What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Speculation, discoveries, complaints, accusations, praise, and all other Erfworld discussion.

Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby Lilwik » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:58 am

ftl wrote:A paddlewheel barge. Stated as Turnamancy.
What's complex about a paddlewheel barge in Erfworld? Jillian just "willed" it to go and it went. It sounds like she didn't need to shovel coal, didn't need to even manage a rudder. Does it have any real controls? Jillian abandons the barge before we learn anything more about it. If there is evidence of it being a complex machine in there somewhere, I can't find it.

YesNinja wrote:There are subtle and forthright spells for each discipline, as has been shown in numerous examples in the thread.
I don't see any obvious examples of forthright spells for Fate axis or Numbers axis disciplines. Can you be more specific about which examples you mean? Wanda uncroaking an entire army at once comes to mind, but that's Naughtymancy.
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby ftl » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:04 am

What's complex about a paddlewheel barge in Erfworld? Jillian just "willed" it to go and it went. It sounds like she didn't need to shovel coal, didn't need to even manage a rudder. Does it have any real controls? Jillian abandons the barge before we learn anything more about it. If there is evidence of it being a complex machine in there somewhere, I can't find it.


The fact that it's a paddlewheel barge. Look it up, it's a pretty complicated thing. Easy to operate of course, in the same sense that a car is easy to operate, you tell it which direction to go and it goes there. Why would you think the internal workings are simple?
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby ftl » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:08 am

If you think of that as simple, I can't remember a single thing in erfworld that would count as complex! Parson's bracer maybe?

But even that is simple to operate. You give it a question and it gives you an answer.

Golems? They're simple to operate, you give them an order and they do it.
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby YesNinja » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:11 am

Lilwik wrote:
YesNinja wrote:There are subtle and forthright spells for each discipline, as has been shown in numerous examples in the thread.
I don't see any obvious examples of forthright spells for Fate axis or Numbers axis disciplines. Can you be more specific about which examples you mean? Wanda uncroaking an entire army at once comes to mind, but that's Naughtymancy.



Well, I'd argue that most of the Dittomancy we've seen is pretty forthright. It's mostly been just doubling arrows and such. That's fairly straightforward. The only Moneymancy we've seen has been (I believe) turning gems into schmuckers. That's also not particularly subtle, as it seems to be essentially smushing schmuckers together to make one, easier to carry thing.

As for Fate magic? Well, you already mentioned Croakamancy. Other than that, Predictamancy doesn't seem particularly subtle. It's telling the future with a 100% degree of accuracy. You see the future, and you know it. That's it. Predictamancers themselves make it complicated by not saying what they see, talking mumbo jumbo, and in general being annoying. But that's a different matter. Other than that, Signamancy seems to only have had forthright examples so far! If you are a certain way, or behave a certain way, you look a certain way. Erfworld is the epitome of judging a book by its cover. And being right!



Like I said, though, we mostly really only have examples from things that we've seen more specific spells of. Like Dirtamancy.
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby ftl » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:15 am

If anything, it's people around predictamancers that make it complicated.

Predictamancers say exactly what they see will happen in the future, and then the idiots around them seem to try to avoid it! When the predictamancer has just told them straight out that it will happen!
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby Lilwik » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:36 am

ftl wrote:Easy to operate of course, in the same sense that a car is easy to operate, you tell it which direction to go and it goes there.
That's not how cars work in Stupidworld, unless you're radically simplifying how they are controlled. Not even an automatic transmission is quite that simple.

ftl wrote:Why would you think the internal workings are simple?
Mostly because the controls are simple. I picture it having a wheel or two and a place to sit, and otherwise you just will where you want to go and it magically obeys, probably without even having an "on" switch. I wish it were better described in Book 0, but from what little we get, that's what I picture.

YesNinja wrote:Well, I'd argue that most of the Dittomancy we've seen is pretty forthright. It's mostly been just doubling arrows and such. That's fairly straightforward.
It is pretty straightforward, but it still needs something to copy. Compare that to Dirtamancy that just makes stuff. It's like Joe said: "Git 'r done!" On the surface Dirtamancy seems far more powerful than Dittomancy since Dirtamancy doesn't need to copy things, but I'm sure that's balanced by Dirtamancy being limited to more crude stuff, like buildings and dirt-based structures, while Dittomancy can copy anything, even units.

