So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Lilwik » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:37 am

LordAcme wrote:God would I love to read all the Books as books someday.
I agree. Even though I very much want Book 3 to be in comic form, I would love to have a novelization of the entire Erfworld story. Maybe if the kickstarter does enormously well that could be added as an extra stretch goal: Book 3 in both comic and text form, instead of just one or the other.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby drachefly » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:06 am

Hmm. Now that I'm going to have a job that actually pays real money instead of a stipend, I can actually do this. I think I'll wait for a paycheck to arrive though...
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby zaratustra » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:30 pm

Kickstarter should have some "What is Erfworld?" description, or at least a link at the start. It would help for people stumbling onto the Kickstarter before the comic.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby bladestorm » Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:42 pm

zaratustra wrote:Kickstarter should have some "What is Erfworld?" description, or at least a link at the start. It would help for people stumbling onto the Kickstarter before the comic.

Isn't that what Google or Bing is for? Stating that it is book 3, it's not difficult to find Books 1 and 2. Go to the start of the archive of Book 1, and start reading. Then curse out Rob for it getting to be 4am and you have to be at work in the morning. Then read just one more page...... no really, just one more, then you'll go to bed.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Lilwik » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:55 pm

I do wish the kickstarter had an amazing video or something like that to show everyone just how great and excellent Book 3 will be. Where is the teaser? Can we at least have an excerpt like you often see at the beginning of a novel to give people a taste of what is to come? Some people might need to know why the project is important in more detail than just "It's more Erfworld." I don't need that, but I worry about what the average person browsing kickstarter may need.

I also worry that the bit where it says Rob hasn't even started writing Book 3 might be misleading people. I'm sure he actually has started writing it in the sense that he has a detailed outline for everything that will happen, and it is surely an amazing story as always. I hope no one is getting the impression that Rob has no idea what will happen in Book 3. A few carefully selected details that tantalize without spoiling might be helpful.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby CelebrenIthil » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:28 pm

Ouch. Between exchange rates and shipping, the $50 USD softcover package become $97 CAN... :cry:

How did I ever manage to get the book 1 softcovers? Wow... I really can't remember how much I paid. (I think I had Tool store credit to put on my order?) Damn, I just can't afford paying a hundred bucks right now. :(

Wish there was something like a "I Totally Ship This These 3" package, with just the softcover books and no goodies, so as to shave off any non book-related costs for people outside of the US of A... *sigh*
Oh well. I guess one day they might be available on the Erf shop, but that means not contributing during the actual fundraising time. :(
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Lilwik » Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:27 pm

CelebrenIthil wrote:I guess one day they might be available on the Erf shop, but that means not contributing during the actual fundraising time. :(
Please consider going for one of the cheaper pledges. I like the Arkendish pack because it requires no shipping and is full of goodies, but even tiny pledges make a difference. If we want Erfworld to continue to be a webcomic then we're all going to need to pull together to make this the most successful kickstarter in Erfworld history. I just wish there was something I could do to spread awareness of Erfworld and help this great story find its full audience.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Durmatagno » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:28 pm

If you have any programming skill at all (though most of its stuff is easy to mod if you don't, text document for a lot of stuff and it has a template you can easily just copy and modify) you can make a mod for DF, the guy making it is supported entirely or almost entirely by donations, the community might check out the comic and get hooked with a mod to interest them.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Sixty » Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:54 pm

Donated!

Though I do sorta wish that as much stuff as possible was cut in order to make Book 3 in comic form the first priority. Like getting figures is awesome, but I sorta wish they were a stretch goal. It would be a shame if we ended up a Book 3 tier lower cause a big chunk went to stuff that was slightly less critical.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:18 pm

GOALLLLLL!

At least, the initial one. Now for the real one ;)
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Lamech » Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:53 pm

BOOM! 100% funded. Now we just need another 100%

Ninja'd: I posted it, changed the tab and came back much later to find someone posted in front of me.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby bladestorm » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:14 am

Sixty wrote:Donated!

