Book 2 – Page 18

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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby Keldaria » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:52 am

actually, i beleave according to earilier text updates, he covered abit more natural thinkamancy where a sides allies would naturally know whos that sides enemies or who isn't.

Its also unknown just how many of those dwagons are decrypted or not... its very likely that the one wanda herself is riding is since she seems to profer decrypted units but it is a virtual unknown at this point... there has been alot of battles lately for GK side, its not unlikely that they've all been crypted and decrypted atleast once.

My personal 2 cents is that there is a hippiemancer in the garason, it was mentioned that 1 unknown caster was present with the FaQ forces, most of us assumed it was the Turnamancer that Charlie had Hired for Faq many turns ago, but I'd wager a bet that Charlie sent her a hippiemancer. just read into the last text update abit, Jillians Chief warlord made it a point to mentally "Discuss" his thoughts on a hippiemancer and their ability to create love and relationships between units... well Jillian and Wanda have had a history of that, a hippiemancer could probibly amp those feelings up enough to cause wanda to turn I imagine.

Then we're right back to charlies plan, as someone else mentioned eariler, by splitting up the arkentools charlies ended the war of tools vs royalty and has made himself hireable agian to the masses, if for nothing else than protection. he's also setup GK in a weak position by denying stanley and natural allies (which is basicly all he has since none of the normal kings would ally with him) and leaves him with a very simple way of ether negotiating for parson by offering stanley protection or by taking him by force which it doesn't seem like many of the dwagons are left back in GK, to take the garason by the air with arcons would take minimal effert since most of the forces they have left in GK aren't able to attack air units unless they land.

Unless wanda can resist the offer which i seriously wonder if she can, then this will be a major game changer.... I also theorise that if everything goes off as planned, and parson is captured by charlie and wanda is with Jillian, if Faq won't ally with Charlescom since Wanda values parsons input soo much... I mean imagine what Parson could do with aid of such a huge Arcon force that charlie has and wanda and the arkenpliers. heck if they simpy put stanley to the ax then they have the arkenhammer too, and it wouldn't be that hard from that position.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby teratorn » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:41 am

ftl wrote:
teratorn wrote:Jack is in the airspace inside the city, yet he hasn't detected the archons. Where are they?


Or perhaps there aren't any. Seriously, Charlie could have other ways of interfering besides "army of veiled archons." For example, we know that there's a mystery caster - that's far more than enough to make a big difference... We haven't had much (if any) indication that there's an archon army there - I feel it's been mostly this forum getting attached to that theory with little to no actual text support for that. We know Jillian had some minor logistical support from archons on the way from FAQ to Jetstone, but that's all we know, other than the fact that Charlie's got some Sekrit Plan.


Text update 6 says Charlie has a significant force in the battlespace. There's archons in them thar hexes!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby Firkraag » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:15 am

Interesting thought:

Jillian suggests that if Wanda turns, her decrypted units will turn with her. Makes sense, as she creates and controls them.

Then what about Parson? Assuming he "takes sides" and is affected by loyalty at all (which is debateable), he was summoned by Wanda. For Stanley, yes, but it really was the caster's doing after all. Do you think he might switch sides with her, like the Decrypted?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby Ansan Gotti » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:28 am

Zeku wrote:What do you think it is?


I've already openly asked you what your point is, and so I'm not really interested in playing this type of game with you.

If you become interested in honest discussion, feel free to expound. Until then, I'll just assume you don't really have a point.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby Camouflage » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:30 am

Firkraag wrote:Interesting thought:

Jillian suggests that if Wanda turns, her decrypted units will turn with her. Makes sense, as she creates and controls them.

Then what about Parson? Assuming he "takes sides" and is affected by loyalty at all (which is debateable), he was summoned by Wanda. For Stanley, yes, but it really was the caster's doing after all. Do you think he might switch sides with her, like the Decrypted?