YesNinja wrote:The only Moneymancy we've seen has been (I believe) turning gems into schmuckers.
Clevermancy is the only class where it's not clear that any of the disciplines is less subtle than the others. Perhaps there's something special about it that justifies it being an exception to the pattern. It is the only class that is aligned with no elements. But on the other hand we've seen very little about that class so I'm eagerly waiting for us to learn more and properly settle that issue. Until then, I'm just going to suspect that maybe Luckamancy is somehow less subtle than the other disciplines of Clevermancy.

YesNinja wrote:Other than that, Predictamancy doesn't seem particularly subtle. It's telling the future with a 100% degree of accuracy. You see the future, and you know it. That's it. Predictamancers themselves make it complicated by not saying what they see, talking mumbo jumbo, and in general being annoying.
Whatever the reason, it does get complicated. I can't imagine a version of Findamancy that would be nearly as troublesome.

YesNinja wrote:Signamancy seems to only have had forthright examples so far! If you are a certain way, or behave a certain way, you look a certain way. Erfworld is the epitome of judging a book by its cover. And being right!
That's a very good point. Signamancy is one of those disciplines that I would love to learn more about. What exactly does a Signamancer do? We've seen that any regular nonmagical Erfworlder can look at a person and judge the Signamancy, so I expect that Signamancers do more than that. Perhaps they see the subtle details that the average unit would miss.

ftl wrote:They say exactly what they see the future will be, and then the idiots around them seem to try to avoid it! When the predictamancer has just told them straight out that it will happen!
That amazes me too. I keep waiting for someone to take some Predictamancy and use it properly in this story.
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby ftl » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:21 am

Lilwik wrote:
ftl wrote:Easy to operate of course, in the same sense that a car is easy to operate, you tell it which direction to go and it goes there.
That's not how cars work in Stupidworld, unless you're radically simplifying how they are controlled. Not even an automatic transmission is quite that simple.

ftl wrote:Why would you think the internal workings are simple?
Mostly because the controls are simple. I picture it having a wheel or two and a place to sit, and otherwise you just will where you want to go and it magically obeys, probably without even having an "on" switch. I wish it were better described in Book 0, but from what little we get, that's what I picture.


Interestingly, I have exactly the same picture as you of how to operate it. You sit in it and will it to do things and it magically obeys. I agree entirely with that. I just don't think that means that it's a particularly simple thing.

Its controls are exactly the same as a golem or a living unit - you will it to do something and it does it.

Stupidworld is more complicated because it doesn't have natural thinkamancy, you can't 'will' anything to do anything. That's the thing that makes Erfworld controls simpler - instead of pressing buttons to do things, you just think. But that's not specific to turnamancy - that's how "controlling things" works in general. It's how you give orders to living creatures, for instance - words are optional, you think the order and the units do it.

In stupidworld cars are pretty simple to operate, mine at least. I press a button to turn it on. Pull a lever to put it in drive. Press a pedal to make it go forward or stop, turn the wheel the way I want it to go. Button to turn it off. We don't have thinkamancy, so the things you want the car to do (go, stop, turn) each have a simple button to press to do to make it do it, a button or lever or wheel. But that doesn't reveal even a tiny smidgen of the complexity that goes on under the hood!

Take the simplest possible command to the car - "Go forward", communicated by pressing the gas pedal. Pretty simple from my end, I press down on the pedal and my car goes forward. But the stuff going on is actually pretty complicated. I've got a Prius hybrid, so when I press the 'gas' pedal, that's I think basically just an input to the onboard computer - the computer has to decide whether that actually means running the gasoline engine, or it means running the electric engine off battery, or some combination of the two (perhaps using the gas engine to generate more power than it needs right now, to charge the battery?), or whatever the hell else the other complexities are. It's a pretty complicated mechanical system, and I have only the vaguest idea what's going on there. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_veh ... lel_hybrid ) (Oh, and that's not even mentioning all the complexity that's hidden in the phrase I used earlier - "a computer decides..." Computers are pretty complicated!)

All that, just by pressing the pedal.

