What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

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What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby Omnimancer » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:55 pm

What's the most basic spell in each school of magic?

For example, the simplest form of carnymancy is letting one unit ignore one rule for one turn.
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Re: What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby wih » Thu May 01, 2014 5:24 am

Hoboken would probably be the most basic shockamancy.
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Re: What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby Lipkin » Thu May 01, 2014 5:44 am

We talking spell? Or innate ability? Croakamancers, Dirtamancers, and Foolmancers all have addition senses that lend them insight into their works.

And when we say simplest, so we mean most basic form, or easiest thing to do? Creating clothing is probably the most basic thing for a Dollmancer, but healing a cloth golem might be simpler.

I'd hazard a guess that outside of just using his dirtamancy sense, tunneling is probably a Dirtamancer's simplest ability.

Increasing unit production is likely a Turnamancer's.

Spell of non-engagement was said to be simple flower power, right?
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Re: What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby Omnimancer » Thu May 01, 2014 10:42 am

The most basic form of weirdomancy is probably disabling a unit's special for one turn.

Adding a temporary special is also probably relatively easy, although you might be restricted in what you can grant.
Something like giving a unit flying or forest capability for one turn seems pretty basic.
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Re: What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby Shai_hulud » Fri May 02, 2014 3:01 am

I'm still not sure spells really exist in the DnD sense of discrete spell lists. The way Maggie and Isaac describe their magic makes it sound like there is no such thing as an actual thinkagram or suggestion spell. It seems those are just words they use to describe a standardized application of their magic. It could be that other classes magic spells are also made up of more complex parts "under the hood" too. But this has been discussed on the forums before to no avail.
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Re: What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby Mrtyuh » Fri May 02, 2014 3:19 am

We have a pretty good idea that basic Croakamancy is, since we've seen a level-1 Croakamancer. That Croakamancer hung a defensive spell on their tower and hit an enemy scout with a Hoboken, which completely drained her juice for the turn. Even without juice, she was able to use her Croakamancy senses to examine a corpse. She had three options when faced with uncroaking bodies. She could focus entirely on one corpse, creating a unit with half its previous levels that would last around a dozen turns. She could uncroak several units, but they'd be weaker. She ended up uncroaking every body in the hex, but they only lasted one turn. Also, she was afraid she couldn't accomplish the mass uncroaking. Wanda was an exceptionally gifted caster. A lesser level-1 Croakamancy may very well have failed. She could provide a leadership bonus while leading uncroaked in battle. She could not lead uncroaked in a dance fight until she reached master-class. So, in other words, a Croakamancer can basically do everything at level-1 that they can do later, but they get better. The uncroaked they create retain more of their former abilities and last longer the higher the caster's level. They gain a few new abilities, such as the dance fighting. They gain more juice they can use each turn.

Do you think this would basically apply to all casters? They are popped basically with all their abilities, but as they level and gain mastery, they have more juice and can use their abilities better?
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Re: What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby Omnimancer » Fri May 02, 2014 6:50 pm

Mrtyuh wrote:Do you think this would basically apply to all casters? They are popped basically with all their abilities, but as they level and gain mastery, they have more juice and can use their abilities better?


I think casters, at least in some disciplines, do unlock some new options as they level up. For example, as Dove put it "as you get more powerful as a Carny, there are more and more rules it’s possible to break". So a level 10 carny can break rules that a level 1 carny cannot. It's not just a matter of getting better at what you can already do.

Of course, she might not have been referring to a hard limit but just a low probability of success. Maybe a level 1 carny can attempt to break any rule, but the failure chance is too high to be practical for some until they reach a higher level. For example, Parson's chance of casting a spell to extinguish an inferno was "a decimal and six or seven zeroes after it". A low level carny trying to cast a high level spell might be almost guaranteed to just waste juice, even if it's theoretically possible.
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Re: What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby Mrtyuh » Fri May 02, 2014 7:35 pm

This is a bit off topic, but something occurred to me that at least somewhat applies to this discuss. I just realized that there is a stark contrast between two categories of casters, and maybe each discipline falls into one of those two categories, even though it hasn't been mentioned in the comic itself: there are casters that keep secrets, and there are casters that don't.

