Caster Combos!

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Caster Combos!

Postby Lamech » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:46 pm

So we have the linkamancer thread for caster combo's but what about without the link. We've seen what A dollamancer+hatomancer can do. Dirtamancy can improve the tower (and in turn casting). Carnymancy can let casters make items that break rules.

It occurred to me that Traps were NOT blocked by Olive's song and dance. If you have a lightning trap and a Olive-grade Hippiemancer or two you could essentially make an uncrackable city. Have units screen the lightning trap from attack, while the lightning trap slices through the enemy. Add a dirtamancer for repairing damage. So any other ideas for deadly caster combo's?
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:18 pm

I feel like most casters would be able to make serious use of Olive's 'no combat'.

Turnamancers might be able to turn units while they're prevented from fighting back.

Weirdomancer might be able to lift units into the air and drop them (by giving them flight then taking it away or something along those lines)

Heck, since 'groping' and the like is allowed, you might be able to get any old flying unit to pick up enemies and drop them from a height.

Dirtamancers could build airtight structures around people.

Any particularly large units might be able to capture through the use of their sheer weight by falling on or just hugging enemies.

Foolamancers might be able to trick enemies into hurting themselves by walking off walls and the like.

Thinkamancers might be able to create turncoats (it was mentioned that thinkamancy can mess with loyalty)

Carnymancers... well, they might be able to adjust the peace aura so that it only works on the enemy side, not their own.

Luckamancers... I'm not entirely sure how it would work out, but with the way the 'numbers have to come from somewhere' thing works, I'd imagine they could jinx their own troops, bless the enemy, then have them engage in harmless combat to 'use up' all the enemy's good numbers and all of your own side's bad ones.

Actually, we never saw how archery worked in the peace aura. It might be possible to drop stuff on enemies still, and crush or at least pin them.

Of course, some of that stuff could be turned against you if the enemy can utilize it, but it is still an absurdly powerful ability.

Lets see, other combos...

Dirtamancer and Shockamancer - instant tower/fortifications for the shockamancer to blast people from.
Predictamancer and Shockamancer - See Delphie defending goodminton
Dittomancy and Foolamancy - create a mix of real armies, phantom armies, and clone armies. Enemy won't know where to defend, or if their defense killed any actual units.
Carnymancy and Croakamancy - Bend/Break the rules on what the Croakamancer can uncroak, or how long they last.
Flower Power and Turnamancy - Peace/flake units, then turn them.
Turnamancy and Dittomancy - Massive speed boosts on production, or perhaps convert whole armies at a time.

That's all that comes to mind right now.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Omnimancer » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:59 am

I bet a flower powered archer could fire an arrow, it would speed through the air, then harmlessly bounce off an enemy's skin.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Godzfirefly » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:00 am

Omnimancer wrote:I bet a flower powered archer could fire an arrow, it would speed through the air, then harmlessly bounce off an enemy's skin.

I'd bet they archer would be unable to release the bowstring, or wouldn't be able to do so in any effective way.

I also don't why a Weirdomancer giving an enemy flying would force them to fly...

And, would building airtight structures hurt the captive apart from making them a prisoner? Do we have any evidence that Erfworlders need to breath to keep from croaking?

The Foolamancer and Thinkamancer ones probably don't need the flower power to do that, and the Foolamancer may be more effective in combat than in forced non-combat.

The Carnymancer was a good one, and we saw how effective Olive turning the tree into a Tannenbaum in order to hold Jillian worked.

For my own thoughts...

It occurs to me that a Mathamancer and a Luckamancer working in unlinked concert could be truly effective in applying the Luckamancer's abilities...perhaps more so than Predictamancers in concert with Luckamancers.

Signamancers might make golems or uncroaked appear more like normal units or even normal units appear more like other types of normal units in a less convincing but more permanent method than a Foolamancer might.

Carnymancers might make a Thinkamancer able to eavesdrop on Thinkagrams they didn't start or allow a Hat Magician to intercept a hat message.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Lilwik » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:37 am

Godzfirefly wrote:I also don't why a Weirdomancer giving an enemy flying would force them to fly...
We know so little about Weirdomancy, but judging from Turnamancy and Dollamancy, I imagine that Weirdomancy is fundamentally some sort of motion magic, probably changing how units move. If so, then it wouldn't surprise me if Weirdomancy can both allow units to fly at will as well as causing units do things like fall upward, walk on water, or pass through a hex without taking a move penalty from the terrain.

