Book 2 – Text Updates 012

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby MonteCristo » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:24 am

PlotArmour wrote:Firstly, as far as we see in book 1, Ansom made all the decisions for forces in his side. Warlords can see the stats and points of their units. Even Stanley can see the points of decrypted units, which belong to Wanda (something she reaffirms for us). So the leader of the RCC2 should be able to see the points and stats of the units in their side (regardless of whether those forces can break alliance if their leader tells them to). We haven't been given any evidence to suggest if the soldier is veiled, then the warlord for whom they are fighting suddenly loses the ability to see their points, or more importantly to detect that they have a unit there.

Ansom had been consulting the other warlords in all matters, and it has not been shown that he has full authority over them... fact of the matter is, the allied units may have only been following ansom's orders because the warlor'ds commanding those units are WILLINGLY following his orders... hell at time it seems like the jetstone troops are following the orders of of foreign warlord's (it was a foreign commander who gave the actual order for the units to start attacking the walls which included the jetstone's cloth golems)... they are sharing the command where needed... we have also seen no evidence that a leader CAN see if the units of an allied side that do not belong to him are under a veil... the ONLY thing that we know for certain Ansom had authority over was ending the turn...

Ansom was given final say in all decisions because the others respected his position as leader... this however did not mean they were forced to follow him... If ansom ordered them to do something they really did not want to do they may have simply refused... take Jillian for instance. She was allied to the RCC, and yet she showed herself able to disobey his order's if she wanted to.

Also Ansom did NOT know all the units at all times... when Parson attacked the seige units, Ansom had no idea he was loosing units... he had to wait unit he recieved a battle report from those that were in the column.

In fact, only recently we see Ossomer can tell whether or not his forces have been veiled, despite being within where the veil itself would be.

not sure what you're referring too... i've seen no veils cast since Ossomer joined

If an ally can really sneak in forces and you don't get to see their units, it not only seems problematic in light of book 1, but really begs the question of why you'd ever forge an alliance, if they can sneak in any number of troops into your battlespace (underground, wherever), especially someone you don't trust 100%. You certainly wouldn't let them in your battlespace. You suggest that it's because they're desperate, but there is no reason they couldn't have deployed Jillian elsewhere (behind a hillside, in a cave, etc), you know, somewhere other than the middle of their fortifications. Being desperate doesn't mean being stupid. And given the high level of distrust right now they have of Haggar, and all their allies generally, you'd expect Jetstone to be extra wary and cautious... they'd be scouting every place they could for a sign of deception or veils. In the time Jillian has been there/the archons have, they've found nothing with over 48 warlords, casters, access to fliers, etc?! It's incredibly implausible. While it's possible that maybe a few Megalogwiffons are veiled archon forces (though it also stretches credibility given you'd think Duncan for eg would have noticed), heck that would explain the magical increase in their size (from 6 to 10, because it was plot convenient), that doesn't seem like enough of a force to sway the battle. In addition, it's hard to see how nobody would have noticed yet. It's definitely ridiculous that nobody would notice cloud moving at the same speed as Jillian enter the battlespace with her.

Place Jillian outside the city? in the field? you mean just like the rest of the jetstone troops? oh yes, that would have been a brilliant move by jetstone :roll:
And no, Jetstone does NOT have a high distrust of all their allies, just haggar... They don't suspect Jillian to pull anything because she has Don King's influence backing her up, and Slately has shown no sign of Distrusting the Don... really it's just like Slately said in his update " Why give a care for a horsefly, when the horse is charging?"... If they can't trust Jillian or make use of Haggar then they are doomed anyway... without Jillian their in the garrison, spacerock would have fallen instantly... had Jillian betrayed the RCC and took over spacerock for herself, then they are still screwed; damned if you do, damned if you don't... Hell, how is forming an alliance any different than forming one in the real world? in WWII, the American's could have easily gotten an army into england, and then betrayed them and sold them out to the germans...

Betrayal works both ways... you don't want your allies to betray you then you should never betray anyone... Hell, if Haggar did break alliance to take over Jetstone they could risk their relationship with all their neighbors... a lot of their friend's may start thinking that Haggar might be planning the same thing for them... next time Haggar finds need for some extra help against n enemy, they will find no one willing to risk giving haggar a chance to betray them. Hell charlie knows this best, main reason he doesn't break his contracts is because he knows that sides need to know that they can trust him... you make yourself to be untrustworthy and you put yourself at risk

And again... if they do not suspect Jillian to be keeping secrest from them, then they will not try to see if something is "off" about her units and be looking for veils when she moves.
You got 48 warlord's, but none of them are looking at Jillian's units because she is their ally.
As to the rest, bizarre explanations could technically pull this off, if they're not DEM's, but I'm skeptical, and recently hints in the narrative have only worsened my fears (why are there now 10 Megas?). I don't agree on your analysis of game breaking power... that stuff would be hugely gamebreaking, and seems beyond any magic we've seen so far. In the case of teleporting, only a few obvious problems render it too powerful. We're not just talking teleporting, we're talking teleporting an army into another hex, when it isn't your turn. It renders the whole turn system useless, because a mancer with such teleporting powers would be able to ignore turns. That's gamebreaking.

