So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Durmatagno » Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:23 pm

At this point we'll need about 1373 more every day to meet the book three in proper comic form goal, considering that most kickstarters I've seen get a end boost, and that we've gotten about 1,000 everyday anyway, we should meet it guys.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Lilwik » Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:21 pm

I am blown away by the "Attuned to the Arkendish" pledge level. Its reward is more valuable than all other rewards put together because it includes Rob Balder answering an Erfworld question of your choice. Just as attuning to the arkendish revealed some terrible secret to Charlie, so will it reveal some terrible secret to a lucky few fans. Not the same secret, of course, because that would surely be a spoiler which is not allowed.

I wish I could pledge at that level because I have so many questions about Erfworld, especially about the magic system. I just want to know the meaning of the grid. I have theories about the Erf, Fate, and Numbers axes that I wish could be confirmed and completed. I'd also love to know why there is exactly one class for each combination of elements, and what exactly each element is and how elements combine. Surely none of that would be a spoiler.

The only problem with this reward is that it is only one question, and I would also love to know about the geometry of Erfworld. Since hexes can't tile a globe, is Erfworld flat? Does it actually have a literal firmament dome covering it? Or is it a toroid? Also, there are surely good questions to ask about how time works in Erfworld, like does ending the last turn of the day cause the sun to jump forward in the sky and instantly set, or does some sort of natural Predictamancy cause the sun to just happen to arrive at the horizon at the same moment you choose to end your turn?

We really ought to compile a list of possible questions so that the people who get this reward will be able to figure out what question is most worth asking.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:04 pm

Hmm, I missed that one when I was looking through them. Did it just get added?

Ah well. As for the time thing, I think the sun actually jumps, and we see it fairly early in the comic. Back when Jillian is landing in Ansome's camp, it looks like it is early afternoon at first, then he calls for end of turn, and what seems like about 2 minutes later it is sunset.

But yeah, there are all kinds of questions that could be asked. Personally I want to know what weirdomancers do.

Oh, and why can't hexes tile a globe?
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Omnimancer » Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:17 pm

Although we haven't seen a weirdomancer we've been given some examples of what they can do. They can temporarily add/remove unit specials and alter their biology.

I think they're called weirdomancers because you can make units do very strange things (such as a twoll that can fly), as well as permanently mutate units into weird new lifeforms.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:14 pm

Well, we know they can add/remove specials according to Jack. The other part... well, that came from Count Topotato, who isn't exactly reliable as a source. Also, that could have just been a simple case of adding a special that grew fruit or something along those lines.

P.S. I'm sure they're called weirdomancers cause they're misunderstood ;)
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Omnimancer » Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:51 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:Well, we know they can add/remove specials according to Jack. The other part... well, that came from Count Topotato, who isn't exactly reliable as a source. Also, that could have just been a simple case of adding a special that grew fruit or something along those lines.

P.S. I'm sure they're called weirdomancers cause they're misunderstood ;)


I wonder if specials themselves govern a unit's form. For example, are specials just things like "Leadership" and "Archery" or could there be specials like "Giant" or "Prehensile Tail". And if you give a unit the flying special, does it sprout wings or just levitate? If you remove a red dragon's fire immunity, does its skin change color?

I also wonder if they can permanently alter a unit, in addition to temporary buffs/nerfs. It would be pretty neat to do things like give non-scouting units some natural thinkmancy so they can transmit pictures back to their ruler, or buff a heavy unit with wings so it can fly. Don't have a twoll? Just give a random infantryman the fabrication special and put him to work as a craftsman. The uses are endless, even if temporary.

Also, can they turn one unit into a completely different unit? For example, can they transform an enemy soldier into a harmless frog for the rest of the turn? Or turn an ally into a dwagon ?
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Lilwik » Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:25 pm

Omnimancer wrote:Also, can they turn one unit into a completely different unit? For example, can they transform an enemy soldier into a harmless frog for the rest of the turn? Or turn an ally into a dwagon ?
For what little it's worth, I think the fact that Weirdomancy is a purely Motion based magic strongly suggests that it can only manipulate what a unit can do and cannot manipulate the physical form of a unit, which I expect would require Matter-based magic. On the other hand, reasoning exactly like that would lead me to believe that Dirtamancy can't make golems if I didn't know better.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:46 pm

Well, we've seen several warlords that fly, and none of them have wings. I don't see much reason that a weirdomancer would or even could change the physical appearance like that. I think that'd be more the realm of changemancy.

Still, sometimes what a caster can do doesn't always quite line up with might seem to make sense based on the elements, as pointed out by Lilwik (dirtamancers who are all stuff, can make moving golems, and dollamancers who are all movement, seem to be all about making stuff)

Edit: I wonder if a weirdomancer could give someone the ruler special...
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Omnimancer » Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:31 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:Well, we've seen several warlords that fly, and none of them have wings. I don't see much reason that a weirdomancer would or even could change the physical appearance like that. I think that'd be more the realm of changemancy.

Still, sometimes what a caster can do doesn't always quite line up with might seem to make sense based on the elements, as pointed out by Lilwik (dirtamancers who are all stuff, can make moving golems, and dollamancers who are all movement, seem to be all about making stuff)

Edit: I wonder if a weirdomancer could give someone the ruler special...


I used to assume changeamancy included altering units, but they've only been referenced as artisans (creating detailed items) and alchemists (understanding the chemicals in coffee). That might also include altering creatures, but I'm not certain anymore. Now I think it's a toss-up whether that falls in their domain, in weirdomancy, or somewhere else entirely. Heck, maybe an mad scientist healomancer could create mutants if they wanted to. It's also possible that more than one magic type can mutate units, but in different ways.