I don't think the simplicity of controls has much correlation at all to the simplicity (or not) of what's going on underneath. User Interface deigners spend a lot of work into making very complicated things have very simple controls.

In erfworld, Natural Thinkamancy is available as a control scheme. So we really have no idea how complicated something based on the knowledge that "you will it to do something and it does it".
Last edited by ftl on Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby YesNinja » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:24 am

Lilwik wrote:That amazes me too. I keep waiting for someone to take some Predictamancy and use it properly in this story.



Honestly, though, I can't even think of how I'd use it. Or why having a predictamancer would really be useful at all, barring certain specific (FAQ) cases. If everything is a forgone conclusion, how does it help?


Even with FAQ, though, think about it. If Fate is the same, then with or without a predictamancer FAQ wouldn't have been discovered. Maybe it wouldn't have been as convenient, but still. I wonder if they only seem so useless because we've been seeing a lot of characters that Fate really cares about. Maybe in the far reaches of Erfworld in Ran-Doomas kingdom, Predictamancers are actually really useful, since Fate doesn't actually take an active role in their lives. Just speculating, of course.
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby ftl » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:28 am

FAQ provides an example of how to use it. You see the prediction and WORK WITH IT.

They survived for such a long time by having Marie Predict where enemy units will be, and then not leaving any units in those hexes, or making sure that the cities in those hexes were veiled. That's a Prediction that's useful - the location of an enemy!

A predictamancer predicts you'll be ambushed? Great! Make sure you bring a huge army and crush the ambushing force. A predictamancer predicts you won't be ambushed? Feel free to send valuable units ahead undefended.

If A predictamancer Predicts where an enemy is going to be next turn? set an ambush and kick their butts!
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby Lilwik » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:48 am

ftl wrote:In erfworld, Natural Thinkamancy is available as a control scheme. So we really have no idea how complicated something based on the knowledge that "you will it to do something and it does it".
Yes, that all makes sense, but the end conclusion is that we have no idea how complicated the paddlewheel barge was, so it's not very convincing evidence of anything. I also have another reason for suspect that it's not complicated, though it's not a very good one. It just seems to me that the disciplines of a class should fit together, sharing similarities but complementing each other so they aren't interchangeable. Dollamancy looks like the discipline that builds things. If Turnamancy also builds things, then it's not complementing Dollamancy, it's overshadowing Dollamancy. Of course I've got no problem with Turnamancy building simple things, but only so long as Turnamancy is limited in what it can build in ways that Dollamancy isn't limited.

I'm aware that it's not real evidence, but where do we ever see one discipline totally overlap another discipline?
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby Shai_hulud » Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:56 pm

Lilwik wrote:I'm aware that it's not real evidence, but where do we ever see one discipline totally overlap another discipline?
Foolamancy and Thinkamancy can both create invisible communications between units. They just have different ways of using those same phenomenon. Why would you assume Turnamancy is more powerful than Dollamancy if it can make complex machines? I mean, Dollamancers can not only already create mounts for transports, but it can make intelligent ones that don't need a pilot. Does that mean Dollamancy is better than Turnamancy just because they have one sort of similar application of the same element? You think yes... for some reason? It seems your logic for claiming that Turnamancy is "crude" magic is that it's not complex. And you know it's not complex... because it's crude! If P is true then N is true, if N is true then P is true. P is true, therefor P is true, because P is true! Yay Logic!
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby Lilwik » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:25 pm

Shai_hulud wrote:Foolamancy and Thinkamancy can both create invisible communications between units.
Of course they are both part of the same class, so it makes sense for a Foolamancer to know a little Thinkamancy; they are different aspects of the same type of magic. But even assuming that pure Foolamancy is involved with no Thinkamancy, that's not Foolamancy overshadowing Thinkamancy because it's never happened across multiple hexes, which is one of the biggest things that makes Thinkamancy useful. Also, Thinkamancy can do far more than convey messages; it can convey orders and intentions, so that when a warlord sends a Thinkamancy message to troops the troops can sense whether what he is saying is an order or not as well as what he really wants them to do instead of actually having to rely upon their interpretation of his words. I expect that Foolamancy would only give them a very believable image of the warlord speaking with none of the Thinkamancy aspects.

