Caesar: The Heir Designate

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Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby opal » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:09 pm

I think Caesar is going to be in a vulnerable position in the new Royal Crown Coalition. His peers and superiors are Royals who are becoming increasingly fanatic about divine right and excluding non-royals (like Caesar) from being a ruler; as Heir to Translyvito Caesar is very close to being a Reagent. One of his superiors once attacked him for delivering bad news; killing the messenger of bad news is a bad characteristic in a boss.

I'm feeling sympathetic to Caesar and hope he becomes a major character in book 2.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby raphfrk » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:18 pm

opal wrote:I think Caesar is going to be in a vulnerable position in the new Royal Crown Coalition. His peers and superiors are Royals who are becoming increasingly fanatic about divine right and excluding non-royals (like Caesar) from being a ruler; as Heir to Translyvito Caesar is very close to being a Reagent. One of his superiors once attacked him for delivering bad news; killing the messenger of bad news is a bad characteristic in a boss.


Huh, you mean when he stormed out, just before Don King spoke with Jillian, I am not sure that counts as an attack?

We don't know what that represented. Don King might have decided to demote him, or maybe Caesar was to be given Faq's 3 cities as a reward for his service.

Don King might even be popping a royal heir at the moment (though that would seem like a waste).
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby opal » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:03 pm

raphfrk wrote:Huh, you mean when he stormed out, just before Don King spoke with Jillian, I am not sure that counts as an attack?


I'm talking about when Jillian attacked Caesar after he told her the coalition was dissolved. Since Jillian is now queen of FAQ I'm assuming she is now one of his bosses.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby ftl » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:22 pm

opal wrote:I'm talking about when Jillian attacked Caesar after he told her the coalition was dissolved. Since Jillian is now queen of FAQ I'm assuming she is now one of his bosses.


I don't think that makes sense. Caesar's boss is still Don King. Don King happens to be allied with Jillian, but "an ally of my superior" is not necessarily "my superior".

Or does it work that way in Erfworld? If Jillian gives an order, is any unit of Transylvitos required to obey her, since they are allied? I didn't think it works that way, but perhaps I'm wrong.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby DevilDan » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:26 pm

Unless somehow Caesar can be tempted to ally with Stanley, speculation regarding his loyalty seems like a bit picayune, not something that would really be worth it to Rob to write about unless it would be tied in more closely to the main protagonists and action.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby Yosarian » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:31 am

DevilDan wrote:Unless somehow Caesar can be tempted to ally with Stanley, speculation regarding his loyalty seems like a bit picayune, not something that would really be worth it to Rob to write about unless it would be tied in more closely to the main protagonists and action.


Well, or Caeser might be tempted to ally with Charley.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:03 am

ftl wrote:I don't think that makes sense. Caesar's boss is still Don King. Don King happens to be allied with Jillian, but "an ally of my superior" is not necessarily "my superior".

Or does it work that way in Erfworld? If Jillian gives an order, is any unit of Transylvitos required to obey her, since they are allied? I didn't think it works that way, but perhaps I'm wrong.


Yes, your right I believe, it doesn't work that way. In the original Coalition TV didn't send a huge amount of troops to GK, just Vinnie and some bats. Ansom, as Chief Warlord of the coalition forces couldn't just fly over to the TV capital and order more soldiers away.

That's why Vinnie and Jillian had to convince the Don to supply more forces for the Stanley ambush, even with Ansom's blessing.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby noxharrington » Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:42 am

raphfrk wrote:
opal wrote:Don King might even be popping a royal heir at the moment (though that would seem like a waste).


Not a waste necessarily, but tantamount to admitting defeat.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby ftl » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:06 pm

noxharrington wrote:
raphfrk wrote:
opal wrote:Don King might even be popping a royal heir at the moment (though that would seem like a waste).


Not a waste necessarily, but tantamount to admitting defeat.


Planning for defeat is not the same thing as admitting defeat. I find it quite reasonable that Don King may plan for the worst-case scenario - "what if TV gets invaded and I get croaked" - fully expecting to avert that scenario in the first place.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby noxharrington » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:19 pm

ftl wrote:
Planning for defeat is not the same thing as admitting defeat. I find it quite reasonable that Don King may plan for the worst-case scenario - "what if TV gets invaded and I get croaked" - fully expecting to avert that scenario in the first place.


Fair enough. But given the pressing nature of The Tool's advance it would seem to me a pretty fatalistic move - to sacrifice that many turns' worth of producing other units could mean the difference between victory and defeat.

But, it would also be a pretty sweet plot point, making it more plausible.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby raphfrk » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:51 pm

noxharrington wrote:But, it would also be a pretty sweet plot point, making it more plausible.


Right, it would represent Don returning completely to the Royal mandate side.

I wonder what the other members of the RCC felt about his choice of Heir.

Also, it could explain why he only contributed Vinny to the RCC, unlike Slately, he didn't really care if GK's Ruler was an Overlord or King.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby yay » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:51 pm

Yosarian wrote:
DevilDan wrote:Unless somehow Caesar can be tempted to ally with Stanley, speculation regarding his loyalty seems like a bit picayune, not something that would really be worth it to Rob to write about unless it would be tied in more closely to the main protagonists and action.


