time his enemy has Spell Protection.
3. Charlie stops Stanley when he realizes that Stanley is going to win, make relative peace in the world, and Charlie's arms dealing business will collapse.

Note: We already know that the Kingdom of Faq is planned to make a reappearance so it appears that the world's strategy is currently to out-Econ Stanley. I don't think that will work since Stanley has too much Magic on his side (it's how he won in Book 1, and now he has Decrypt which is ridiculous powerful). That's why how the world is actually going to win vs Stanley will be one of those 3 above.

Parson might convince Charlie (in this book or perhaps Book 3) that to improve Erfworld's economy there needs to be more of a Cold War going on so that there's less killing (so popping increases Erfworld's population faster, higher population causes more demand for all products) but still plenty of arms dealing to do. This requires superpowers that won't make Peace. That would probably be the Nobles vs. Stanely (or Parson if Stanley's out of the picture) right now.



Prediction for Book 3

I'm guessing that somehow Parson will manage to make his own Side from scratch so we get to see him having to deal with Economy and building up his Capital from nothing. His time with Stanley would be merely "mentoring session" after all :twisted:. Heck Parson might even start out with leading Barbarians and not even having a Town to start with so we could see some non-Town economy going (Just how do Barbarians pop units? At Camp?). And somehow manage to lead a non-Town Barbarian side without relying on raiding but instead on Fabrication ... and completely befuddle everyone as this has never been done before. And since Parson hasn't attacked anybody nobody can declare war on him without the rest of the Barbarians feeling oppressed and ... Dundundun ...

This also allows Parson to Design His own City ... which would allow him to incorporate any modernish technology he taught his people to Craft while they were Townless, right from the start.

This also allows Parson to travel around the world, too, which is cool. He would get a greater-than-I-just-saw-a-map knowledge of it for the upcoming battle.



This also allows Parson to have to deal with Multiclassing everyone in his band before they reach the city, since they have to both be able to craft and defend themselves to survive. And they HAVE to get Stack Leaders for everyone ... it'd be just inane for Parson's little band to still have the autoattack the enemy and do not retreat unless ordered otherwise (and who relays the orders ... Dundundun ... the Stack Leader of course and the only requirement for that is to have an Eyebook and parrot the command relayed to you ... you might not even qualify as a unit with Leadership - so your upkeep doesn't go up - but still get the job done). Of course, Leadership increasing upkeep is another thing Parson might debunk ... it might simply be that going up in a hierarchy gets you higher pay ... like how Generals get paid more than Sergents. If you simply Lead others voluntarily (ex: officer in a volunteer militia) you may not increase in upkeep at all (unless the exp you gain Leading your Stack gains you a level, but then you get a bunch of other bonuses so that's ok). Simply put, Abilities in Erfworld do not increase upkeep except via economics (Master Crafters get paid more than Novice Crafters this way) or whatever anything but automatic but somehow it all works out like it does on Earth. This stuff about abilities is quite interesting, because there are one of 2 possibilities (ordered most likely to least likely):

1. Gaining ability in a subject is independent of your Level. Sure you gain experience for it (since killing isn't the only way to gain exp in Erfworld), but say you're a lvl 10 unit. You'll practically never level so if you start multiclassing to say Crafting then how are you supposed to advance in Crafting if you don't level and have points to distribute? Simple ... you don't have to level to gain skill. Ex: Parson climbing the stairs (and getting better at that) is a "skill" even if it's just athletic, move, or something but that hardly justifies leveling him. Your Level is merely an approximate ... summary of your stats, like how Gobwin Knob v2.0 was technically a Level 5 city but has special defense bonuses that really make it much higher in defensibility (like a theoretical Level 8 city or something). Parson fits this perfectly as he is as perfect a Warlord as Wanda could find, but is only a level 2 when he arrives. Why Parson has low exp I don't know, maybe not being a Major League Gamer or accomplished at his job meant Erfworld rated him low ... he had potential but hadn't applied himself enough for Erfworld to credit him for that (other than maybe novice (FedEx) Deliverer and ... umm ... hobbiest - apparently not worth much exp - (tabletop) Warlord), since Erfworld seems to only award exp for hard work. And Parson's general (but not professional) knowledge of many various subjects didn't count because it wasn't professional knowledge ... Erfworld couldn't call him a Quantum Physicist (even an initiate) just because he knew about Quantum Computers. Like how a peasant in Erfworld might pop knowing some Erfworld history like how people in Erfworld pop knowing the Language or Twolls pop with natural Fabrication, but not get any starting exp for it.

