Caesar: The Heir Designate

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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby DevilDan » Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:36 pm

AstralFire wrote:I didn't say he was incompetent. That's clearly not the case. I just don't like him because he's come off as a major jerk.

I'd be upset at Jill considering that she's been nothing but bad news, and I'd have been as skeptical of her story as he was.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby Almaseti » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:45 am

I think Ceaser and Jillian just got off to a really bad start. At first, he thought she was lying, so it makes sense he'd be less than nice. Then she tried to kill him for being the bearer of bad news. I can see how he would have had a less than stellar opinion of her after that, and for the rest of the time they spent together that dynamic didn't change. The Royalty thing seems to be a sore point with him too, but it's not like Ceaser is a jerk just to be a jerk. He's a jerk because he thinks Jillian doesn't deserve his respect.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby DevilDan » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:08 am

Almaseti wrote:I think Ceaser and Jillian just got off to a really bad start. At first, he thought she was lying, so it makes sense he'd be less than nice. Then she tried to kill him for being the bearer of bad news. I can see how he would have had a less than stellar opinion of her after that, and for the rest of the time they spent together that dynamic didn't change. The Royalty thing seems to be a sore point with him too, but it's not like Ceaser is a jerk just to be a jerk. He's a jerk because he thinks Jillian doesn't deserve his respect.


The traditional Transylvitian perspective is that royalty in and of itself isn't of paramount importance. Don King has suddenly changed the rules, but if it weren't for this change of mind, the logical thing would have been for Transylvito to take over Faq. If anything, it would have meant that only a single city would need to work on an heir, rather than both Faq and Transylvito working on separate heirs. And then you wouldn't have to deal with the "crazy" Jillian or pay her upkeep. From his perspective, based on the normal Transylvitian thinking, it's not a smart choice.

And, yes, Jillian didn't exactly make the best of impressions the whole way through. It's not as if she's even acted as a princess "should."
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby gaiaswill » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:44 pm

Almaseti wrote:The Royalty thing seems to be a sore point with him too, but it's not like Ceaser is a jerk just to be a jerk. He's a jerk because he thinks Jillian doesn't deserve his respect.

Agreed. And if there's anyone who should be accused of being a jerk just to be a jerk, it's Jillian herself, who is deliberately rude and disagreeable because of her daddy issues.

(That said, I'm sure she's mellowed some after becoming queen.)
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby TiMothra » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:35 pm

Caesar is a non-royal heir. Who is the other non-royal heir in the neighborhood? Or, was until fates thrust him into overlordship, to the ire of royals erf-round?

The theory du-jour was that Charlie was behind Saline's overthrow, and Stanley's rise to power along with the associated conflict this generated. By and large, Charlie came out of the great Western Conflict looking rosiest. Royal's vs. non-royals are profitable wars.

Don King can see himself in the same situation; if he croaks, he's got a non-royal taking the throne. Any conservative overlord (and DK strikes me as one) can recognize the parallels to his situation; someone croaks him, and his whole kingdom is a target the same way GK was (of course Stanley helped by irking a lot of people all on his own). The solution? Get a legit heir, and quick into the chain of lineage (though the last three didn't work so well.... fate or Charlie there as well?). There's a lot going on just beneath the surface, and I think DK would be able to pick up on it (he's the savviest living ruler that I can think of, besides Charlie).

The only real difference, was people (Ansom) believed that Stanley had overthrown and killed Saline, personally. Whereas Caesar would never... Well... who just got sent into a potentially bad situation against a Shockamancer? And who was left to take down an Arkenhammer wielder, w/o back up (wouldn't you know, Charlie just wanted too much for services...)

I see Charlie's hand playing in TV the same as he was in GK the same way as he was in Faq the same way he (probably) is in Jetstone (bear in mind, there is 0 background on how anyone came to hold the hammer or the pliers). Unless some warlord named Brutus shows up in Book 2, I expect to see the line 'Et tu, Caesar?' in print before too long.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby DevilDan » Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:18 pm

Not to veer to far off-topic, but since it's been brought up... what if GK took Faq before Stanley's death? Then it's possible that Wanda, seeking an arkentool, was then responsible for plotting Saline's death.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby sheepfly » Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:32 pm

DevilDan wrote:Not to veer to far off-topic, but since it's been brought up... what if GK took Faq before Stanley's death? Then it's possible that Wanda, seeking an arkentool, was then responsible for plotting Saline's death.


Stanley definitely did sack FAQ before Saline's death. (http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F147.jpg) Notice Wanda says Stanley was a Warlord, not an Overlord. And Wanda's possible involvement in the gobwin insurrection has been discussed quite thoroughly. On the other hand, the fact that Charlie knows how to turn natural allies against their rulers/sides makes it possible that he was involved. While the theories are not 100% mutually exclusive, we can be pretty sure that SOMEONE pulled something fishy with the GK gobwins, Thinkamancy and/or money were involved, and whoever it was is responsible for the regicide of Saline IV.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby Scipion » Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:53 pm

Caesar actually is a Royal, barely, but he still is.