Well, or Caeser might be tempted to ally with Charley.


i think that is a much more likely scenario. Caesar does not seem to have much patience, so working for the Tool would be unwise. also, i can't see him leading a stack of dwagons. But Charlie and Caesar would probably work well together, and he would have archons to replace his skanks. so know i'm kinda hoping he jumps ship to charlescomm
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby AstralFire » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:33 pm

I favor anything that suggests the possibility of Caesar getting his face plowed in.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby opal » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:47 pm

AstralFire wrote:I favor anything that suggests the possibility of Caesar getting his face plowed in.


Why? From what I've seen he is level headed, listens to advice, and is competent. He seems like a good guy to have for a boss, and a bad guy to have as an enemy.

Personally I don't what Caesar to betray Translyvito. I want to read about Caesar's interaction with Don and the RCC for the same reasons I want to read about Parsons interactions with Stanley the Tool. I'm rooting for them to win.

ftl wrote:
I don't think that makes sense. Caesar's boss is still Don King. Don King happens to be allied with Jillian, but "an ally of my superior" is not necessarily "my superior".

Or does it work that way in Erfworld? If Jillian gives an order, is any unit of Transylvitos required to obey her, since they are allied? I didn't think it works that way, but perhaps I'm wrong.


I don't think Erfworld mechanics forces obedience on allied troops. However I think within the RCCII Royals will have authority over Caesar. Concidering RCCII is on a jihad about royal prerogative to rule, its going to be very awkward for Viscount Caesar, who is both heir to Translyvito and 'barely' a noble.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby Tiger » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:41 pm

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
ftl wrote:I don't think that makes sense. Caesar's boss is still Don King. Don King happens to be allied with Jillian, but "an ally of my superior" is not necessarily "my superior".

Or does it work that way in Erfworld? If Jillian gives an order, is any unit of Transylvitos required to obey her, since they are allied? I didn't think it works that way, but perhaps I'm wrong.


Yes, your right I believe, it doesn't work that way. In the original Coalition TV didn't send a huge amount of troops to GK, just Vinnie and some bats. Ansom, as Chief Warlord of the coalition forces couldn't just fly over to the TV capital and order more soldiers away.

That's why Vinnie and Jillian had to convince the Don to supply more forces for the Stanley ambush, even with Ansom's blessing.

Webinar implies here that warlords can command soldiers of allied sides. I don't see any reason why warlords wouldn't obey the higher-ups of other sides as well, provided that their own superiors were okay with it. Vinnie didn't seem to have any problem working for Ansom, but granted, Ansom never had to directly order Vinnie to do something. I suspect that since Vinnie is "on loan" to FAQ, he's required to obey Jillian so long as her orders don't conflict with Don King's.

Anyway, the point is that a scenario where Caesar has to take orders from Jillian is not implausible.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby AstralFire » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:46 pm

opal wrote:Why? From what I've seen he is level headed, listens to advice, and is competent. He seems like a good guy to have for a boss, and a bad guy to have as an enemy.


He also seems to have a major arrogant and unpersonable streak, based on how he treated Jillian. I'm not a fan, exactly.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby yay » Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:24 pm

AstralFire wrote:
opal wrote:Why? From what I've seen he is level headed, listens to advice, and is competent. He seems like a good guy to have for a boss, and a bad guy to have as an enemy.


He also seems to have a major arrogant and unpersonable streak, based on how he treated Jillian. I'm not a fan, exactly.


His reactions to jillian where justified, bubble kingdoms such as FAQ are almost nonexistant and TV had been in the area for awhile, so assuming she is lying just to croak stanley is normal. also, she did ATTACK him. that is not a great way to make friends. Ceasar has enough charisma and skill to get appointed heir designate of a royal side, something that takes an arkentool for your average piker(that puts his skill equal with dwagons and lightning, as seen in the battle of the pass). also, Don King and Vinny, two smart characters, put there faith in him.

i'm not a caesar fan, but i'm not a hater. i think he is an interesting character, and i hope he gets more screen time in the next book.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby AstralFire » Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:27 pm

I didn't say he was incompetent. That's clearly not the case. I just don't like him because he's come off as a major jerk.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby shadowdemon » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:58 pm

Ceasar was under the impression that the goal was to take Jillians former kingdom as part of Transylvito and then let her go. He was basically dealing with a hostage, one that was at that point trying to kill him for no good reason. Judging Ceasar on how he deals with a violent prisoner really isn't that good a way to judge his character.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby taltamir » Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:05 am

opal wrote:
raphfrk wrote:Huh, you mean when he stormed out, just before Don King spoke with Jillian, I am not sure that counts as an attack?


I'm talking about when Jillian attacked Caesar after he told her the coalition was dissolved. Since Jillian is now queen of FAQ I'm assuming she is now one of his bosses.


at the time she was a barbarian, and his prisoner (they didn't trust her; or believe her), not his boss... Now she is an ally, still not his boss.
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