Though I do sorta wish that as much stuff as possible was cut in order to make Book 3 in comic form the first priority. Like getting figures is awesome, but I sorta wish they were a stretch goal. It would be a shame if we ended up a Book 3 tier lower cause a big chunk went to stuff that was slightly less critical.

We are at 50% of that goal, and it hasn't even made it past the first weekend. Plenty of time to make this happen.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Althernai » Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:20 pm

bladestorm wrote:
Sixty wrote:Donated!

Though I do sorta wish that as much stuff as possible was cut in order to make Book 3 in comic form the first priority. Like getting figures is awesome, but I sorta wish they were a stretch goal. It would be a shame if we ended up a Book 3 tier lower cause a big chunk went to stuff that was slightly less critical.

We are at 50% of that goal, and it hasn't even made it past the first weekend. Plenty of time to make this happen.

Time is not the enemy here, the number of backers is what matters. If you look at previous Erfworld kickstarters (one, two, three), there have never been more than 1200 backers (there were 1148, 1064 and 268 respectively) and the average contribution per backer has never been more than $75 (it was $74, $43 and $48 respectively). Right now, the number of backers is 600 and the average contribution is $86. There will certainly be more backers and they will almost certainly give less money (on average) than the earlier ones. I think it will get to $67K, but $97K is another story -- that would require doing better than ever before, including that wild first one which promised more than could be delivered.

The figurines and other physical goods are necessary though -- exclusive material is why a lot of people give large contributions.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:54 pm

Well, on the bright side this did get a spot on the front page of the 'popular' listing recently, so it is likely that people outside the community here will notice it and give it a look. If it could get a full on spotlight, that'd likely help a ton too.

My main concern would be that people see it, check it out a bit, and decide to go to the site, and just see a big wall of text. While I'm enjoying the text updates, and I think they're very good and I wouldn't mind more of them, I think if people who don't know about Erfworld see that as soon as they jump on, they might get discouraged and not see the awesome art that has been part of the comic, not want to get involved enough in the comic to get to the point where they want to read all that text.

Rob might want to consider putting (especially while the kickstarter is up) a banner or something on the front page that has something like "New to the site? Start reading here!" or something along those lines so people can get into it a bit more easily. The archives are a bit troublesome to navigate at the moment, and there isn't a 'first' button or anything like that to go right to the beginning. And some people will be confused about if they should start with book 1 or 0, etc.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Lilwik » Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:34 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:The archives are a bit troublesome to navigate at the moment, and there isn't a 'first' button or anything like that to go right to the beginning.
That is very true; Erfworld is being sabotaged by its own website!

On top of that, there really ought to be a lower stretch goal for black&white comic pages. Why should text and color comic pages be the only options? And where are the Book 3 reward packages? It would take a long time to deliver, but people would still want it. If Book 3 turned out black&white, then there's a possibility of colorizing it later, maybe even making the color version an exclusive for people who get the published book.

I love the Dwarf Fortress idea. It looks like it shouldn't be hard to make a Marbit Fortress mod that substitutes Erfworld natural allies for the races of Dwarf Fortress, but it seems like we hardly know enough about the natural allies to make the mod more than a renaming, and even the few things we do know would probably be troublesome. We would probably have to remove all major arteries to prevent bleeding, since Dwarf Fortress surely has no concept of creatures that have blood but can't bleed. It's probably not even possible to have creatures pop instead of being born. If someone does this it should probably be a Dwarf Fortress player, but that's not me, and I certainly don't have enough time to learn during this kickstarter.