This does lead to the confusing problem of....How can you be "barely" royal??
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby Darkside007 » Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:08 pm

sheepfly wrote:
DevilDan wrote:Not to veer to far off-topic, but since it's been brought up... what if GK took Faq before Stanley's death? Then it's possible that Wanda, seeking an arkentool, was then responsible for plotting Saline's death.


Stanley definitely did sack FAQ before Saline's death. (http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F147.jpg) Notice Wanda says Stanley was a Warlord, not an Overlord. And Wanda's possible involvement in the gobwin insurrection has been discussed quite thoroughly. On the other hand, the fact that Charlie knows how to turn natural allies against their rulers/sides makes it possible that he was involved. While the theories are not 100% mutually exclusive, we can be pretty sure that SOMEONE pulled something fishy with the GK gobwins, Thinkamancy and/or money were involved, and whoever it was is responsible for the regicide of Saline IV.


The current theory is that Stanley's 'special mission' was the sacking of FAQ, so if it just happened to be good luck for Stanley that Charlie launched the Gobwin regicide then, Wanda's story still fits completely.

Also, I can see why you'd bring Misty, Sizemore and Maggie to the battle. (intel, locking down the tunnels and radio intel, respectively)

The only hole in the plot would be why Stanley trusts the gobwins after that, but it seems that he only trusts the Hobgobwins, and not the gobwins themselves. (Being two seperate races.)
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby Darkside007 » Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:08 pm

Scipion wrote:Caesar actually is a Royal, barely, but he still is.

This does lead to the confusing problem of....How can you be "barely" royal??


He's a low-ranking Noble, not a Royal.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:43 pm

TiMothra wrote:Caesar is a non-royal heir. Who is the other non-royal heir in the neighborhood? Or, was until fates thrust him into overlordship, to the ire of royals erf-round?


If Caesar became ruler he would be a regent, something the other royals could live with,as long as he preserves the royal supremacy. One of the sides in the RCC II, Hyatt, is already a regency and the others have no problem with that. The problem with Stanley is, that he claims to be better than royals, something they can't accept.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby valce » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:53 pm

There's a good chance Caesar will try to defect to Stanley, or otherwise get out of a situation where he has become a liability. Unfortunately, I suspect Caesar will be a casualty of this coming conflict...

Unfortunate because I rather like the character. He's got a solid no-nonsense attitude to business (his treatment of Jillian, as others have pointed out, is appropriate given the situation. And let's not forget that Caesar didn't get to where he is by playing Mr. Nice Guy.), and a sensitive side!

Actually I think I like Caesar much more than Jillian, even though the latter probably has far better plot armor :P

Plus you know, a vampire named after one of history's great conquerors? Awesome :)

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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby raphfrk » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:17 am

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:If Caesar became ruler he would be a regent, something the other royals could live with,as long as he preserves the royal supremacy. One of the sides in the RCC II, Hyatt, is already a regency and the others have no problem with that. The problem with Stanley is, that he claims to be better than royals, something they can't accept.


It is unclear what Regency actually means. It might mean a non-Royal heir became Ruler while a Royal was popping.

Another possibility would be that a non-Royal was designated Heir (and became Ruler), even though the side still had some Royal units.

That might even be Don King's plan. He will pop a Royal Heir, so that his line is maintained, but leave Caesar as first in the line of succession.

However, he does seem to have gone idealistic. His comments to Jillian seem to indicate that he has decided a meritocracy is not the way to go.
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Re: Caesar: The Heir Designate

Postby TiMothra » Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:03 pm

Regency here really seems to be a joke off of the Hyatt hotels. But people are pretty correct, explaining regent as a non-royal placeholder (benchwarmer) to rule while the *actual* royal is unavailable. Historically, this was to give time for the true king to come of age. I'm thinking of FF Tactics on PS, way back when, where the whole war was between two nobles fighting a war over who would get to be regent for the child king. This however would not come up as units (aside from livestock...) don't age turn-wise, they just pop in maturity. Therefore, the Regent could stand in for that 60 turns for an heir to pop, should one be in the works when the overlord croaks. Or, say, there is another royal who is not the heir for some reason, who then pops the heir while the Regent rules for those 60 turns again. Either way, a temporary thing and there's no indication that the Hyatt Regency isn't in the middle of just that.

Another good example is in LOTR, the steward of Gondor is similar to a regent. If you remember the movie, he had to sit in the little clerk chair at the bottom of the steps leading up to the *good* chair (a pretty good visual scene), but by all rights he was the ruler. He even resisted when the actual king did show up. Hilarity ensued. Again, I don't necessarily see this coming up in Erfworld, excepting the case of Jillian and Faq. Jillian totally went Aragorn, wandering around distant lands ronin-style, before making her way back for a triumphant return. But it was just a free capital site, not some steward/regent there, being acting-overlord and preserving her lands in any way. But maybe the Hyatians would have set up something like that, a temporary Regent who was holding overlordship while the ruler was a field and died.
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