To whom is Parson actually loyal?

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To whom is Parson actually loyal?

Postby imgran » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:00 pm

Let's say Wanda betrays Gobwin Knob at some point. The presumption is that Parson would be with Stanley, against Wanda. But I think there's some hooks to suggest that that might not be the case.

Parson was summoned by Wanda, not by Stanley. Granted, Stanley paid for the summoning, but the fact that the caster who actually used the spell was a wildcard definitely places Natural Thinkamancy in a gray area. Also one of the first things to happen after he was summoned was that Parson ignored Stanley's request to rise -- until Wanda ratified it. It's a pretty minor point but if Stanley was really his liege lord, he would have had to stand up at the first order, wouldn't he? That's the way it's worked ever since Wanda told Parson to obey Stanley's orders after all.

There's a few events in the aftermath of Book 1 that suggest that too, especially when Wanda says that Parson doesn't need to be afraid of her in a tone that almost suggests she meant it. An odd thing for such a Manipulative Bastard to say.

Anyway, just thought I'd toss that out there as it might make some interesting discussion fodder. A Parson who owes fealty to Wanda and not Stanley would change a few assumptions about the future of Erfworld.
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Re: To whom is Parson actually loyal?

Postby DevilDan » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:09 pm

It's a clever observation regarding Wanda's explanation about how Parson must follow orders. Some of what you suggest is possible; on the other hand, maybe Parson had been getting up off-panel, about as rapidly as he could given the circumstances, i.e. the shock of the "plotting."
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Re: To whom is Parson actually loyal?

Postby pSycHOtic chICkeN » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:43 pm

The same question needs to be asked about all of the decrypted units. Stanley's concern about Wanda and Ansom's success capturing cities might not be an ego problem. He might have good strategic reason to worry.
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Re: To whom is Parson actually loyal?

Postby Emaria » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:51 pm

he did laugh at the bad joke on pg 23. Not sure if it was voluntary, I'd guess not since he doubled over then said "that will take some getting used to". Also, if this were something Wanda was planning she certainly made a big show out of not wanting to be the one to do the summoning. She seems like the type who plans ahead, at least a lot more so than Stanley. But, if that were a consequence of the summoning she didn't know about I'm sure she'd take advantage of it.

I would think the decrypted units would follow Wanda regardless. She "created" them and they wear her insignia. Besides, if she turned on Stanley it wouldn't be much of a plot if she didn't take her decrypted legion with her. Wouldn't be much of a plot if she took Parson either, pretty sure that would be the doom of poor ol' stanley.
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Re: To whom is Parson actually loyal?

Postby yay » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:15 pm

even if parson sides with wanda, i would still consider stanley a threat. he may be a terrible overlord, but he is an excellent warlord. it took eleven other warlords, one of them a cheif warlord and most of them very high leveled, to even get an even shot at taking him head on. give him more than three knights to ride the dwagons, maybe a couple of newly popped GK warlords, and it would take alot to take him out

also i think parson may slowly lose his loyalty stat as a result of declaring himself a player at the end of book one. so his loyalty is no longer tied to an invisible stat, but to those who earn it. like sizemore and maggie
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Re: To whom is Parson actually loyal?

Postby Lord Kasavin » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:34 pm

Parson is loyal to Stanley of course. He is his overlord and when offered a chance to turn, he didn't.

As I understand it, loyalty in Erfworld is believed to be a hidden stat which determines the odds of a unit turning, if given the opportunity. If a unit doesn't turn, Duty compels him to fulfill his or her orders.

Beyond that, Parson (and others) may have some degree of free will as long as it doesn't conflict of with duty.
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Re: To whom is Parson actually loyal?

Postby imgran » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:48 am

Emaria wrote:he did laugh at the bad joke on pg 23.

Sure, but that WAS after Wanda made a comment that could be interpreted as ordering Parson to obey Stanley, so it still fits either way.

Even though he was offpanel it is pretty clear he didn't move to get up until Wanda backed up Stanley's orders.

I'm not suggesting that anything's guaranteed. Just pointing out a potentially interesting gray area.
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Re: To whom is Parson actually loyal?

Postby doran » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:22 pm

An alternative could be similar to what happened during Update 35.

In order for Parson to have to obey has to know he has to obey. Presumably this is a safety measure built into the spell.
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Re: To whom is Parson actually loyal?

Postby DevilDan » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:21 am

imgran wrote:Even though he was offpanel it is pretty clear he didn't move to get up until Wanda backed up Stanley's orders.


As I've suggested before, maybe he stood up as fast as was possible or bearable given the shock he had just experienced.

I like the idea: it's a neat possibility, but too much of a rabbit-pull for my taste.
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Re: To whom is Parson actually loyal?

Postby Yosarian » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:13 pm

Eh. Stanley orders him to slap himself, or tells him he can't talk, or whatever, and parson is completly forced to follow that. It's pretty clear he's loyal to Stanley, and we've never seen Wanda do anything like that.

A "perfect warlord" spell that leaves the warlord loyal to the caster and not the side would actually be a pretty dishonest thing for the Magic Kingdom to sell, especally considering they were probably expecting to have one of their own casters actually summon the warlord (Remember, it was Stanley's idea to have Wanda do it herself to save some money.)
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Re: To whom is Parson actually loyal?

Postby imgran » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:17 pm

Yosarian wrote:Eh. Stanley orders him to slap himself, or tells him he can't talk, or whatever, and parson is completly forced to follow that. It's pretty clear he's loyal to Stanley, and we've never seen Wanda do anything like that.


Bear in mind that Wanda has ordered Parson to obey Stanley. That's what muddies things enough for the question to be worth asking.
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Re: To whom is Parson actually loyal?

Postby spriteless » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:22 pm

Perhaps to fate magic? Whatever that means...
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Re: To whom is Parson actually loyal?

Postby Yosarian » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:08 pm

imgran wrote:
Yosarian wrote:Eh. Stanley orders him to slap himself, or tells him he can't talk, or whatever, and parson is completly forced to follow that. It's pretty clear he's loyal to Stanley, and we've never seen Wanda do anything like that.


Bear in mind that Wanda has ordered Parson to obey Stanley. That's what muddies things enough for the question to be worth asking.


I didn't really read that as an order on Wanda's part. More an observation.
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Re: To whom is Parson actually loyal?

Postby Tyrilean » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:19 am

We've also seen that with a strong show of will, Parson can break the rules of Erfworld, at the end of Book 1. He was able to break the word filter on the world.

Chances are, he just didn't have forewarning that Stanley was going to have him slap himself, so wasn't able to protect against that.
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Re: To whom is Parson actually loyal?

Postby yay » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:13 pm

Tyrilean wrote:We've also seen that with a strong show of will, Parson can break the rules of Erfworld, at the end of Book 1. He was able to break the word filter on the world.

Chances are, he just didn't have forewarning that Stanley was going to have him slap himself, so wasn't able to protect against that.


I don't think he could disobey orders until after he declared himself a player at the end of the book. As such he is still adjusting to life on the erf and his new status as a PC. His kid friendly censor is turned off and he is able to side with whoever he wants. but charlie is to tricky to trust and the RCC wouldn't accept his abnormal status, so he is stuck with GK because it's safe (safer in comparison, i don't think he can be disbanded but he probably can't survive stanley getting pissed and hitting him with the hammer).
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