We've seen Thinkamancers, Predictamancers and a Carnymancer all say that there are things about their disciplines which they aren't allowed to talk about, specifically about how it actually works. Even with the one Luckamancer we met, he said he wasn't supposed to talk about how Luckamancy worked. On the other hand, we've seen Dirtamancers, a Croakamancer and a Foolamancer who seem perfectly fine, even happy, talking about the details of their craft. It seems some casters are members of guilds which jealously guard their secrets, while the rest are simple craftsmen who take pride in their work. Since there does seem to be an inherent divide between disciplines, that may mean there is an inherent difference in how there abilities develop. The craftsmen classes may learn as the Croakamancer, simply growing more proficient as they gain confidence and juice. The guild members may need to unlock the hidden mysteries, unlocking new abilities as they progress.

Of course I may be completely off base here. The reason some groups are so secretive may simply be because Rob doesn't feel the time is right to define their mechanics. Still, I thought it might be worth throwing out there.
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Re: What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby Lilwik » Fri May 02, 2014 8:14 pm

Mrtyuh wrote:I just realized that there is a stark contrast between two categories of casters, and maybe each discipline falls into one of those two categories, even though it hasn't been mentioned in the comic itself: there are casters that keep secrets, and there are casters that don't.
I suspect that is mostly cultural and probably doesn't represent anything deep about the nature of magic. Predictamancers keep secrets because even people with good intentions will often abuse Predictamancy. Carnymancy seems rooted in trickery of some sort, and I guess it would be less effective if everyone knew the tricks. Thinkamancy is the deepest of all magics because it goes to the foundations of the human mind and most people don't really want to disillusioned about how their own minds work, and that's in addition to hiding the fact that Charlie can overhear Thinkagrams. Finally, Luckamancy has the unfortunate tendency to sabotage friendly units which is politically awkward. All four seem to be keeping secrets for totally unrelated reasons.

Mrtyuh wrote:The reason some groups are so secretive may simply be because Rob doesn't feel the time is right to define their mechanics.
Rob is far too skilled a writer to do anything simply because it makes the writing easier. That's not a good reason to do something, and I'm sure that everything Rob Balder does has at least one good reason. I expect he does most things for several good reasons, such as an obvious reason plus deeper reasons that build upon the subtext of Erfworld.
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Re: What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Fri May 02, 2014 11:07 pm

Findamancy - Find something (most likely an item or unit) that is relatively close
Predictamancy - Tell if something in the very near future will happen or not (will an attack on this unit hit if I shoot right now?)
Mathamancy - Figure out the odds of victory between two opponents
Turnamancy - Speed up production slightly/turn a low leveled captured infantry
Dollamancy - Create Raiments
Weirdomancy - Add a fairly simple special, such as ranged, to a unit.
Dirtamancy - Tunnel/move dirt around
Changemancy - Turn a small amount of A into B (dirt into sand)
Dittomancy - Copy a single item (like an arrow in flight!)
Lookamancy - See into a fairly close hex
Thinkamancy - Thinkagram, duh :P
Foolamancy - Veil on a single unit
Flower Power - Flaking a unit
Signamancy - Change a unit's appearance
Date-a-mancy - Set two people up on a date? Yeah, really don't know anything about this
Shockamancy - Habooken! Though that might even be below a basic zap for a shockamancer
Croakamancy - Animate a corpse for a few turns
Retconjuration - Retconjuration isn't in the list
Hat Magic - Pull an item out of a hat, maybe even a highly edible bunny
Carnymancy - break a rule for a unit for a turn
Rhyme-o-mancy - Sing a song that would boost other units
Luckamancy - Max out a single 'roll'
Healomancy - Cure a few hits
Moneymancy - Turn schmuckers into gems

So, just my thoughts on the most basic spell for each type of caster.
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Re: What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby Shai_hulud » Fri May 02, 2014 11:51 pm

Mrtyuh wrote:Do you think this would basically apply to all casters? They are popped basically with all their abilities, but as they level and gain mastery, they have more juice and can use their abilities better?

