Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

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Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby Aster Azul » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:01 am

I'm sure we're all chomping at the bit to play an Erfworld-Themed strategy game. Knowing that anything like it is at the very least 2 years or so off, anybody have any recommendations for some good videogames in this vein?

I like those strategy games that are short, colorful, and have some fun tricks and exploits you have to be thoughtful and clever to figure out. Yggdra Union and the Final Fantasy Tactics series come to mind, (except for the 'short' bit, those games are never short.) Any other good recommendations? I've got a PS2 shipping to me from the US, so I'll finally be able to get a piece of gaming action.
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Re: Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby hajo » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:46 am

Aster Azul wrote:any recommendations for some good videogames in this vein?
I've got a PS2 shipping to me from the US

There is no game that really fits for Erfworld, the system for magic is uniq,
we have seen only a few types of casters yet, also only a few unit-stats.

I don't know consoles, but for PC i can recommand some free/open-source games:
* Battle of Wesnoth - Turnbased, fantasy
* Advanced Strategic Command - Turnbased, SF, like Battle Isle
* Warzone 2100 - Realtime, SF, like C&C
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Re: Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby mutecebu » Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:08 am

Civilization (PC) is pretty Erfworld-esque

Fire Emblem has the RPG elements. Every unit is a character, you have about 20 or so, each with different inventory and stats. They level up as they fight. If they die in combat, they're dead for the rest of the game (yikes!) You usually pick favorites and get attached to certain characters. Personally, my favorite strategy game around. I've used the same "mount relay" trick in that game that Parson used in Erfworld.

Advance Wars is another good series of turn-based strategy.
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Re: Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby Wollem » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:11 pm

Age of Wonders series: has easily the most erfworldlike mechanics of any game. Hexes, fantasy setting with castable overland magic spells (combat spells too, of course); stacks of units that can engage other stacks of units; towns that are mostly captured but rarely ever built; focus on combat rather than town buildings; "heroes" that can among other things have leadership and sometimes cast spells, and can upgrade; nonhero units can upgrade too but the mechanic with them is very simple; has diplomacy between sides.

Master of Magic: predecessor of Age of Wonders. Had an incredible amount of details (as well as bugs; but what separates Erfworld from any strategy game actually realizable on computers, is mostly its detailedness), but it didnt work with hexes but squares.

Warlords 2: No castable overland spells, and no hexes - but in other aspects - has stacks of units; heroes that can upgrade and give leadership; has diplomacy between sides; has towns that cannot be built (but can be razed) and have to be captured; a very defining feature is that there are no "races", but different towns can have any set of 1-4 recruitable units, set in place by the scenario designer - eg of the default maps, (almost) all cities can produce spearmen, many can produce scouts, light & heavy cavalry are a bit less common; but eg Wizards and Devils may often be recruited by 0-1 towns in the whole huge map (out of some 50-100). Like Erfworld, cities are characterized by their appearance (description in Warlords 2) and very simple stats (levels and defenses in Erfworld, goldgiving level and defensebonus in Warlords 2)

***

Named games that are not as erfworldish:

Wesnoth: No true "towns", just keeps where you can recruit units, and villages that give you money; you cannot upgrade keeps/villages. Fantasy setting, but no castable magic spells. Does have hexes, but can only have one unit per hex. Units can upgrade like in Erfworld, but there are no "heroes" like Erfworld has Warlords - they are just common units whose death means defeat.

Civilizations: Civ does not have magic; Civ's focal point is building facilities in cities while combat is very simple (Erfworld does not seem to have any significant stress on buiding up cities - just a level, and appearance - but combat is very complicated); Civ is not hex-based. Try Master of Magic instead, it is largely based on Civ, but much more Erfworldish.

Fire Emblem: I have not played, but from what Ive seen/heard, its just another turn-based japanese rpg.

Final Fantasy Tactics: I have not played, but from what Ive seen/heard, its just another turn-based japanese rpg.
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Re: Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby elliotbay » Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:10 pm

Wollem wrote:Fire Emblem: I have not played, but from what Ive seen/heard, its just another turn-based japanese rpg.

Final Fantasy Tactics: I have not played, but from what Ive seen/heard, its just another turn-based japanese rpg.


I have played representatives of both series, and what makes them not a typical turn-based JRPG is that the focus tends to be on positioning your units well rather than choosing the right menu command. I enjoy them both, and would recommend them, but I would agree that I don't think it counts as Erfworld-like.
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Re: Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby Yosarian » Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:21 pm

Wollem wrote:Fire Emblem: I have not played, but from what Ive seen/heard, its just another turn-based japanese rpg.

Final Fantasy Tactics: I have not played, but from what Ive seen/heard, its just another turn-based japanese rpg.


Not really; they are tactical games, where you position your units on the battlefield and then use abilites. Final Fantasy tactics actually is very much like erfworld; it's basically a tactical stratagy game with RPG units that gain levels, like in Erfworld, but there's stratagy involved (what kind of units do you want, what abilities do you want them to have, keep your archers away from their heavy units, ect). The big difference is that you're only dealing with 8 or so units on a side.

That's the thing about Erfworld; there's both a grand stratigic level, and a tactical level. The stratigic level seems to be very strongly based on the civilization games; you have cities that produce units, buildings in those cities that make them do stuff better, turn based armies, ect. Except in civ, there's no tactical control.
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Re: Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby Amplify » Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:38 pm

I feel the "Heroes of Might and Magic" series shares a number of similarities to Erfworld, if you overlook the pop culture refrences and "uniqueness" of Erfworld.
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Re: Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby Lord Kasavin » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:21 pm

CIvilization IV, especially the Beyond the Sword expansion (which just makes it better) and the all but mandatory mod Fall from Heaven II (which requires BtS), which turns Historical Civilization into Fantasy.