Shai_hulud wrote:Why would you assume Turnamancy is more powerful than Dollamancy if it can make complex machines?
Because then I've never seen anything that Dollamancy can do to make up for what it would have lost to Turnamancy. Turnamancy is very powerful with the many ways it can be used, and now we're giving it the ability to build complex machines too. All that's left for Dollamancy is the golems (assuming we're not giving that to Turnamancy too, while we're busy giving powers to Turnamancy), and Turnamancy vehicles seem like a pretty good substitute for cloth mounts. Given all that, I fail to see how it's possible for Dollamancy to be considered equal in power to Turnamancy.

It seems your logic for claiming that Turnamancy is "crude" magic is that it's not complex. And you know it's not complex... because it's crude!
No, my reason for suspecting that Turnamancy is not complex is reading the comic and seeing how complex Dollamancy is, assuming that Turnamancy can't do what Dollamancy does, on top of seeing a pattern across other classes of magic where the Erf-axis discipline usually seems less complex than the other disciplines of the class. I don't know that Turnamancy is not complex.
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby YesNinja » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:35 pm

Lilwik wrote:
Shai_hulud wrote:Why would you assume Turnamancy is more powerful than Dollamancy if it can make complex machines?
Because then I've never seen anything that Dollamancy can do to make up for what it would have lost to Turnamancy. Turnamancy is very powerful with the many ways it can be used, and now we're giving it the ability to build complex machines too. All that's left for Dollamancy is the golems (assuming we're not giving that to Turnamancy too, while we're busy giving powers to Turnamancy), and Turnamancy vehicles seem like a pretty good substitute for cloth mounts. Given all that, I fail to see how it's possible for Dollamancy to be considered equal in power to Turnamancy.



I dunno! I feel like we've seen Turnamancers getting used by geniuses, but we've really only ever seen a hard-headed, traditional ruler use a Dollamancer. Now that Parson's getting a chance to use a Dollamancer for something OTHER than Golems, I really feel like we're going to see a HUGE jump in relative power.
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby Shai_hulud » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:47 pm

Yeah, I've been assuming both are complex, but they both do different things/kinds of machines. Never seen a Dollamancer build things with gears and motors or manipulate time yet for instance, but we've seen them building what appears to be magic AIs, jet packs, and wands/blasters that discharge energy bolts. Even if they can both create things you can ride and "machines", the ones made by Turnamancers might be completely different styles of machinery from a Dollamancers.

Hey, Turnamancy Video
Paper Dollamancy?
Turnamancy Factory Video?
Dollamancy Factory Video?

Also just for the hell of it, paper piano?
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby Lipkin » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:07 am

All I know is I want a Turnamancer to link with a Rhyme-o-mancer to create a set of turn-tables. In my head, Rhyme-o-mancers are all rappers, and Doctor Seus.
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby mantimeforgot » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:16 am

Considering the axis of Spookism it seems pretty obvious to me what Turnamancy, Dollamancy, and Weirdomancy are all about.

Turnamancy determines where something moves. So it can change sides because movement is an INNATE quality for Erfworld. To move is to be a part of a given side; have no movement? then you are either not a part of that side or you are garrison... With this in mind a Turnamancy based vessel is flowing through the river or air or with the land. Where something is headed is also an important sense: you could presumably create Turnamancy based defenses that turn away blade strikes or arrows (possibly spell turning? Not sure since at no point have I seen an indication that Shockamancy includes things like Fireballs and Lightning blasts except for the possible exception of the air defenses around Gobwin Knob)

Dollamancy imparts motion (again in both the physical and metaphysical senses). So you can take inanimate stuff and grant it motion; including turning it into an NPC.

Weirdomancy determines how something moves. You can change the qualities of motion: adding specials or removing them, and presumably could alter how much distance something achieves (adding moves or subtracting moves in the form of altering your movement stat). I suspect a Weirdomancer might be able to alter something to become a garrison unit based on this.


I also think folks should consider that the arkenshoes are just as much Weirdomancy as they are Turnamancy. If you want to alter how something gets from point A to point B, then its using Weirdomancy not Turnamancy.