I don't think so. Parson's Loyalty seems to go where he choses it to go. At first he accepted GK as "his" side because he liked the idea of joining "the bad guys", later his loyalty - and this time true loyalty - switched to his newfound friends. It made him even spare Maggie when he had the chance to pay her back for what she did to Misty and Jack. And and we have seen in the past, that Duty definitely puts him under Stanleys command.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby Camouflage » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:46 am

Glenn wrote:Because we don't know what Charlie really wants, besides a bigger Archon fleet, it's hard to say how he will react if Wanda turns.


Hm, the question is:
Are Parson and his special abilities worth pulling off all of this? I mean, could Charlie have forseen this chain of events and perhaps even orchestrated it on purpose?

With the Decrypted out of the picture Charlie would have several options to get to Parson. Either by trying to take GK and capture Parson (remember, ATM there are still decrypted Archons in GK, doing the scouting for Stanleys dragon-hunts, which make infiltrating GK-battlespace pretty much impossible) or by pulling the same "hey, you look like you could need some help, and hey, what a coincidence, I have some help to offer"-stunt he did with Jillian.

And with Jillian and Wanda running amok in the world and Parson on his side to use his forces to the maximum effect, he would be in a very good position to get back into everyone's good books and, after dealing with Faq, would be free to call about ANY price for his services - and people would pay it...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby Ansan Gotti » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:48 am

Camouflage wrote:I don't think so. Parson's Loyalty seems to go where he choses it to go. At first he accepted GK as "his" side because he liked the idea of joining "the bad guys", later his loyalty - and this time true loyalty - switched to his newfound friends. It made him even spare Maggie when he had the chance to pay her back for what she did to Misty and Jack. And and we have seen in the past, that Duty definitely puts him under Stanleys command.


I'm really curious to see what happens to units which turn when they're in the same hex with non-turning units. I know they can't be in the same stack, but the implication is that they can be in the same hex.

Even if Parson had an opportunity to turn, would he -- or any unit -- do that if the result would be a close-to-immediate death sentence?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby Sieggy » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:57 am

I don't think the mystery caster is a Hippiemancer. Text Six says that the caster remained silent on their circuitous route to Jetstone, which would seem uncharacteristic of a Hippiemancer. I would think he / she would sense Jillian's inner struggle and try to help her deal with it. But Jillian was left alone with her doubts . . .
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby theseus2x » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:17 pm

Regarding Charlie and Wanda : I can't see any compromise there. Wanda is too powerful. She will inevitably challenge Charlie. Whatever Charlie's plans are, I am convinced taking out Wanda is the central point.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby SteveMB » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:32 pm

arin wrote:The only problem I have is a simple logistical one, which I hope isn't a brewing mistake on the author's part - it's not Faq's turn. It's still GK's turn, and that means that Faq's current forces would be as useless in hitting Jetstone's garrison as Charlie's forces were in hitting Gobwin Knob's, since they can't cross into the garrison when it's not their turn. Likewise, if Wanda and Co. flip to Faq, it will no longer be their turn either, which will make Jetstone's garrison completely safe, at least until Gobwin Knob ends turn. Then it's basically a toss up - if Faq's turn comes before Jetstone's, they're good to go, but if Jetstone's turn comes first, the column and casters pull back to the city and take on the Faq/Decrypted Alliance. So Jillian's offer to take the city "right now" is a technical impossibility.

For the moment, Faq is apparently allied to Jetstone; as far as I can tell, having a bunch of units turn to the the Faq side would have no immediate effect on that. My best guess is that what Jillian is proposing (sincerely or otherwise) is to enter the garrison and then break alliance at swordpoint (just like what Webinar thought we was doing during their frank and open exchange of viewpoints).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby Fug » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:11 pm

The Dwagons are an obvious complication.

Wanda could point this out to Jillian and ask her to simply step aside explaining that they will take the garrison (not burn it) using the dwagons to absorb most of the damage.