2. High level units cannot gain ability until they level and when they do they gain a crapload of skill points (just in case you noviced yourself in a ton of skills - which doesn't take much exp - you need enough skill points to do that) - unlikely Parson being only level 2 and still having awesome Warlord strategy skills doesn't fit this (Warlord being purely based on Leadership would be rather cheap treating him the same as any mere Stack Leader, strategy has to count too). In other words, being a novice at a craft is very, very cheap in exp and skill points but being a master at a craft is very, very expensive in exp and skill points. Parson disproves this because he comes to Erfworld as a Level 2 unit, but is the Warlord Skillzinator (he is an awesome Master Warlord (Master Strategist anyway) already he just doesn't know the gamplay mechanics and has low leadership because he hasn't actually led people very much before, just rolled dice and done strategy war games, no leadership of those miniatures involved). I really think that Special means that unusual bonuses apply, just as when it was use to explain Gobwin Knob v2.0's "special" defense bonuses, so Special just indicates Parson has some unusual (and possibly never-before-seen) bonuses/skills. I'm glad that Erfworld doesn't make a unit's bonuses/skills entirely visible to other units (ex: Assasins would have a tough time explaining why they have "Backstab" and nobody could be surprised by anyone's skills which would be boring) ... Twoll's Fabrication ability ... wait ... do units' skills become revealed once you discover them (Parson didn't check that Twoll and see he had Fabrication until after he suspected that he had Fabrication). Probably. And if you assume all Twolls have Fabrication because people told you that it was their innate and natural skill, then you'd see Fabrication on every Twoll after that. Nice, I like this. So the reason Parson's skills aren't visible is that no one else has discovered them yet and they haven't become general knowledge either. The only thing that has is his name and him being a Warlord. And people who somehow managed to have never heard of him might not even see that, though I'm not sure.

By the way, does anyone else think that Charlie's Arkendish can see everyone's Stats, all of their Stats (even exp)? Even Parsons? I think so. It probably helps Charlie's war mathamancy. And make him seem omniscient. Heh, the Arkendish probably even provides a real-turn-time map of at least the portions of Erfworld Charlie focuses on, like Stanely's Eyemancer Table used to.

3. Gaining ability does let you gain level. So you can become a novice at many different trades very quickly (since that doesn't take much time) and gain ridiculous numbers of levels that way. This is very cheap. I like option #1 much better.
Last edited by Hari Seldon on Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby moose o death » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:46 am

i doubt anyone attuned to a tool dies, at any point. the crux of the story seems to be working towards the attuned erfworlders are special.

we don't know how they came to be known about, or if anyone else has ever attuned to them. we know of three tools, we know nothing about them. stanley's is the best known because it's clear he keeps trying it in new ways. deliberatly or not. we can only assume taming dwagons was a happy accident, in defending himself he whomped one in the head and he's been riding it ever since. he's since found a powerful lightning show and the ability to spawn walnut flavoured pigeons.

wanda can decrypt now but clearly that thing has other tricks too

charlie's tool is all guesswork, he's not going to tell us either. information is power and he currently holds the most of it.
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Re: Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby Guurzak » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:14 am

Parson, as Warlord, gets Promoted to Overlord when Stanley dies.

This doesn't happen unless Stanley has designated (and paid for) an Heir.

"So what happens if Stanley is croaked? He has no heir, so our side ends. Field units disband, and this city becomes "neutral," which is not as nice as it sounds. Units here freeze in time. We can do nothing until attacked."
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Re: Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby Hari Seldon » Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:48 pm

i doubt anyone attuned to a tool dies, at any point. the crux of the story seems to be working towards the attuned erfworlders are special.

we don't know how they came to be known about, or if anyone else has ever attuned to them. we know of three tools, we know nothing about them. stanley's is the best known because it's clear he keeps trying it in new ways. deliberatly or not. we can only assume taming dwagons was a happy accident, in defending himself he whomped one in the head and he's been riding it ever since. he's since found a powerful lightning show and the ability to spawn walnut flavoured pigeons.

wanda can decrypt now but clearly that thing has other tricks too

charlie's tool is all guesswork, he's not going to tell us either. information is power and he currently holds the most of it.