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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby Shai_hulud » Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:30 pm

Orrrrr...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVxbNZWLP60
Note the designers name.
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby mantimeforgot » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:09 am

Lilwik wrote:
Shai_hulud wrote:Foolamancy and Thinkamancy can both create invisible communications between units.
Of course they are both part of the same class, so it makes sense for a Foolamancer to know a little Thinkamancy; they are different aspects of the same type of magic. But even assuming that pure Foolamancy is involved with no Thinkamancy, that's not Foolamancy overshadowing Thinkamancy because it's never happened across multiple hexes, which is one of the biggest things that makes Thinkamancy useful. Also, Thinkamancy can do far more than convey messages; it can convey orders and intentions, so that when a warlord sends a Thinkamancy message to troops the troops can sense whether what he is saying is an order or not as well as what he really wants them to do instead of actually having to rely upon their interpretation of his words. I expect that Foolamancy would only give them a very believable image of the warlord speaking with none of the Thinkamancy aspects.

Shai_hulud wrote:Why would you assume Turnamancy is more powerful than Dollamancy if it can make complex machines?
Because then I've never seen anything that Dollamancy can do to make up for what it would have lost to Turnamancy. Turnamancy is very powerful with the many ways it can be used, and now we're giving it the ability to build complex machines too. All that's left for Dollamancy is the golems (assuming we're not giving that to Turnamancy too, while we're busy giving powers to Turnamancy), and Turnamancy vehicles seem like a pretty good substitute for cloth mounts. Given all that, I fail to see how it's possible for Dollamancy to be considered equal in power to Turnamancy.

It seems your logic for claiming that Turnamancy is "crude" magic is that it's not complex. And you know it's not complex... because it's crude!
No, my reason for suspecting that Turnamancy is not complex is reading the comic and seeing how complex Dollamancy is, assuming that Turnamancy can't do what Dollamancy does, on top of seeing a pattern across other classes of magic where the Erf-axis discipline usually seems less complex than the other disciplines of the class. I don't know that Turnamancy is not complex.




In general it seems to me that the Erf axis is concerned with the question of "Where;" the Fate axis concerned with the questions of "Why" or "If;" and the Numbers axis concerned with the question of "How." If you consider the amount of bleed over into other disciplines is possible given high levels casters, and the strength of the works capable when working linked I do not see how anyone can make strong claims about complexity or superiority of the axes or the branches. The folks in Erfworld certainly haven't settled the question.


Dollamancy can create raiment. This includes the "Rain Ponchos" which are STRONG magical items, and the blaster pistols that were used by Jetstone. Now I am no expert in warfare, but a death ray strikes me as a very powerful thing to be able to successfully construct, and that is something which was constructed without the explicit direction of a lateral thinking intellect: like Charlie or Parson. Dollamancy is being used to emulate dolls in our world as a matter of real faculty: with action figures being the "little boy equivalent" thereof. So anything your GI- Joes were purported to have as a kid, then Parson can now have Ace construct (He might not be a master dollamancer so perhaps not).

But if Ace is not a master class dollamancer, then the limitations on accessories and raiment might not also be well understood. How might warfare change if Parson started leaving land mines or fields of self-contained fire (with a condition set to burst if enemies attempt to pass within range)? How might warfare change if all dragons were upgraded to include the dropping of bombs (obviously more limited than yellows since they don't produce them, but still having them might be huge) or even missiles (he can create a jetpack)? Dragonfire Missiles would change Erfworld conflict forever, and would almost certainly be thought horrific by the people.


So Turnmancy is largely responsible for the creation of vehicles... But if you want a Tank, then you are going to need a Dollamancer to create the weapons/ammo it uses. And if you wanted to give it Specials, then you need Weirdomancy.

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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby Lilwik » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:09 am

mantimeforgot wrote:In general it seems to me that the Erf axis is concerned with the question of "Where;" the Fate axis concerned with the questions of "Why" or "If;" and the Numbers axis concerned with the question of "How."
I'm curious to hear that elaborated. It's not instantly obvious.

For where the most obvious one is clearly Findamancy; that needs no explanation. Lookamancy might work for the same reason, but it's not as nice a fit. As for the other Erf disciplines, I can't think of what they have to with where.