Wanda takes the garrison and then can decide what to do with respect to Jillian's offer. Jillian could croak the remaining GK dwagons on faq's turn without having broken treaty leaving Wanda set to decrypt dwagons and possibly turn to faq if she chooses. We really have no idea what happens if Slately is croaked, given Ossomer is the heir, for example Wanda might become the de facto ruler of Slately's kingdom if it passes to Ossomer.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby theseus2x » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:19 pm

Keldaria wrote:Its also unknown just how many of those dwagons are decrypted or not... its very likely that the one wanda herself is riding is since she seems to profer decrypted units but it is a virtual unknown at this point... there has been alot of battles lately for GK side, its not unlikely that they've all been crypted and decrypted atleast once.


Its not a bad theory, but I don't know how much I can believe that. GK seems to have been totally steam-rolling the competition, and it takes a lot to croak a Dwagon. Now obviously, she could have intentionally croaked/decrypted a Dwagon, but I imagine Stanley and Co. would have noticed this.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby ftl » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:41 pm

teratorn wrote:
ftl wrote:
teratorn wrote:Jack is in the airspace inside the city, yet he hasn't detected the archons. Where are they?


Or perhaps there aren't any. Seriously, Charlie could have other ways of interfering besides "army of veiled archons." For example, we know that there's a mystery caster - that's far more than enough to make a big difference... We haven't had much (if any) indication that there's an archon army there - I feel it's been mostly this forum getting attached to that theory with little to no actual text support for that. We know Jillian had some minor logistical support from archons on the way from FAQ to Jetstone, but that's all we know, other than the fact that Charlie's got some Sekrit Plan.


Text update 6 says Charlie has a significant force in the battlespace. There's archons in them thar hexes!


Hm. Good call, I forgot that line. "Charlie didn't want either side knowing he had significant forces in the battlespace." So he's got significant forces somewhere very close by, and nobody but Jill knows what they are and where...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby Ansan Gotti » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:47 pm

Fug wrote:The Dwagons are an obvious complication.
Wanda could point this out to Jillian and ask her to simply step aside explaining that they will take the garrison (not burn it) using the dwagons to absorb most of the damage.
Wanda takes the garrison and then can decide what to do with respect to Jillian's offer. Jillian could croak the remaining GK dwagons on faq's turn without having broken treaty leaving Wanda set to decrypt dwagons and possibly turn to faq if she chooses. We really have no idea what happens if Slately is croaked, given Ossomer is the heir, for example Wanda might become the de facto ruler of Slately's kingdom if it passes to Ossomer.


While that might be very logical, neither one of these two is seeming very logical right now. To me, Jillian seems to have caught the wave of an idea and has jumped in with both feet, and Wanda is still smarting from her lover's past rejection, and is now being offered the opportunity to "fly off to Paris" with her on a crazy, wild, whim of a lark, upsetting alliances and overturning the entire Erfworld table, practically.

It's the hard way. The very hard way. And based on Wanda's expressions over the last couple of pages, my money's on her taking it.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby HandofShadows » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:58 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:It's the hard way. The very hard way.


Hey, they both LOVE it the hard way. :D
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby dan2178 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:01 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:
Fug wrote:The Dwagons are an obvious complication.
Wanda could point this out to Jillian and ask her to simply step aside explaining that they will take the garrison (not burn it) using the dwagons to absorb most of the damage.
Wanda takes the garrison and then can decide what to do with respect to Jillian's offer. Jillian could croak the remaining GK dwagons on faq's turn without having broken treaty leaving Wanda set to decrypt dwagons and possibly turn to faq if she chooses. We really have no idea what happens if Slately is croaked, given Ossomer is the heir, for example Wanda might become the de facto ruler of Slately's kingdom if it passes to Ossomer.


While that might be very logical, neither one of these two is seeming very logical right now. To me, Jillian seems to have caught the wave of an idea and has jumped in with both feet, and Wanda is still smarting from her lover's past rejection, and is now being offered the opportunity to "fly off to Paris" with her on a crazy, wild, whim of a lark, upsetting alliances and overturning the entire Erfworld table, practically.

It's the hard way. The very hard way. And based on Wanda's expressions over the last couple of pages, my money's on her taking it.


That's a good point. It may not be a well-thought plan at all, just a spur of the moment idea.

