Caster Combos!

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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Lilwik » Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:08 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:To be fair, despite not having the motion element, Flower Power can make plants move, so it isn't as though movement is entirely outside the purview of a class without the motion element.
Dirtamancy is an even better example of that. Plants have some motion in them naturally, since they grow and flowers can bloom, while dirt sits perfectly still 99.9% of the time unless there is Dirtamancy around.

The real issue isn't that Janis cast a spell that seems to involve motion; the issue is that freezing time seems to be purely about motion, and that screams Spookism.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Omnimancer » Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:13 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:To be fair, despite not having the motion element, Flower Power can make plants move, so it isn't as though movement is entirely outside the purview of a class without the motion element.


I think you can't take life/motion/matter too literally, since lots of classes stray outside their obvious territory. Dirtamancers can animate golems for instance, despite not having motion.

In a more thematic sense I think it's better to view it as the elements of the board game of Erfworld. Life: Who is playing. Motion: What can they do. Matter: What is on the board.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Man in the Mists » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:14 pm

A couple ways you could use a Moneymancer with another caster to literally make money. They would probably require a tricaster link though.

Florist + Moneymancer = money tree orchard

Dirtamancer + Moneymancer = geode farms, although this one might have to be set up on an active mine
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Xellos » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:42 pm

Whispri wrote:A Croakamancer and a Florist working together could set up a great tower defence game.


Nah. This was one of the most epic combos that crossed my mind: "find peace in death".

Generally, croaking is a consequence of some rule. Units croak if they take enough damage, because of a fall, etc. This combo, though, would be just for croaking units. The extent of it (number and levels of targeted units, probability of failing, distance etc.) would probably be limited by the casters' levels, but if you could use that to croak an enemy Ruler (possible boosts with unlinked Turnamancer that trade turns for the missing levels your casters would need) off-turn in a different hex, then it's immensely OP.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Lipkin » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:39 am

How about a Thinkamancer linking with a Foolamancer to alter a unit's perceptions, allowing them to experience and react to everything as if it was in slow motion. Useful for a fighter, invaluable for a strategist.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Lilwik » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:13 am

Lipkin wrote:How about a Thinkamancer linking with a Foolamancer to alter a unit's perceptions, allowing them to experience and react to everything as if it was in slow motion.
That doesn't sound like Foolamancy to me. Everything the unit would be seeing would be real. All that the magic would be doing would be making the unit think faster, which might be pure Thinkamancy or perhaps Thinkamancy linked with Spookism.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Lipkin » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:27 am

Lilwik wrote:
Lipkin wrote:How about a Thinkamancer linking with a Foolamancer to alter a unit's perceptions, allowing them to experience and react to everything as if it was in slow motion.
That doesn't sound like Foolamancy to me. Everything the unit would be seeing would be real. All that the magic would be doing would be making the unit think faster, which might be pure Thinkamancy or perhaps Thinkamancy linked with Spookism.

Foolamancy is about the senses, and this would pertain to that. Jack sent his vision to Jillian in real time, and that was all real.

If you are just thinking faster than everyone else, that doesn't let you take in information faster. It just lets you deal with the information faster once you get it.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Godzfirefly » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:08 am

A more relevant objection...isn't this thread about combos that don't involve linking? I don't know if a link could do what you suggest, but I'm pretty sure an unlinked pair of casters probably couldn't.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Lipkin » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:19 am

Godzfirefly wrote:A more relevant objection...isn't this thread about combos that don't involve linking? I don't know if a link could do what you suggest, but I'm pretty sure an unlinked pair of casters probably couldn't.

It's very late, and I only skimmed the thread title. My bad.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Man in the Mists » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:42 am

I wonder if a Carnymancer can break the rules on how many Shmuckers a Moneymancer can get out of a gem.

There's also a rather scary combination that Wanda and Olive could've used if they were on good terms. Not only poisoning the provisions, but also spelling them with Croakamancy so that the victims are raised. Since the caster knows the corpse's cause of death, they could be raised with decent quality. Even worse if the resulting uncroaked are ordered to attack anybody who didn't eat the food.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Godzfirefly » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:04 am

I could be wrong, but I think a Croakamancer has to be in the same hex as the body she is uncroaking. So, it might not work as a trap like the provisions did against Jillian's group. But, at a state dinner where Olive made the food and Wanda was present...
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Omnimancer » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:31 pm

Godzfirefly wrote:I could be wrong, but I think a Croakamancer has to be in the same hex as the body she is uncroaking. So, it might not work as a trap like the provisions did against Jillian's group. But, at a state dinner where Olive made the food and Wanda was present...