I think it's best to not view life, motion, and matter too literally. Instead I think you can view them as "who is playing", "what can they do", "what is on the board with them". Dollamancers make accessories that alter what a unit can do, so that falls under motion even if they're making stuff. If you think about it, all the spookism schools of pure motion are about adjusting what units do. Turnamancy rules when they can act and who they act for. Dollamancy gives them tools to enhance their abilities. Weirdomancy alters their inherent abilities. Since motion is "what can a unit do" instead of pure kinetic energy of movement, that still allows someone like a dirtamancer to animate things.

And I wouldn't be surprised if a weirdomancer could give someone the ruler special. If a dittomancer can create a clone with the ruler special, maybe a weirdomancer can create temporary heirs. It might still require the ruler's permission though, to avoid a traitorous weirdomancer from hijacking a side that way.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby DolGrenn » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:41 pm

Hey guys, I don't know if this has come up either here or in the Kickstarter comments, but this is the only place I have to post (I'm broke as the rules after a Carnymancer and can't pledge atm) so I'm posting here in hopes that Rob sees it bla bla bla getting to the point now.

So, in the big video that the Kickstarter has, the Book 1 hardcover is shown off, which is all well and great, but NOW the advance copies of Book 2 have arrived (apparently) so why not make a NEW video with THAT book?

I imagine it wouldn't take too long to make, and it would surely increase the pledge rate.

Anyways, that's my idea. Again, dunno if it's been shot down or even brought up, but I just felt like I needed to throw that out there just in case. :D
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Lamech » Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:55 pm

Almost there! I kind of want to ask a question. Notably where do Orlies comes from? Hats? The wilds? Cities? All of the above?
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Durmatagno » Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:18 pm

WE DID IT!

1,192
backers

$98,505
pledged of $49,000 goal

9
days to go
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But some of you never learned to drop the act
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Shai_hulud » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:30 pm

Yay! :D
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:03 pm

See, so many people with so little faith ;)

Wonder if Rob has any more goals in mind.
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby WurmD » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:18 pm

WOW! That last day was almost TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS pledges :D

What the heck happened? :D Was that a single donor?

@Linda? @Rob?
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby jeffseadot » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:49 pm

WurmD wrote:WOW! That last day was almost TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS pledges :D

What the heck happened? :D Was that a single donor?

@Linda? @Rob?


I second this question! Second biggest spike of the project, when it looked like things were tapering off. Who are you, mystery donor(s)?
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:33 pm

Well, there were alot of people waiting till the project hit (or was very close to) the 'main' stretch goal to pledge, so likely a combination of alot of people upping their pledges in response to that, and maybe a few high dollar new backers. Looks like we don't have any more 21 cannon salutes or canonized people, so not one huge backer. Though I'm not sure how many there were at the 1200 level, so maybe some more there?
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Silversought » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:55 pm

"VERY ATTUNED, SO HARD, WOW!" name is hilarious. $2200 left! o:
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby CelebrenIthil » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:08 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:Oh, and why can't hexes tile a globe?

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7492 ... -map-tiles
There are some great explanations in there, with one using the actual mathematical explanation according to Euler.

But basically, a sphere simply cannot be broken into identical pieces of only one type of geometric shape (you can break it in one type of shape, you can use triangles but they won't all be identical; if you want identical, you can use slices but they kind of don't work in 2D space... but I digress!)

Back to hexagons. Remember how soccer balls look? They use hexagons... and pentagons in between: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unifo ... 53-t12.png http://www.psdgraphics.com/file/football-ball.jpg
Laying hexagons on a flat grid is all nice and well, but when you start adding the tilt in the 3rd axis to make a 3D sphere, you simply end up not being to fit everything in. Of course, the smaller the tiles are compared to the sphere, the more hexagons you can fit but eventually you'll come to a point where you'll need a pentagon.
Look here (scroll down to page 132 and 133): http://webpages.sou.edu/~sahrk/dgg/pubs/gdggs03.pdf
See the spheres labelled (c) and (d)? Lots of hexagons in there, right? Yet, you can actually notice the pentagons at the equator level. They're easier to spot using the red lines, but once you found them you'll notice the smaller ones in the green and the black grids.

Hope it helped!

Anyway, all that talk to make me think.... maybe Erfworld is a sphere (well as close to a sphere as our planet is) with a hexagonal grid system that does have a few pentagon hexes! Only, the common Erf mortals might have never seen any... Maybe they are all located in wastelands and seas and mystical hidden valleys or whatnot! Maybe only a few people saw them, but they live far away from all the action we've seen! Maybe some Mathamancers have theorized the pentagonal "hexes" existence, but never actually saw one to prove it - maybe expressing the belief there are pentagons in the grid is deemed an heresy by the rest of the Erf folk! Maybe it's a well-kept secret, just like the G-Strings!

My oh my, the possiblities! :mrgreen:
I'm not hardcore enough to pay for a question to Robb and ask though... probably because I figure, as a fantasy author, a line of work that doesn't usually require advanced geometry knowledge, I don't figure this is an aspect he actually planned. He might make something up on the spot, but eh, it kinda ruins the magic when you look at it this way...
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Re: So, uhm. Book 3 Kickstarter?

Postby Silversought » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:29 pm

Thanks for the explanation, that's a pretty cool topic.

I wonder how informative these answers will be. With 22 questions pledged for already, we could be looking at an ErfWiki explosion! XD


Wow Stretch Goal reached!
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