Umm I understand how you say attuned Erfworlders can't die, but ... that is probably more of a plot device than a Erfworld game mechanic. Well it could be Fate magic but ... what I mean is ... it's not just "I nuke Wanda she survives because she can't die." It's more like "I nuke Wanda but Fate magic throws Luckamancy in and Wanda is saved by jumping in a refrigerator and riding the blast wave." I basically agree with you on this. I basically say that even if Stanely dies, Fate Demands Wanda will Decrypt him, and likely Stanely's Arkenhammer (which controls the Fate magic) won't allow Wanda to enslave Stanely during the Decryption.



Parson, as Warlord, gets Promoted to Overlord when Stanley dies.

This doesn't happen unless Stanley has designated (and paid for) an Heir.

"So what happens if Stanley is croaked? He has no heir, so our side ends. Field units disband, and this city becomes "neutral," which is not as nice as it sounds. Units here freeze in time. We can do nothing until attacked."

Uh-oh ... thanks for reminding me. Why didn't Jillian freeze in time when Faq was destroyed was it because she was a Royal or that she wasn't very respectful/Loyal to her Father to start with (or perhaps both)? Well anyway ... actually Wanda seemed to be Loyal to Stanley (but when Stanley said that he didn't care if she - or Parson or Maggie or Sizemore who were his advisors - lived) Wanda was traumatized very much like "freezing in time" she became depressed and didn't do anything, but eventually recovered (and I'm not quite sure but maybe started having a more visible Personal Symbol - the skull - like she decided to found her own side or something). The others seemed to take it a bit better. Honestly I think Stanley leaving them to die gave them all a big minus to Loyalty to him. Yeah we don't know if Loyalty is binary (either off or on) or is point-based more points you have the harder you are to bribe/whatever (I'm guessing point-based since Wanda was "close" to Stanley and his "favorite" and took this Loyalty hit the hardest). Doesn't matter anyway; either way all of Stanley's advisors rolled a Loyalty check and either stayed loyal to Stanley or became more ... independent. Not being Loyal to Stanley but still being on his side is like Jillian being a Barbarian but being mercenaried to the Royals' side in Book 1 without being Loyal to them (though in Book 2 she swears her revenge on Stanley and goes to claim Faq and be a princess and DEFINITELY be Loyal to the Royals' side since she becomes a Royal). Stanley doesn't know this because the only Stats other Erfworlders can see (I assume) are Class, Level, Attack, Defense, and perhaps Special Abilities ... sometimes (Parson doesn't notice at first that Twolls have the fabrication special when he 3D-glasses Bogroll ... instead he just sees the Regeneration special on Bogroll). If Erfworlders saw each others' Loyalty all of the time ... well that sounds like an advanced Thinkamancy spell to me but that's just my opinion (we have to leave SOME spells out of natural Thinkamancy that everyone has, you know). So Stanley probably doesn't know when he returns to Gobwin Knob in the Summer Updates that he has just lost the Loyalty of all of his Casters/Commanders and become Completely Irrelevant (except for his shiny Arkenhammer). Sizemore and Maggie can do Moneymancy without Stanely being around (that's how they built the city before he arrived), Parson is a better strategist than Stanley (though he's no longer Warlord), Wanda is both a Caster and a "Commander" (see first few pages of Book 1 and Parson calls her "Commander"), Ansom is Warlord but Wanda's actually in charge so ... who's in charge of the military?! Anyway, the main characters would survive Stanley's death (or Stanley Firing them, I guess I don't know exactly) and probably successfully disband as Barbarians at the worst, and not miss any of Stanley except his Attunement to the Arkenhammer.

So I'm guessing Wanda now isn't very much Loyal to Stanley as she's Loyal to Fate Magic and Stanley just happens to be involved with her Fate right now ... in fact I take the little comment at the end of Book 1 that Wanda was Loyal to Fate magic to mean that Wanda was NOT popped in Gobwin Knob but instead "immigrated" there like Casters can be hired from the Magic Kingdom (if they wanted to be hired that is ... and Wanda did). So Wanda would pretty much now definitely not be frozen like the others might because she's Loyal to Fate magic and probably still has stuff to do for Fate (her conflicting Loyalty with Stanley has been vastly reduced when Stanley left her to die ... wait conflicting Loyalties are possible?! Therefore Civil Wars are possible not just among Father Royal vs. Son Royal in Transylvito but also among commoners!). We just don't know if Maggie and Sizemore were popped in Gobwin Knob (automatic Loyalty to Stanley) or the Magic Kingdom (Loyalty to Stanley unknown), but from their reactions to Stanely they appear to be Loyal to him (until the Loyalty check, then Maggie starts to stand up to Stanley to defend Parson from being "retired" from being Warlord). Sizemore ... hates Parson ... but just might hate Stanley more since Stanley caused this war in the first place ... I dunno ... anyway Sizemore may have something going on with Maggie so that might help him out if Stanley fired him or something ...