For why or if we have Predictamancy, but that seems to be more about making declarations rather than explanations, and I can't see any why or if in any of the other Fate disciplines either. Mathamancy is almost an if, except that it's really about odds rather than telling you if something will happen, and it's aligned with the wrong axis. Perhaps Mathamancy is how in the sense of how likely, but that's not a usual sense of how at all. I can't even see any how at all in the other Numbers-axis disciplines. Where is the how in Foolamancy, for example?
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby mantimeforgot » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:06 am

As I explain my thoughts on this I think it bares mentioning that Erfworld seems to treat Life and Sentience as interchangeable qualities. Sometimes when something is described as living it means organic, and other times it means a quality like sentience that can only be found in living things. I do believe that more specifically the methods used to determine placement is more to do with thematics; like if something is a quality associated with real world dolls/action figures, then it will be a part of dollamancy regardless, but generally speaking there seems to be a theme to how much power/capability is given to each discipline.

"The "Where's""

Findamancy- Obvious as you said.
Turnamancy- determines where things move or where it is allowed to move
Dirtamancy- determines where stuff is; like literally. It is all about change in location.
Lookamancy- Sense some where.
Flower Power- this one is a bit more loose than I might like (I am speaking in generalizations), but it seems to be concerned with where relationships are and where living things are.
Shockamancy- where does matter have motion; everything I have seen so far from Shockamancy seems to revolve around deny movement to things. I suppose its barely possible that Shockamancy could be used like a real world defibrilator and "shock someone" who has recently croaked back to life (naughtymancy is about breaking the rules).
Hat Magic- Much of Hat Magic seems to involve passing of information or stuff through hats (again "where")
Luckamancy- where bonuses are.


"The "Why/If's""

Predictamancy- Wants to know if something will happen, and is concerned with the "why's" about fate (why do I need to go there; because you will die if you don't)
Dollamancy- If something has motion (generally dollamancy seems to be about animating stuff)
Thinkamancy- Wants to know why people think what they think or do what they do, and is I think capable of imparting sentience (if something thinks) as evidenced by the Scarecrow and Tinman that shared in the Thinkamancer's sentience whilst he was alive.
Signamancy- Not much known about what a Signamancer does, so I can only speculate beyond the "natural Signamancy" of understanding if something has attributes associated with it.
Croakamancy- If someone has motion (croakamancers work on things that are alive or were once alive in the same vein as a dollamancer). I suspect if you put Wanda to task she could graft organic features onto people (as gruesome as that may be) since she can manipulate any body part on a person as she pleases.
Carnymancy- Again this one is hard to pin down since we don't really see what it does, but what it does involve is essentially a "Fate exchange." What does this mean precisely? Why/If a given fate applies is what Carnymancy meddles with...
Healomancy- I admit that this one does not fit in too well, but to be fair where else would you put it? Healomancy essentially imparts life (if something has life) in ways that the other members of Fate (which all can involve imparting something) do not...


"The "How's""

Mathamancy- How do units actually do what they do (mathamancy can be used to break down what actors are actually doing into distinct parts or units) and present how likely something.
Weirdomancy- determines how something moves; this can alter your special attributes (how you move and how you can act in the form of other special abilities).
Dittomancy- Numbers + Matter = How many...
Foolamancy- Eyemancy has to do with the Senses; Foolamancy is concerned with how people sense things. How do you see it? How do I see it? How do they differ?
Date-a-mancy- How do things/persons relate to each other? What sort of qualities does their relationship have and what strength does it have? The only major piece of Date-a-mancy we have seen (Napster) tends to indicate this is the case.
Retconjuration- I don't consider this applicable since it really doesn't exist.
Rhyme-o-mancy- I will admit that this one doesn't fit very well at all. In all honesty I'm not even sure how Rhyme-o-mancy involves numbers in the first place...
Moneymancy- This one is actually rather straightfoward; How do numbers apply everywhere. Moneymancy is able to distill all numerical debts into monetary form and is capable of analyzing numerical interactions in terms of monetary costs (damage to buildings? that will cost X amount of schmuckers to fix)


Again, I am perfectly willing to admit that it is not a rock-solid interpretation, but if we are going to speculate I think we should take into account both the thematic nature (which I admit should be given precedence) and the lesser metaphysical nature (roughly what I present here) when considering what might be the case with the given disciplines.

MTF
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