Godzfirefly wrote:Do we have any evidence that Erfworlders need to breath to keep from croaking?
In B0E69 it certainly seems like Olive might have died from being denied breath.

Godzfirefly wrote:It occurs to me that a Mathamancer and a Luckamancer working in unlinked concert could be truly effective in applying the Luckamancer's abilities...perhaps more so than Predictamancers in concert with Luckamancers.
That sounds like a tricky judgment call. The Mathamancer can tell you which battles will require luck to win, while the Predictamancer can sometimes tell you which battles are the most important. If you have the Mathamancer you will surely win more battles, but the Predictamancer might be the only way you'll win the war.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Whispri » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:09 am

A Croakamancer and a Florist working together could set up a great tower defence game.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Godzfirefly » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:48 pm

Lilwik wrote:
Godzfirefly wrote:Do we have any evidence that Erfworlders need to breath to keep from croaking?
In B0E69 it certainly seems like Olive might have croaked from being denied breath.


I don't know how definitive that is. Discomfort is not the same as croaking, and there have certainly been instances where units have been kept in boxes or gwiffon gummies for longer than any Stupidworlder would be able to hold their breath...
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Alpha the White » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:50 pm

Well, preparing for dance fighting seems to demand a change of clothing, and I assume rocking out is essentially a more extreme form of dance fighting, so...

Signamancer + Rhyme-a-mancer = Turn any units into rockers.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:29 pm

Godzfirefly wrote:
Lilwik wrote:
Godzfirefly wrote:Do we have any evidence that Erfworlders need to breath to keep from croaking?
In B0E69 it certainly seems like Olive might have croaked from being denied breath.


I don't know how definitive that is. Discomfort is not the same as croaking, and there have certainly been instances where units have been kept in boxes or gwiffon gummies for longer than any Stupidworlder would be able to hold their breath...

Stanley, of all people, made sure to specify that his Perfect Warlord was able to breath air, which indicates that air both exists and is important for Erfworlders. This would in turn indicate that a lack of air is bad for them.

The closest we've come to seeing evidence to the contrary is Wanda's Turnamancy crystal box, and that was designed with the purpose of holding a prisoner in it, so it isn't a stretch to believe that some form of air hole, magic or otherwise, is included.

In fact, with the people captured by gwiffons and the like, they've always had their heads poking out so they could breath, so that would once again indicate that breathing is important, and suffocation possible.

Edit: And I like the rocker thing. I figure a dollamancer with most any other caster would be a powerful combination as they could create items based around the other caster's discipline.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Powerhouse411 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:43 pm

Hmm. How about this. Flower Power + Healomancy + Toughest Son of a Guns you Have.

I imagine this as tanking in Erfworld. Start losing the battle? Flower Power your enemy into pacifism, heal up with the healomancer, and then get back to it as soon as you can. Wash, Rinse, Repeat. Not only that, but you can poison your weapons with Flower Power too. Meaning while you're healing, the enemy is still dying. A stack of capable troops lead by a Chief Warlord with this strategy AND Dance Fighting could probably wreck a battlefield like a Dynasty Warriors character....
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Godzfirefly » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:59 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:I feel like most casters would be able to make serious use of Olive's 'no combat'.


You know, after thinking about this a lot, I think Olive's Chill Axe (the item she used to prevent combat in a hex for an entire Turn/Day) was the product of a link. After all, when Janis used her Time Out spell, it could only stop combat for a short time, and she's a Master Hippiemancer. Admittedly, Olive was probably a higher level than her, at least as a Florist, but Jillian destroying the Chill Axe meant Olive couldn't do the spell either.

That said, Janis's short-term Time Out is still incredibly useful, as we've seen. But, I think that if we're trying to look at link-less combos, we need to consider that the average Florist can't do much of what Olive did.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:30 pm

Godzfirefly wrote:
Taikei no Yuurei wrote:I feel like most casters would be able to make serious use of Olive's 'no combat'.


You know, after thinking about this a lot, I think Olive's Chill Axe (the item she used to prevent combat in a hex for an entire Turn/Day) was the product of a link. After all, when Janis used her Time Out spell, it could only stop combat for a short time, and she's a Master Hippiemancer. Admittedly, Olive was probably a higher level than her, at least as a Florist, but Jillian destroying the Chill Axe meant Olive couldn't do the spell either.