The big question is if your Warlord fires you and you're a Caster from the Magic Kingdom (probably Wanda) it would probably be an act of Aggression (or at least a serious reputation hit) against the Magic Kingdom to order the Caster killed after they were fired (if they survived the Loyalty Penalty and didn't just sink to the floor in depression) though being Negligent might still be reputation hit for you with the Magic Kingdom, and since everyone needs Casters and probably can't just pop their own (Casters seem to just have a chance to pop, like Royals do, not a specific "work order" to pop them) killing the Caster you fired would be a Bad Idea. So Warlords (if they were smart) wouldn't kill everyone they fired (though would kill everyone they fired that they could get away with ... for the EXP and not having a potential future enemy). So yeah I hear your question in advance. Stanley could just kill anyone he fired but probably isn't forced to kill them. The problem is that if Stanley fired all of his advisors at once and they weren't very Loyal to him (seems to be the case now) then they could all rebel and there would be ... umm ... civil war (conflicting loyalties are possible see above paragraph)? Each unit rolls a Loyalty Check for Stanley vs. whoever on the other side ... umm ... comes to mind? For example if Bogroll still was alive if Parson made a special recruiting visit to him for the Resistance then Bogroll might re-roll his Loyalty Check and also this would ensure that Bogroll rolled his Loyalty check at least once as Stanley vs. Parson.
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Re: Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby Yosarian » Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:10 pm

The magic kingdom hates parson?

Just the opposite. I'm pretty sure that this is all part of Janis's plan.

Remember, they bought the summon spell to summon "the perfect warlord" FROM the magic kingdom. And then remember that Janis, who wants peace, told Sizemore that if Parson breaks things enough, there might BE peace on erfworld.

I think that they deliberately set it up so Parson would be summoned, in order to create peace on erfworld. How's he going to do that? Well, the most obvious answer would be that if he manages to take over the world, then there wouldn't be war anymore. It might be more subtle then that, though.

I think that everything that's unfolded so far has gone exactly according to the way that the Magic Kingdom knew it would. It's all part of the plan, probably some incredibly complicated and vast combination of fate magic and hippie magic.
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Re: Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby Hari Seldon » Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:14 pm

Yes the magic kingdom hates parson because Janis' plan is secret (or else the Hippiemancers might not pull it off). That's why there is disagreement in the Magic Kingdom as to whether or not to croak Parson if they ever get within shooting distance.
Parson looked at a nearby red dwagon as it huffed and banked into a slow, powerful turn. "Maybe I should go back there. Talk to some people."

Maggie shook her head and swallowed. "I wouldn't, Lord," she warned. "When I went to call on Ken, I found they have our portal under guard. There are many in the Magic Kingdom who believe you ought to have been croaked, or at least captured."

Sizemore nodded at this. "Yes. Janis put you under her protection. But you needed to get out of there as soon as you could."

Parson did not know the name. "Janis."

"A Hippiemancer, Lord," said Maggie. Was that a little sneer?

"A powerful one," said Sizemore. "She took care of us after the...volcano spell. She took care of a lot of things."
- Summer Update - 028
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Re: Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby Yosarian » Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:16 pm

Hari Seldon wrote:Yes the magic kingdom hates parson because Janis' plan is secret (or else the Hippiemancers might not pull it off). That's why there is disagreement in the Magic Kingdom as to whether or not to croak Parson if they ever get within shooting distance.
Parson looked at a nearby red dwagon as it huffed and banked into a slow, powerful turn. "Maybe I should go back there. Talk to some people."

Maggie shook her head and swallowed. "I wouldn't, Lord," she warned. "When I went to call on Ken, I found they have our portal under guard. There are many in the Magic Kingdom who believe you ought to have been croaked, or at least captured."

Sizemore nodded at this. "Yes. Janis put you under her protection. But you needed to get out of there as soon as you could."

Parson did not know the name. "Janis."

"A Hippiemancer, Lord," said Maggie. Was that a little sneer?

