Shai_hulud wrote:Define exploits.
No one in particular wrote:I would say it depends on how much time one would want to devote to actually pursuing the goal, and how strict the definitions for "WIN" are.
I mean, I can think of a way that could work, without 'Tools and in spite of diminishing returns.
Step 1: Make allies
Step 2: Conquer cities
Step 3: Spin off new sides to avoid diminishing returns
Step 4: Conquer more cities
Step 5: Repeat until all cities in Erfworld belong to you, your allies, or your splinters
Step 6: Have allies / splinters turn their cities back over to you.
Step 6 is where things get tricky. Friends may have decided they liked having a side of their own. We don't know what it takes for the crown to be passed (do you have to be in the same hex? the same room?). Etc.
Additionally, there's the issue of how long does one need to maintain control over everything? Does this hypothetical Winner need to maintain all these cities for 5 Turns? Or will Erfworld go *DING!* and roll credits the moment the last city is claimed? Heck, does it have to be one side? Maybe having an Alliance that controls every city would be good enough for Winning.
Personally, I'm still partial to Erfworld actually being like Civ or something, where the win conditions are about building up your society and not ruining/controlling everyone else. Parson + Ace = Scientific Win!
Omnicrat wrote:I'm not certain of her specific parameters, but it has to be something where one side gets all the cities. And I doubt that alliance trick would work. Its similar to an infinite caster trick one could do (assuming pop rate is relative to casters had) except where you want the final step to be "my ally gives my half of the casters back" it is instead "my ally breaks alliance and crushes me with their caster might." If you try to claim your allies as your own, and push the issue, they will balk at best, break alliance at worst. And the odds of none of those sides having ambitions of their own and siding up with the coalition to take down your super-alliance before then to ensure they get to keep on keeping on is low.
Omnicrat wrote:Shai_hulud wrote:Define exploits.
Stuff like Charlie covering the cost of his vast and powerful empire by having other sides pay his upkeep. Things that were clearly not intended by the Titan's when they made the rules.
drachefly wrote:As far as I could tell, that's what Jetstone and GK actually did.
Also, there may be materials requirements. That could be the bottleneck rather than juice.
I strongly suspect that golems aren't nearly as overpowered as decrypted even if the golems have zero upkeep. Naturally golems have costs to making them both in raw materials and juice, so a side can only build up its army of golems slowly, but it could be worse than that. Perhaps golems don't get repaired for free at the start of their turn like living units, and instead require some other unit to make the repairs. They might at least require shmuckers to be spent when they get start-of-turn repairs. That way golems would be free as long as they aren't used, but as soon as golems see combat they become expensive enough as to not be overpowered.ftl wrote:I've been thinking about that, and wondering - if Golems really are an option for this, why isn't there already a golem-based side taking everything over?
What did Charlie want? Money. More money, more reach, more security, more information. Archons were expensive units, costing a minimum of two hundred Shmuckers per turn for the weakest. The strongest were closer to five hundred. Everything Charlie did seemed to be in support of growing a larger and larger fleet of Archons. Not one of them could remember him stating any kind of ideology or purpose beyond that. (Charlie's Rule #15: Some things are more important than money. COROLLARY: Most things are not more important than money.)
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