Book 2 – Text Updates 010

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby theseus2x » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:32 am

Yucca wrote:I don't know why everyone seems so certain that GK will lose this. Janis, in perfect prophet form, said that after the battle there will be "disarray", and Parson should be encouraged to step up.

Losing a battle is a setback, losing an army is a setback. This would throw the entire side into disarray. Losing a Wanda would suck, so would losing Jack. But while I can see this making Stanley very angry, I don't think he would panic. Nor would a situation with Wanda under the command of Jillian be sufficient. (which is completely unlikely anyway, Wanda is not going to submit to Jillian).

It's still early enough in the book that a giant out-of-left-field event could occur and be called a "plot development" rather than a "deus-ex". It might be something mundane that happens, but I'm looking for something big.


I will say this : Its not so much that I think GK will "lose" per se. Indeed, if Wanda, Jack or Ansom were croaked (in Jack's case, permanently) it would leave a LOT of unresolved stuff on the table. Let's face it; when Bogroll and Webinar croaked, they had both lived out their stories. Nothing much left to offer the story. These others do. (Lady Sylvia/Scarlett, however... I will bet you a schmucker she's not long for this world)

No, its rather I don't think GK will win. As you said, I think something has to happen where Parson will wind up in control, and that HAS to be drastic. Losing a bunch of Dwagons wouldn't do it. Stanley REALLY doesn't want to do it.

Here's an idea : Wanda loses the pliers. She gets away, but Jetstone or Jillian (or Charlie!) get ahold of the pliers. That would throw a wrench in everything.

Thoughts?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby pSycHOtic chICkeN » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:43 am

fractal wrote:
DoctorJest wrote:
Atomic wrote:I'm betting good money that Jillian is on a mob of Archons and Jack isn't going to spot it.

How much money? I'll take that bet.

Seconded. Archons are going to out-foolamancy Jack at point blank range, with as bizarre a change as that? No way.

Now, if it turned out that a bunch of the rider-less gwiffons in the background were actually Archons in disguise, that wouldn't particularly strain disbelief.

Incidentally, I'm of the view that the "extra" (either two or four) megalogwiffs were an artist or story mistake. Of course, that doesn't mean that the future story won't adapt to include it, but I doubt it will be central to the plotline.



They are not at point blank range. They are at a boundary and there for in different spaces. A boundary should have a stronger impact on perception than distance inside of a hex.

Attempting to disguise an archon as a gwiffon would be silly even if it was a very ugly archon. Why not congregate in Slately's hall? We have already seen magic used effectively from the tower platform against invading air units. A brick or stone wall is a much more reliable screen than any foolamancy spell. If they are in disguise why not pikers on the wall. Piker plate armor could smooth out enough curves that archons with pikes would look a lot like any other piker.

Slatley would have had a few other thoughts if he was entertaining a hoard of archons in his castle. Unless Slately is gay or very fridged.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:00 am

An impressive update. After each one I wonder, somewhat, what could come up next that would be relevant and interesting. This one certainly fulfills that. We haven't seen inside Jack's head a lot, and this insight is suitably fascinating. Also nice to see some more of Pre-Stanley Faq.

Interesting that Jack observation has him consider her even more cracked then he... and I can't help but feel Jack will play a large role in the upcoming scuffle for Spacerock.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:40 am

theseus2x wrote:Lady Sylvia/Scarlett, however... I will bet you a schmucker she's not long for this world.


No really. The poor lass is a giant red-shirted target right now, the only things she didn't do (yet) is show us pictures of the loving family waiting at home and commenting on how this is one last attack before retirement. Some Disco dance moves would have then resealed it.

Well, hopefully I'm wrong here and Scarlett/Lady Sylvia will live on to annoy joosy and the other antifans for many books to come, but seriously, a poem by Sylvia Plath?! Not boding well.

theseus2x wrote:Here's an idea : Wanda loses the pliers. She gets away, but Jetstone or Jillian (or Charlie!) get ahold of the pliers. That would throw a wrench in everything.

Thoughts?


I like the idea, at least it's different from all the "Jack will turn"/"Wanda will turn" that everyone floats around (former not likely imho, latter has a good chance).