My other recomonendation is Dominions 3. Its an indie title with a very rich multiplayer. It also has a very robust magic system.

To a lesser degree, check out Fantasy general. Its actually played on hexed, but for the most part is a battle by batle game and not a long term strategy game.

Edit: I should also mention that most of my MP experience in strategy games comes from Dom3. A computer from the 90's should be able to run it, the techs that low. I highly recommend strategy fans check it out.
Last edited by Lord Kasavin on Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby Yosarian » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:56 pm

Oh, and since you asked about the PS2, I think some of the "Romance of the three kingdom's" games are interesting strategy games, with quite a bit of depth. Pretty much the only problem is that once you have a really well developed city putting out tons of siege units, the AI dosn't really know how to respond.
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Re: Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby Pindanin » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:31 pm

Heroes of Might and Magic is seconded.
Normal unit lead by a hero that gives the units in its "stack" based on his abilities. The hero can cast spells. Both in combat and overland spells.
Certain towns spawn certain units. Units can be combined in stacks but can suffer morale problems if teamed with enemies.
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Re: Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby Wollem » Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:08 pm

Yosarian wrote:Not really; they are tactical games, where you position your units on the battlefield and then use abilites.

I assumed that's what all japanese rpgs are like? Never played any...

Final Fantasy tactics actually is very much like erfworld; it's basically a tactical stratagy game with RPG units that gain levels, like in Erfworld, but there's stratagy involved (what kind of units do you want, what abilities do you want them to have, keep your archers away from their heavy units, ect).

All strategy games in existence with rpg elements would qualify as Erfworld-like by that.

That's the thing about Erfworld; there's both a grand stratigic level, and a tactical level. The stratigic level seems to be very strongly based on the civilization games; you have cities that produce units, buildings in those cities that make them do stuff better, turn based armies, ect.

You could say that about almost any strategy game

Except in civ, there's no tactical control.

You really should try Master of Magic - it is heavily based on civ 1 in particular, but has tactical control and fantasy setting and castable spells and heroes and whatnot - and it's just a good game, too.

***

HoMM is pretty similar I guess. Maybe the biggest difference is (aside from no hexes and no diplomacy) the stack system differences.
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Re: Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby Incomptinence » Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:18 pm

I haven't played Dominions 3 but it could be kinda similar in that is has a wide unit selection, fantasy, turn based and a spell system.
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Re: Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby Jatopian » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:38 pm

Wollem wrote:
Yosarian wrote:Not really; they are tactical games, where you position your units on the battlefield and then use abilites.

I assumed that's what all japanese rpgs are like? Never played any...
You assumed... very poorly.
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Re: Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby Aster Azul » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:30 am

Yeah, my brother is NUTS on the Fire Emblem! Those are definitely great, great games. My only problem is they make me totally OCD. I can almost never finish one. I wrote a flipping C++ script for the Gamecube version to analyze the mechanics of the game and determine the best support numbers *shudder*. Those games are great, though, I've got to figure out a way to be less of a jerk and enjoy them more. Brilliantly written.

So, I'm going to give Wesnoth a try. It seems like it could be interesting. I'm trusting you guys, here! This better rule!
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Re: Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby Aster Azul » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:20 pm

Hm, I tried Wesnoth. I did the tutorial and then half of the "Two Brothers" campaign. It's alright, but it's a little slow-paced for me... (although, that's probably because of the slow-ass way I play.)

Is there a really good "beginner" campaign that I should play to totally convince me of the awesome?
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Re: Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby Roketter » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:40 pm

I've tried lots of strategy games, i'd say the ones closest to Erfworld mechanics are Age of Wonders, and Medieval, total War.

Age of Wonders has different races, barbarian units, faction leaders, spells, an in-battle engine, overland spells, fantastic units, hex-system, diplomacy, heroes, stacks, cities that get upgraded from tier 1 to tier 4, cities can be razed and rebuilt but not created, experience system, etc.

The Medieval total war series are not fantastically based, but follow a specific ruler and Heir System that works very well. So you can't just kill the king and win the war against France, you must first destroy his faction heir, then the leader, and his side will be over, units turning neutral. Also, the battle system in the "Total war" series, is among the best.
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Re: Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby Aster Azul » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:35 am

So, I played Wesnoth on the campaign mode a little bit. Meh, whatever. For some reason, I came back to it. I'm like, eh, it's okay. So, today, me and my brother start up the multiplayer and run a versus match.

Oh, my god. It was amazing. The unit types, the fascinating way levelling works, the immense character the sprites have, and, most of all, the deceptive SIMPLICITY of it all... Incredible! This is one of the best games I've ever played on multi. It's short and sweet, but clever and challenging, like chess, but it also has just enough random element to it that it's always worth playing through and seeing what happens. Yeah, and the random stuff is great, too. The random traits the characters get, not quite knowing what the result of a conflict will be. It just starts interesting and stays interesting. Great work.

Thanks to the people who recommended it! I'm having so much fun!
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Re: Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby carisbourg » Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:28 pm

hajo wrote:* Battle of Wesnoth - Turnbased, fantasy


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Re: Best Erfworldish Strategy Games

Postby Godsire » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:27 am

Age of Wonders (I and II) and Heroes of might and magic really come close to what Erfworld is about.
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