It seems like this is the case for levels but not for Class, which according to Sizemore seems to be qualitatively different in the way they see their own magic from how they did before.
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Re: What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby Omnimancer » Sat May 03, 2014 9:51 am

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:Date-a-mancy - Set two people up on a date? Yeah, really don't know anything about this


This is all we really have been told about date-a-mancy: "Among other things, Hippiemancy is the magic of relationships: detecting and altering the forces of opposition and attraction which bind people or units. Date-a-mancy is the oddest branch of Hippiemancy, in that it follows the Numbers which underlie all action. Date-a-mancy tries to quantify the intangible, things like leadership and compatibility and morale and Loyalty and Duty and even love, by means of match-ups. This can be very useful in warfare and logistics, but tends to wreak havoc among personal and political relationships. Sides tend not to keep their Date-a-mancers very long, because knowing the cold truth behind our interpersonal relationships only causes grief."

So the most basic application of date-a-mancy is probably intuiting simple facts about how two units will interact. Could this unit defeat that unit in a fight? Will these two units get along with each other? It seems a bit like applied psychology.
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Re: What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby Godzfirefly » Sat May 03, 2014 12:58 pm

Omnimancer wrote:So the most basic application of date-a-mancy is probably intuiting simple facts about how two units will interact. Could this unit defeat that unit in a fight? Will these two units get along with each other? It seems a bit like applied psychology.

Or, the simplest date-a-mancy could be enhancing loyalty of a unit for a warlord or ruler.
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Re: What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby drachefly » Tue May 06, 2014 8:36 am

So, high-level Date-a-mancers can mojoport?
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Re: What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby spriteless » Tue May 06, 2014 12:35 pm

What does Mojoport even mean? Is it the teleport beam used by Mojo the despot of a race spineless slavers and TV producer? He made the X-Babies, because X-Men are popular and babies are popular... Is that why everyone looks childish in Erfworld?
T'was a splendidly speedy defection.
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Re: What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby Shai_hulud » Tue May 06, 2014 3:35 pm

Mojoport is from the web comic I linked to.
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Re: What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby CarniDollMancer » Sun May 11, 2014 11:15 am

I don't think a hoboken shot is any school. It seems like the absolute simplest spell that anyone can do. Wanda used one and Digdoug thought about using one. Shockamancy's simplest is probably a step up from that.
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Re: What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby Omnimancer » Sun May 11, 2014 11:41 am

CarniDollMancer wrote:I don't think a hoboken shot is any school. It seems like the absolute simplest spell that anyone can do. Wanda used one and Digdoug thought about using one. Shockamancy's simplest is probably a step up from that.


Yeah, hoboken is just the basic attack spell available to all casters. A level 1 shockamancer might be able to do something more impressive like throw an exploding fireball, that deals AoE damage. They might also have other single target spells like hoboken, but ones that deal more damage and with different damage types.

Casters seem to have a special sense related to their discipline. I wonder if Shockamancers have a "shockamancy sense" that allows them to determine what kind of attacks a target is vulnerable to.
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Re: What's the most basic spell of each magic discipline?

Postby Godzfirefly » Sun May 11, 2014 1:26 pm

Omnimancer wrote:I wonder if Shockamancers have a "shockamancy sense" that allows them to determine what kind of attacks a target is vulnerable to.

Or, at least a sense for what kind of attack is being used at any given time.

Or, even better, what kind of lewd action might be shocking/startling to a target.
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