BUT, you could say that one of the narrative developments of Book 1 has been Wanda getting the Pliers. It is something the story moved to. In Erfworld's genre, where there is not a Reset Button after each episode, you expect narrative developments to stick around and be built upon, rather than unbuilt. Just like say in chess, it's often a worse idea to take back a move you just made on the previous turn.

This doesn't prove that what you say won't come to pass (stories do back-and-forths with things after all), I just think it's unlikely. Wanda losing Pliers (while staying loyal to GK) < Wanda allying with Jillian.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby Menas » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:05 pm

Yucca wrote:But while I can see this making Stanley very angry, I don't think he would panic.


Remember that losing ONE battle in book 1 was enough to cause Stanley to abandon his capital and most of his forces there, and consider disbanding them to boot.

Stanley is all about panic and freaking out when the slightest thing goes wrong.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby SteveMB » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:25 pm

Menas wrote:Remember that losing ONE battle in book 1 was enough to cause Stanley to abandon his capital and most of his forces there, and consider disbanding them to boot.

Stanley is all about panic and freaking out when the slightest thing goes wrong.


He can't be all that prone to panicking and freaking out when things go wrong, or he would have been reduced to hdiing in his room sucking his thumb by the beginning of tBfGK. He'll blow his top, sure, but afterwards he'll start trying to figure out what to do next in a more or less rational manner (and, given the situation at the time, bugging out to Faq looked like a reasonable option).
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:39 pm

Menas wrote:Remember that losing ONE battle in book 1 was enough to cause Stanley to abandon his capital and most of his forces there, and consider disbanding them to boot.

Stanley is all about panic and freaking out when the slightest thing goes wrong.


To be fair, Stanley just watched half of dwagons (probably 1/3 of all his total strength) getting croaked as result of the combined foolishness of both his chief warlord and chief croakamancer. He had the choice to trust them, heighten the stakes and risk losing his escape route or to cut and run and later start another game. He chose wrong, but it wasn't a completely unreasonable choice.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby Yucca » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:18 pm

To all the people saying Wanda will turn: if she does, Jillian is in charge. Considering everything we know about Wanda, do you really think she'll be ok with that?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby dan2178 » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:23 pm

Menas wrote:
Yucca wrote:But while I can see this making Stanley very angry, I don't think he would panic.


Remember that losing ONE battle in book 1 was enough to cause Stanley to abandon his capital and most of his forces there, and consider disbanding them to boot.

Stanley is all about panic and freaking out when the slightest thing goes wrong.


Actually, it was a good plan by Stanley. Instead of staying around and getting croaked, you take your best units and a foolmancer to a new capital. You lay low for a couple hundred turns and build your strength up again by having Jack veil the capital and not settling the other two cities. The only difference I would have done is taken along all of the casters, especially Wanda as if Ansom captured and turned her, she'd say where Stanley was headed.

The reason it failed was because Jillian knew what Stanley was going to do. However, Stanley probably didn't know Jillian was a former FAQ unit (I don't see Wanda volunteering that info). Under the circumstances, it was a good move by Stanley. I think most readers didn't like the move because he threw Parson under the bus but when you're an Overlord in Erfworld, you have to look out for number one.

From Parson's point of view, the better move would be to attack Ansom's stack with every GK dwagon. Bring some down from the capital with the two remaining warlords and if they win, have the warlords bring back the Arkenpliers with the type B dwagons. However, Stanley would probably keep the pilers for himself and not give them to Wanda (so no decrypted units). A dead Ansom could break up the RCC but if not, GK would still probably lose and Stanley would get croaked. If Stanley's plan worked, he'd get away and be able to rebuild.

Thus, while Parson's plan was better for his point of view, Stanley's plan was better for Stanley. Thus, Stanley probably made the right call by fleeing GK with Jack.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby yay » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:27 pm

Watsit Hoohow wrote:
Yucca wrote:I don't know why everyone seems so certain that GK will lose this. Janis, in perfect prophet form, said that after the battle there will be "disarray", and Parson should be encouraged to step up.


