Barbarian mechanics and book 0 ep. 52-64

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Re: Barbarian mechanics and book 0 ep. 52-64

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:26 pm

That does seem like it would be source of the idea that barbarians go first, and while it could be fairly convincing evidence, I think it needs something to back it up. Actually, looking at that exchange, I'm almost positive that Wanda is talking about Jillian in particular, as there weren't any barbarians in the fight besides her (that we know of), and I doubt she'd think of the minimal chance of a barbarian popping and attacking them. But thinking of Jillian? Always for Wanda. On similar lines, Parson gives a 'right' response, as opposed to something a bit more vague like 'I suppose' as he likely would if she were talking about that long shot. He too is likely thinking of the particular barbarian that so recently messed up his big plan.

Do we happen to know anything about Jillian the Barbarian's turn order in relation to other sides, as compared to Jillian the Queen of FAQ's? If we can determine that she didn't fall behind anyone suddenly (not counting alliances of course), then it would be fairly compelling evidence that she kept her turn order. Of course, finding a case where she went after someone as a barbarian would also dismiss the idea that barbarians automatically go first, and instead likely go when their side would normally go.

And as to being a 'barbarian' vs a 'side' being mechanical, it could be something as simple as signamancy. Barbarians, lacking a city to provide upkeep, are likely to look leaner, tougher, etc. While people with a side are more likely to look plump or regal or whatever. That's not much of a difference, and it would take time to show. I still stand on the idea that 'barbarian' is simply a term that means nothing more or less than 'side without a city'.

Oh, and there was also the interesting fact that there is mention of 'Capital Side', which is presumably a side with a capital city. If this is different from a side with a city but no capital, and if that in turn is different from a barbarian is unknown, but it sounds like it is just semantics to me.
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Re: Barbarian mechanics and book 0 ep. 52-64

Postby wih » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:15 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:Barbarians always have first turn? Can you site that? It sounds right but I can't pull that from anywhere. And I don't know that we've seen anything that suggests Jillian (as a barbarian) goes any sooner in the day than FAQ would have otherwise, since we don't have any sides to compare that to.

The only thing is that we know Haffaton went before FAQ in the turn order. Does that change after FAQ loses all its cities before capturing Haffaton's capital?


There are tons of references to this scattered around the comic, which I really can't be bothered scouring for right now. One off the top of my head is that Wanda certainly thinks that any and all Barbarians should always go before GK in 1-144.
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Re: Barbarian mechanics and book 0 ep. 52-64

Postby Lilwik » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:00 pm

wih wrote:There are tons of references to this scattered around the comic, which I really can't be bothered scouring for right now.
I recommend that you don't bother looking for it later either, because I've already tried and I'm almost certain that it doesn't actually exist.
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Re: Barbarian mechanics and book 0 ep. 52-64

Postby Godzfirefly » Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:09 pm

Lilwik wrote:I recommend that you don't bother looking for it later either, because I've already tried and I'm almost certain that it doesn't actually exist.


Don't discourage him. Rereading Erfworld is always worthwhile, and he might see something new and useful even though he's looking for something that isn't there. :D
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Re: Barbarian mechanics and book 0 ep. 52-64

Postby wih » Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:22 pm

Godzfirefly wrote:
Lilwik wrote:I recommend that you don't bother looking for it later either, because I've already tried and I'm almost certain that it doesn't actually exist.


Don't discourage him. Rereading Erfworld is always worthwhile, and he might see something new and useful even though he's looking for something that isn't there. :D


I end up rereading it far, far more often than I probably should.
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Re: Barbarian mechanics and book 0 ep. 52-64

Postby drachefly » Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:03 pm

I thought it was mentioned at the time that they did the two-phase plan, but upon rereading... nope, not there. Hmm. Where did that idea come from?
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Re: Barbarian mechanics and book 0 ep. 52-64

Postby Zippy the Squirrel » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:25 am

Perhaps you've accidentally linked it to a mechanic from another game? I know Civ 5 multiplayer has very similar turn/time mechanics to Erfworld, and Barbarians always take their turn before humans in that regard.

Back to an earlier point, what happens when a Side ends but has a prisoner in one of its Cities? Are the now-neutral units there frozen, or do they get to appreciate time because a Sided unit is in their city? Or is the prisoner frozen too, until a free unit enters the city? Or, creepily, can the prisoner move about and easily attempt escape because the neutrals are stuck in time?
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Re: Barbarian mechanics and book 0 ep. 52-64

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:38 am

Zippy the Squirrel wrote:Back to an earlier point, what happens when a Side ends but has a prisoner in one of its Cities? Are the now-neutral units there frozen, or do they get to appreciate time because a Sided unit is in their city? Or is the prisoner frozen too, until a free unit enters the city? Or, creepily, can the prisoner move about and easily attempt escape because the neutrals are stuck in time?

Well, Parson did say that they were frozen until 'an enemy entered the city' or something like that, so I guess it depends on if a prisoner is still considered an enemy or not. I would think not, or unled stacks would be forced to attack them constantly. So that means that they somehow aren't an enemy, which would likely mean they'd be frozen along with the rest of the city until someone can come and do a curb stomp battle to free them. After all, prisoners act on their captors turn, and neutral cities don't get any turns, so they shouldn't be able to act either.
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Re: Barbarian mechanics and book 0 ep. 52-64

Postby drachefly » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:33 pm

Zippy the Squirrel wrote:Perhaps you've accidentally linked it to a mechanic from another game?


Not in my case.

It could have been Wanda's comment about no barbarians. Hmm. That actually raises an interesting point - they normally had their turn before most of the RCC, so going first only meant that Transylvito and Jillian weren't present. Their deduction that the RCC had been wiped out didn't even make sense.
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