"A powerful one," said Sizemore. "She took care of us after the...volcano spell. She took care of a lot of things."
- Summer Update - 028


Yeah, there are many in the magic kingdom who don't know about the plan, obviously. But I think the leaders of the magic kingdom do. It's probably not just Janis; there must have been more people involved in creating that summon scroll then just her, in order to summon Parson.
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Re: Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby Hari Seldon » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:56 pm

Actually it's my opinion that the rest of the Magic Kingdom scratched their heads when the Hippiemancers helped Stanley to get a Perfect Warlord because war on Erfworld never ends, it's their economy. There's so much undeveloped land in Erfworld (see Jillian's ride through the wilderness in Summer Updates) that people are focused on colonization/expansion/exploitation of natural resources above trade with other countries whereas if they did both (and not fight wars with other countries over minor border disputes like Transylvito did with whomever) they would win (be like the Magic Kingdom). They are basically pre-Adam Smith economists.

So pretty much everyone not included in the secret plan thinks that the Perfect Warlord is just going to eventually conquer the Magic Kingdom because that is the what all of the other Warlords want to do (conquer everybody else) when he'd do nothing of the sort (unless they pissed him off), and Parson's recent unbelievable win is very scary for them.

They haven't figured out the benefits of Trade are actually superior to conquering cities since you don't care whose Side the city's on so you don't have to protect them at all, regardless you just trade with them you get an economic bonus and presumably a sphere of influence bonus / make them slightly friendly towards you. Well, the Magic Kingdom and Charlie seems to have figured this out and done just this ... but no one else realizes this (since they just figure the Magic Kingdom is an overblown (but powerful) guild that's still a bug underneath the Royals) and they just figure Charlie is a small mercenary force and don't consider the vast accumuluations of wealth he has gotten over the years from helping everyone on Erfworld in lots and lots of wars and not ever losing any of them since he's the mercenary. In that respect Charlie is almost like the Government (or any other middleman) that taxes its citizens ... sure if you're lucky the tax is small, but in any case it adds up to a whole lot of Schmuckers after (more or less) everyone contributes. The Magic Kingdom seems to be the "superpower" having both territory and trade / lots of schmuckers, but Charlie is the dark horse (practically no territory ... I guess ... just a floating castle or whatever) but still tons of schmuckers in this race to conquer the world.
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Re: Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby moose o death » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:00 pm

hari, i never said they can't die, i do mean that they will not die.

the way i see it plotting out is there is 12-16 arkentools
each arkentool goes to a representative unit. a premium example of what a unit can be, wanda is a caster with capacity for all magics, stanley is a piker who would be king, charlie's story we don't know yet.

all of the attuned users are beyond your standard units.

through the course of the story they will all come into contact with parson, and learn to respect him in their own way. stanley (seemingly) has learned respect for parson, charlie has learned he's not to be underestimated. wanda has admitted personal things about herself to him, even admitting she's not actually loyal to stanley...she has zero respect for ansom.

the combined power of all arkentools, in a very extreme mancer hookup, will consume the tools and rebirth the world using parson's mind as the template.
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Re: Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby Hari Seldon » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:15 pm

hari, i never said they can't die, i do mean that they will not die.

Yeah that's what I was saying too :). Fate and all that.



This is my opinion of it's going to go:

Every person with an Arkentools wants to control the world. Parson doesn't. Parson has to fix this since war on Erfworld won't stop if uber-powerful Arkentool Attuned keep pushing for war (or arms dealing in Charlie's case).

Since Parson isn't going along with the conquer-the-world plan he's accepted resignation as Chief Warlord and doesn't WANT to go back (he threw his sword into the lava because he didn't want to be Ruthless and kill/conquer everyone else). Eventually Parson will "disobey" Stanley (perhaps refusing to kill more people since it's not in self-defense ... this would make Sizemore happy) and be kicked out. Then he has to build his own Side from scratch (I mentioned this in my first post and how cool it would be) and might still be on good terms with the Arkentool wielders but ... not be able to call in hardly any favors from them or else his life would be too easy. From the start everyone in the world will be trying to recruit him by force or persuasion and Parson has to weather this somehow (where the difficulties come in Book 3 or maybe 2 if the story moves along that quickly). To see beyond this point we'd probably have to know the Arkentools' intended purpose and learn more about the history of Erfworld and all that jazz.
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Re: Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby moose o death » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:46 pm

parson not having move is problematic though, his best chance for a future without stanley is to be captured. captured by charlie could be detrimental parson needs to be in charge of charlie not the other way around. he's too much of a snake in the grass to let him make the decisions.