Gobwin Knob is going to lose somewhere in this. Janis predicts disarray. A total victory for Gobwin Knob in no way implies disarray. A very costly victory might, but then, very costly victories are so for a reason. GK is going to come out of this for the worse, and it'll be something bad enough to encourage Stanley to put Parson in command.


but nothing says he will take command, only that he should. the common consensus seems to be that boop hits the fan and parson instantly takes command and saves the day. Parson could very well not step up to the challenge, sizemore might not want him to lead and not encourage him, and stanley may just ignore him altogether. janice was just saying the best case scenario is for parson to take command. correct me if im wrong but Rob said parson was not the main focus of book 2. what better way for him to come back into focus than by taking up the mantle of command at the end of the book/begining of the next book?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby Sinrus » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:03 pm

I have a hard time seeing Stanley put Parson back on the command seat. Sure Janis told Sizemore to get him in charge, but he doesn't want Parson as Chief Warlord. More importantly, PARSON doesn't want Parson as Chief Warlord. No, this is Jillian's book. It's her time to shine.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby Zeku » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:45 pm

The obvious progression for these characters is for Wanda to be denied her dominance in some turn of events, and become violent. Jack, sensing his beloved in danger, will be the one to turn or betray his side. I'm pleasantly amused that so many people seem to have overlooked the little foreshadowing about Jack's behavior, earlier in this chapter.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby Dr Pepper » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:57 pm

I think the best comment on this update is the fact that PlotArmor hasn't complained about it. Not even a peep.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby Llord_Droll » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:01 pm

Perfect plot path?

Wanda gets croaked or captured.

But Stanley will probably be his own chief warlord for a while.

The series demands that Parson take center stage again but not until the final acts.

Setting it up is enough for now.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby Sinrus » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:35 pm

Dr Pepper wrote:I think the best comment on this update is the fact that PlotArmor hasn't complained about it. Not even a peep.


NUCLEAR ROFLCOPTER
(Yes, I just made up the term. You can all use it if you want.)

Zeku wrote:The obvious progression for these characters is for Wanda to be denied her dominance in some turn of events, and become violent. Jack, sensing his beloved in danger, will be the one to turn or betray his side. I'm pleasantly amused that so many people seem to have overlooked the little foreshadowing about Jack's behavior, earlier in this chapter.


What foreshadowing? I just can't see Jack turning.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:49 pm

Dr Pepper wrote:I think the best comment on this update is the fact that PlotArmor hasn't complained about it. Not even a peep.


Sinrus wrote:NUCLEAR ROFLCOPTER


What they said.

But give them time, our resident curmudgeon may yet have something to say :) This place wouldn't be what it is without the various takes people come and post here.

Zeku wrote:The obvious progression for these characters is for Wanda to be denied her dominance in some turn of events, and become violent. Jack, sensing his beloved in danger, will be the one to turn or betray his side. I'm pleasantly amused that so many people seem to have overlooked the little foreshadowing about Jack's behavior, earlier in this chapter.


Jack turning because Jillian were in danger of getting croakrypted is a plot development I can (and did) see, but that foreshadowing you speak of eludes me. Feel free to be pleasantly amused, but please enlighten us myopians to your farsightedness.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby Ansan Gotti » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:54 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Jack turning because Jillian were in danger of getting croakrypted is a plot development I can (and did) see, but that foreshadowing you speak of eludes me. Feel free to be pleasantly amused, but please enlighten us myopians to your farsightedness.


The artistic rendering of him as that Final Fantasy character, I believe.

Separately, I love the wanda = skull analogy, I don't believe the placement of that flower in the artwork is accidental.

I also think losing lots of dwagons will make Stanley so mad that he will promote Parson.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:56 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:The artistic rendering of him as that Final Fantasy character, I believe.


As a brainwashed follower of the Yahtzee School of Game Appreciation, I still fail to understand that. What FF character?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby Sinrus » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:57 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:I also think losing lots of dwagons will make Stanley so mad that he will promote Parson.


Why would he promote Parson for that? I can just see him yelling that Parson's supposed to be the perfect warlord.

BTW, awesome name. Nice pun.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 010

Postby Darkmantle » Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:45 pm

There is no need to make Parson Chief Warlord. The Chief Warlord should be out in the field putting their uber bonuses to good use. What you need is a Chief Warlord that will listen to Parson's advice and not fuck it up or argue against a dirty trick.
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