As for whether or Charlie is behind this, I think that no matter what happens in Erfworld, some people will claim that it is due to Charlie's influence. Charlie could get croaked and someone would propose a theory that Charlie's plan all along was to get croaked because he was sick of Erfworld and wanted to cause chaos after he died :P
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby gameboy1234 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:13 pm

SteveMB wrote:
oslecamo2 wrote:People, people, have you seriously forgot the begginning of the comics?
...
Jillian smiles just as she's smiling now, and offers Wanda the chance to turn to her side.

Wanda's answer?

When you ask for the easy way, you get the easy way, but when you ask for the very easy way, you get the very hard way.


...
2. Then, Wanda was still trying to fulfil the prophecy that she would wield an Arkentool; staying in the middle of a battle where two of them were going to be present may have seemed like the most promising route to that end. Now, she is attuned to the Arkenpliers, and has a different agenda (which may be simply "try to figure out what to do next") that may be more compatible with taking Jillian up on her offer.



I think you both make a good point here. The important part I think is on this page: Wanda says "Your fate and mine are intertwined." I think Wanda has more predictions. Just like book one, we don't know what it's been predicted that Wanda will do. We found out at the end that Wanda was predicted to attune to an Akentool; it explained a lot about the comic. Now, I think there's another prediction that we aren't privy to, but Wanda is acting on.

Jillian however, is a bit of a flake, and seeks to run away from her fate (like she did after Faq fell). Wanda wants to meet her fate head on. I don't know if Wanda will take Jillian's offer. What's the line from Rocky Horror? "I've got to keep control." I think that's where Wanda's at. She can't really trust Jillian to meet her fate, and Stanley is easy to manipulate. So it's Stanley for the evil win, for now.

But I wonder if Wanda will make a counter offer. What I think might happen is Wanda will break off and form her own side (she's the last of her tribe, remember? Like Vurp. So she is the chief.) Then ally with Jillian. That'll give her a bit more control over her own troops I think.

Then there's the dwagons. They're Stanley's. The solution is simple though. Hit Jetstone (or Hagar's troops in the field close by). Let the dwagons take all the hits. Decrypt them. Now Stanley is much less needed.

But I still say the best way to deal with Stanley is to just croak and decrypt him. Wanda shows up with Ansom and Ossomer for a "strategy planning". Wack Stanley. Decrypt him. Hand him the Akenhammer and say "now control the dwagons for me."
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby multilis » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:33 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:But I still say the best way to deal with Stanley is to just croak and decrypt him. Wanda shows up with Ansom and Ossomer for a "strategy planning". Wack Stanley. Decrypt him. Hand him the Akenhammer and say "now control the dwagons for me."

Unknown whether Stanley can wield hammer or still be overlord after decrypting, similar to unknown whether caster is still caster after decrypting.

Possible Stanley could put up a fight, possible every unit in hex would go after Wanda and friends... they may be "frozen", unable to leave hex but they may still carry out their overlord's last order.

Possible decrypted units can eventually turn, Ansom already gives hints of this, and being a killer of overlord increases chances that Ansom and Ossomer will one day backstab Wanda.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby Ansan Gotti » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:21 pm

HandofShadows wrote:
Ansan Gotti wrote:It's the hard way. The very hard way.


Hey, they both LOVE it the hard way. :D


Exactamundo. :)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 18

Postby theseus2x » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:44 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:While that might be very logical, neither one of these two is seeming very logical right now. To me, Jillian seems to have caught the wave of an idea and has jumped in with both feet, and Wanda is still smarting from her lover's past rejection, and is now being offered the opportunity to "fly off to Paris" with her on a crazy, wild, whim of a lark, upsetting alliances and overturning the entire Erfworld table, practically.

It's the hard way. The very hard way. And based on Wanda's expressions over the last couple of pages, my money's on her taking it.


Yes, but....

Where could the story go from there?

I'm thinking something is going to go wrong here. I'm thinking most of the characters who have been the subject of recent updates are about to be f*cked.
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