That said, Janis's short-term Time Out is still incredibly useful, as we've seen. But, I think that if we're trying to look at link-less combos, we need to consider that the average Florist can't do much of what Olive did.

We really don't know anything about the Chill Axe. We don't even know if it was a magic item or an artifact, and if it was magic, how difficult it would be to create one. We do know that Janis could make a single unit unable to engage for the entire turn, and a group unable to engage for a short period of time. It's hard to say how much power either one took. She seemed to indicate that she couldn't do the time out a second time, so it supposedly took over half her juice (or the full turn peace on Joe took alot out of her too). Still, if you could make... oh, lets say 1 stack unable to fight for 2-3 combat rounds 2-3 times per day? That's potentially battle turning if you pick the right stacks. Warlord stacks would be good targets in particular, since that means they can't make use of their large combat bonus until you've taken out all the smaller groups that could support (and reinforce) them. And using it to keep casters safe is a good safety net as well.

I do agree though, it might well have been a hippy-rhyme link to create the axe.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Godzfirefly » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:03 pm

Taikei, you have once again made a post in which everything you said more or less agrees with (or even repeats) what I said, but I am still left feeling like we're arguing about something and I just lost...

How do you do that? :lol:
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:26 pm

Godzfirefly wrote:Taikei, you have once again made a post in which everything you said more or less agrees with (or even repeats) what I said, but I am still left feeling like we're arguing about something and I just lost...

How do you do that? :lol:

I'm a level 5 politicimancer, or something.

My main point was, you're right, not every hippymancer is going to be as powerful as Olive was, but their presence can still be a huge game changer, which can be said of any caster really.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Lilwik » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:41 pm

Godzfirefly wrote:After all, when Janis used her Time Out spell, it could only stop combat for a short time, and she's a Master Hippiemancer.
I suspect that the TIme Out spell wasn't even Hippiemancy. We've seen Hippiemancy stop combat by preventing units from engaging, so if Time Out were Hippiemancy I would expect more of that. Instead it actually froze time, leaving people suspended in the middle of what they were doing like sculptures. Hippiemancy has the Life element and the Matter element, but not the Motion element. Olive and Wanda talk about it in B0E15. Surely I'm not the only one puzzled by a discipline that doesn't understand motion freezing people like statues.

Time Out is the kind of spell that I would expect from Turnamancy or perhaps Weirdomancy, and so I suspect that it actually is Turnamancy. We have no reason to think that Janis doesn't know Turnamancy, especially Turnamancy spells that can be used to halt combat.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:57 pm

That's true, it does seem like it might be a turnamancy spell since it did freeze people, however it's hard to say. Some things in Erfworld seem to function as much on puns as anything else, and 'time out' is generally meant like sending a kid to the corner, but could also be interpreted as more 'taken out of time'.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Godzfirefly » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:56 pm

I don't see a problem with magic without motion leaving units without motion.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Omnimancer » Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:11 pm

Godzfirefly wrote:I don't see a problem with magic without motion leaving units without motion.


Yeah, I don't think Janis was using Turnamancy either. Spookism and Hippiemancy share no elements. Spookism is pure motion, Hippiemancer is life and matter. A hippiemancer would probably have more difficulty casting a spookism spell than any other school. And making people veg out and do nothing seems like a pretty straightforward application of flower power.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Lilwik » Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:23 pm

Omnimancer wrote:And making people veg out and do nothing seems like a pretty straightforward application of flower power.
I agree, but B2P111 does not look like vegging out to me. It looks like time is frozen. If they were vegging out I would expect them to lose interest in the fight and stare off into the distance, or something like that. Instead they look like they are still fighting but motionless.

If it is Flower Power, then I expect that instead of being frozen they are just in a haze and they are standing perfectly still because they have lost the will to move. A sign that would surely tell the difference is whether their poses are sustainable without magic. They hold those poses for over a minute, so if there is no way for a person to balance in that position then they must be magically frozen by something other than mere Flower Power. I don't see any pose that is clearly unsustainable, but some of them are pretty borderline, especially the big one who is fighting the groundhog.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:46 pm

To be fair, despite not having the motion element, Flower Power can make plants move, so it isn't as though movement is entirely outside the purview of a class without the motion element.
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