I think we're going to need more promises to save Erfworld. Something big has to happen, because we're pretty clearly not on course to the $97k stretch goal. We need to find more backers somewhere.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Durmatagno » Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:48 pm

I'm a big DF fan, but the only thing I've ever made is a silver desert tree. As for popping, the closest thing would be to make the marbits/gobwins/whatever already count as adults upon being born. Removing blood shouldn't be a problem, plenty of creatures don't bleed as it is, and marbits/gobwins are probably close enough to the affinity dwarves have to stone and metal that they shouldn't take to much modding to make closer to what we do know.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Durmatagno » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:46 pm

Nother way would be if someone used imgur or something else and got it on the front page.

My current attempt

http://imgur.com/gallery/83zHrEf

Probably not the best, but I want to see this comic continue, so try I must.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby bladestorm » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:37 pm

Althernai wrote:Time is not the enemy here, the number of backers is what matters. If you look at previous Erfworld kickstarters (one, two, three), there have never been more than 1200 backers (there were 1148, 1064 and 268 respectively) and the average contribution per backer has never been more than $75 (it was $74, $43 and $48 respectively). Right now, the number of backers is 600 and the average contribution is $86. There will certainly be more backers and they will almost certainly give less money (on average) than the earlier ones. I think it will get to $67K, but $97K is another story -- that would require doing better than ever before, including that wild first one which promised more than could be delivered.

The figurines and other physical goods are necessary though -- exclusive material is why a lot of people give large contributions.

While data mining is commendable, it needs to be more relevant information. Contributions are weighted, so using 'average contribution' negates the higher end contributions. From the previous kickstarter, we've had both of the top tier contributions fulfilled (Lord Crush was presumably Canonized and DigDoug was presumably the 21 Canon Salute). Using the assumption that previous performance will dictate future performance, we are still missing a Canonized contribution ($2500). Also, once we reach the $67k mark, new limited pledge levels will be unlocked. With those, some of the previous donors may throw in an additional $30 or more, which in turn raises the 'average contribution'. We need better mathemancy on this. Do you have the progression of the previous Kickstarters so that we can compare our current progress to the overall progress of the previous kickstarters. The numbers may be different, but the spending pattern and progress rate should be similar. Of particular interest are late cycle spikes, if there is ever a point when there is no further progression (no more money raised in the last five days), and the effects of reaching a particular push goal. What percentage of the overall amount pledged came in the first five days, or even the first day?

And there are just some things mathemancy cannot take into account. For instance, what is the effect of Spring Break and the change of the weather having on contributions? How many readers so desperately want Book 3 to be in comic format that they are willing to donate again just to make it happen? How many readers actually like the two panel illustrations and voice-over better than the full comic, so intentionally donated less than they normally would? Would a preview of the pencils for Page 1 in comic format vs page 1 in illustrated text format make a difference (aside from basically determining if I won any quatloo or if drachefly won more with a cheesy vague answer)?

There's also my contribution which hasn't gone in yet. I am waiting on tax returns and early birthday gifts.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Althernai » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:33 pm

There is always a late spike (not just with Erfworld, but with every Kickstarter that has a large number of backers), but it's usually not that large. You can see the full progression for the Erfabet here. Unfortunately, it's not available for the Year of the Dwagon. The typical progression is that about half of the total is raised in the first two or three days, then there is a rapid decline which levels off somewhere quite close to zero and then jumps again close to the final date.

And indeed, I'm not saying that we can project anything definitive from the previous Kickstarters. The biggest difference is that this one is not about fluffy things like pins and plushies, it's about the core comic. People might be willing to give more -- we'll see.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Godzfirefly » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:45 pm

Althernai wrote:The biggest difference is that this one is not about fluffy things like pins and plushies, it's about the core comic. People might be willing to give more -- we'll see.


I dunno...I was just thinking the other day that none of the reward levels had anything that interested me, since I don't really want a physical book or an ebook for the comic or some little pin. But, if they'd had a more interesting bonus like the plushies that I could let my kids play with, even if the plushies weren't on their own worth a quarter of what I'd invested in Erfworld it would make me more willing to invest in this Kickstarter.
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