The question really isn't whether you can make croakamancy poison. It's whether magic items can animate units without a croakamancer present (or another caster with an animation scroll).

For example, could a croakamancer and dollamancer team up to make a bracer of animation a warlord could use? Maybe it would require a link.

Plus, we've seen that croakamancy is a delicate art requiring keen knowledge of anatomy. So even if you could automate uncroaking, it would probably only create a very crude and weak unit that would rot in a few turns.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Lilwik » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:42 pm

Omnimancer wrote:Plus, we've seen that croakamancy is a delicate art requiring keen knowledge of anatomy. So even if you could automate uncroaking, it would probably only create a very crude and weak unit that would rot in a few turns.
Or perhaps the Croakamancy item would need to be used continuously. For example, I can imagine that instead of using a Croakamancer's skill at repairing damaged anatomy, one might have an item that pulls around a croaked body like a puppet on strings, so it doesn't matter how the body is damaged. In that case I'd imagine there would be a range limit, so the uncroaked couldn't get too far from the item. The uncroaked might even need to wear the item, in which case it would be strictly one uncroaked per item.

It wouldn't surprise me if a Croakamancer and a Dollamancer working together might be able to figure out something like that.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:12 pm

Lilwik wrote:
Omnimancer wrote:Plus, we've seen that croakamancy is a delicate art requiring keen knowledge of anatomy. So even if you could automate uncroaking, it would probably only create a very crude and weak unit that would rot in a few turns.
Or perhaps the Croakamancy item would need to be used continuously. For example, I can imagine that instead of using a Croakamancer's skill at repairing damaged anatomy, one might have an item that pulls around a croaked body like a puppet on strings, so it doesn't matter how the body is damaged. In that case I'd imagine there would be a range limit, so the uncroaked couldn't get too far from the item. The uncroaked might even need to wear the item, in which case it would be strictly one uncroaked per item.

It wouldn't surprise me if a Croakamancer and a Dollamancer working together might be able to figure out something like that.

That sounds like you're getting into a different discipline at that point. Stagemancy maybe? Hard to say really, but if you're just puppeting an object instead of creating an uncroaked unit, doesn't sound like croakamancy any more.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Omnimancer » Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:11 am

Animating bodies without uncroaking is probably a bone or flesh golem.

The power of unceoaking is that undead units can have most of the abilities they had in life, and keep their specials. An uncroaked warlord still had leadership. An undead digger can still dig.

A corpse golem might be strong, but it probably wouldn't have its specials.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ » Fri May 09, 2014 3:08 pm

Omnimancer wrote:Animating bodies without uncroaking is probably a bone or flesh golem.

The power of unceoaking is that undead units can have most of the abilities they had in life, and keep their specials. An uncroaked warlord still had leadership. An undead digger can still dig.

A corpse golem might be strong, but it probably wouldn't have its specials.



I could see a creepy dollamancer making "puppets" out of corpses, animating them as is or maybe taxidermising them before.

Also, couldn't Sizemore use all the decrypted dust in Spacerock to create death metal golems?
3 Naughtymancers of different disciplines walk into a bar... wait, forget what I just said. A shockmancer and a croakamancer walk into a bar.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Godzfirefly » Fri May 09, 2014 6:19 pm

╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:
Omnimancer wrote:Animating bodies without uncroaking is probably a bone or flesh golem.

The power of unceoaking is that undead units can have most of the abilities they had in life, and keep their specials. An uncroaked warlord still had leadership. An undead digger can still dig.

A corpse golem might be strong, but it probably wouldn't have its specials.



I could see a creepy dollamancer making "puppets" out of corpses, animating them as is or maybe taxidermising them before.

Also, couldn't Sizemore use all the decrypted dust in Spacerock to create death metal golems?

Wouldn't the croaked bodies unpop at the beginning of the next turn? Or do you think Dollamancers or Dirtamancers could override that?
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Lilwik » Fri May 09, 2014 6:34 pm

Godzfirefly wrote:Wouldn't the croaked bodies unpop at the beginning of the next turn?
Corpses don't unpop like that if they have been claimed. We know for example that moving a corpse out of the hex in which it died counts as claiming it. This is mentioned in B0E6 and B1K7.
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Re: Caster Combos!

Postby Omnimancer » Sat May 10, 2014 2:38 pm

Yeah, you can claim a corpse so it rots gradually instead of unpopping next turn.

If it's a harvestable creature, like a dwagon, you can probably choose whether to claim it as a corpse or claim it as food. If claimed as food it probably transforms into rations. A dead dwagon might transform into dwagon burgers and steaks.
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