next story jillian will acquire an arkentool, the barbarian queen as it were, whether this turns out to be the fourth or the fifth is speculative (erfworlders know of four, if jillian gets one and it isn't that known one, that makes it the fifth) it will probably give her abilities to control turns and money. the two things a barbarian needs the most.
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Re: Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby Hari Seldon » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:44 pm

parson not having move is problematic though


Yeah even though he can "glide" Banana a short distance (or if he's not high up perhaps ask Banana to simply walk him around even though that's slower), it appears that his Duty to Stanley is preventing him from leaving because he's a Garrison unit in the army (Was he a Garrison even when he was Warlord or was he not? Is Garrison like the lowest rank in the Army - which Parson has just been demoted to - or is it just ... umm ... just their move orders ...
"And we're not even sure you've got move, right? You'd need to be promoted from garrison unit... No, I think for the time being, I'd like to keep you right here in the capital where I can mentor you." Stanley gave him a smile and a finger point. "You've got potential, kiddo. I really mean that. I think we could shape you up and turn you into a real champion."


Wait Stanley has to promote Parson from a Garrison unit to give him move (spend money to upgrade his rank) not just change his move orders ...

OMG Garrison appears to be the lowest rank in the army and it appears that Stanley demoted Parson not just because Ansom has a higher leadership bonus and Parson can still be an armchair general but also (maybe) because Stanely doesn't want Parson to escape (because now he has a Duty to not leave the city)?! Parson should be incensed at having been demoted so low (though it is schmuckers-efficient I suppose).
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Re: Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby moose o death » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:48 pm

garrison isn't a position

it just means he's supposed to stay in the city. garrisoned troops stay in their garrison and protect it.
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Re: Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby DevilDan » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:50 pm

moose o death wrote:garrison isn't a position

it just means he's supposed to stay in the city. garrisoned troops stay in their garrison and protect it.


Possibly gaining some sort of defensive bonus...
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Re: Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby Hari Seldon » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:51 pm

it just means he's supposed to stay in the city. garrisoned troops stay in their garrison and protect it.

Err ... then what does "promoted" mean? Stanley was promoted from Spearman to Overlord via Moneymancy with mucho Schmuckero. How could "promote" not imply that Garrison is not a poistion in the army (like militia is lowest level army (and does not leave it's hometown since that is above their pay grade to fight foreign wars), upgrade them to get them to be able to move outside of the city but that also increases their upkeep).



Possibly gaining some sort of defensive bonus...

Well since Garrisoned units might always protect the city they were popped in (like militia) I suppose that would give them a Will to Fight bonus or something ...

But otherwise no I think Garrison is just a polite term for militia, so they're not all that special.


Here's my guess as to Military Ranks (of non-casters):

0. Citizen (no official military training whatsoever from their Side, though if they happened to be Fur Trappers or something they might actually fight pretty well, especially in forests ...)

1. Garrison (militia, has some official military training but not part of the regular army ... every Citizen of Sweden is this since their government demands military training for everyone) ... maybe units can be popped like this for a very very nominal cost (all Twolls seem to be Garrison even though they are low-level and not meant to fight and instead just be craftsmen except in the most dire need)

2. Infantry

3. Advanced Infantry

4. Heavy? Stack Leader (officer below Warlord and has no global leadership bonuses only leadership for his stack and maybe ... maybe the hex too)?

5. Warlord

6. Chief Warlord
Last edited by Hari Seldon on Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby moose o death » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:58 pm

it has no other meaning than stay here an make sure we don't get obliterated by rcc troops in the next week. like dan said you might be trading your move points for combat strength but that's about it.

it's not a miltary position, and certainly not indicative of ability. stanley keeps his KISS army wherever he is fighting. so right now they would be garrisoned too.good units defending your home are just as valuable.
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Re: Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby Hari Seldon » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:04 pm

*sigh* well anyway we agree that it might be Parson's Duty that is keeping him from leaving the city, not necessarily his move (the first post of this entire thread, what happens if a Garrison unit's city is annihilated around him why can't he move now since his Duty is removed?).
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Re: Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby moose o death » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:48 pm

a city still exists as long as at least one unit stands. if a leader is killed then they are frozen. there is no actual circumstance your question can happen.
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Re: Speculation for Book 2 and 3 and how gaining ability works

Postby Hari Seldon » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:58 pm

Oh ... I didn't consider one-person cities (it's fun how Erfworld is different than Earth :)).

Let me try to frame my question again:

So what happens if a high-level Archer unit gets Garrisoned at a city ... are all of its move taken away or is it Duty that keeps it in that City :twisted:?
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