Sizemore, Wanda and Maggie ALL managed to cast spells during the RCC's turn during the final attack on GK

Yes Parson did say that they could not "cast one their tun" but you have to take it into possible context...
first possibility, certain magic might be barred from being cast on the enemy turn while others are not... Veil's might be barred
Second possibility, when it is not your turn you can still cast but only when the enemy is in the hex... Parson's line in this case is meant to say that they could not cast a useful viel to hide the dwagons until after they were already found... the enemy would have to enter the hex before Jack could use magic

so no, if maggie, sizemore, and wanda were able to cast in that final fight for GK on the RCC's turn, i see no reason for someone to cast a teleportation spell to bring a whole lot of units from a nearby hex during GK's turn... not game breaking
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby atalex » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:33 am

Deus ex Machina


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it does.

Hat magic has been around since Book 1 and has always implied some form of teleportation or transference magic. Real life magicians who perform tricks with magic hats generally do so by making objects disappear into the hat and then reappear at a dramatic moment. The summer updates have clearly foreshadowed that Charlie has forces put at Jillian's which have not yet been revealed in Book 2. Book 2 went out of its way to let us know that there is a hatamancer in the area who was being held in reserve. The author even went to the trouble of giving him a name -- Cubbins -- which, IIRC, he didn't do for the dittomancer who actually appeared in several strips. And lo and behold, Jillian is very prominently attired in a hat, something that she never did in Book 1 except for those occasions when she was wearing a magic hat.

I don't know whether Jillian is going to pull a squadron of Archons out of her hat at a dramatic moment, but I have to ask: How much foreshadowing do you need before you will accept an unforeseen plot twist as not being a Deus Ex Machina?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby Cyanshine » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:34 am

"but given him this Second Life." Hilarious :D Good update :D
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby PlotArmour » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:46 am

I'm not suggesting Jillian suddenly becomes the servant of RCC2, no more than I expect Jillian can just disband Wanda's troops without her consent if they ally together. But being under the same alliance banner clearly creates some limits on you, in the sense you can no longer do everything you normally would, and the leader of the coalition is making alot of your decisions for you. Ansom consulted, but he certainly didn't before every decision, like when he declares they will end turn here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0007.html), without any consultation.

It'll be strange if Jillian can do some of the things suggested without her leader's permission.

Ossomer a few strips back, sitting on the dragon, observes they don't fly under veil. Of course, we don't know for sure if you can see through a veil within it, so we don't know if this is proof, it's just one of the many indicators I've noted.

As for your lame eye roll, I agree that would be a bad plan, but only because I don't think Jillian can do some of the things people have suggested (like hide her unit stats, sneak in units disguised as Megas, have her own turn, etc). If she can do those things, why not hide her in one of many other places? Hell, even right behind the city would be enough cover. In a cave near the city... behind a hill near the city.

The "warlords wouldn't suspect Jillian's units" is incredibly naive and ridiculous. The rest I've covered already, save for the following; teleporting.

It's not at all like you casting magic in your own hex on another turn, because none of the magic they let you cast alters the game mechanics. Thinkmancy sending messages isn't going to slant fights too much, nor does casting defensive magics in your own hex, while being attacked or otherwise. What does render the game mechanics useless is letting a caster make an entire army appear in the middle enemy territory, during their turn. Move doesn't let you move into other territory during their turn, so something completely violating that basically breaks the game and mechanics we've had ingrained as the underlying reality of the comic. If that happens, it'll be ridiculously lame as well. And you'd wonder "why didn't a side do this before? Why hasn't it been thought of?"
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby PlotArmour » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:47 am

atalex wrote:
Deus ex Machina


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it does.

Hat magic has been around since Book 1 and has always implied some form of teleportation or transference magic. Real life magicians who perform tricks with magic hats generally do so by making objects disappear into the hat and then reappear at a dramatic moment. The summer updates have clearly foreshadowed that Charlie has forces put at Jillian's which have not yet been revealed in Book 2. Book 2 went out of its way to let us know that there is a hatamancer in the area who was being held in reserve. The author even went to the trouble of giving him a name -- Cubbins -- which, IIRC, he didn't do for the dittomancer who actually appeared in several strips. And lo and behold, Jillian is very prominently attired in a hat, something that she never did in Book 1 except for those occasions when she was wearing a magic hat.

I don't know whether Jillian is going to pull a squadron of Archons out of her hat at a dramatic moment, but I have to ask: How much foreshadowing do you need before you will accept an unforeseen plot twist as not being a Deus Ex Machina?


We've covered this in another thread. It's not my fault you don't understand English. I'll repost if for you in a sec though. I'll also add, that Cubbins can't know what Jillian has plannd, cos he'd tell Slately... so whatever this ace in the hole is, it's just what Jillian's caster can do.

Dues Ex Machina (says Wikipedia)- "is a plot device in which a person, group, or thing appears suddenly, and at the exactly appropriate moment, in order to conveniently and unexpectedly help a character overcome a previously believed insolvable difficulty."
The usage is not incorrect, even if your Princess Bride references would otherwise be cute. Nor does the build up of background info vis Charlie and Jillian make it not a Duex Ex Machina, and since you're confused, I'll explain why. As you may know, the term originates from ancient Greek theatre, when at the end a god would usually come and resolve everyone's problems. Now, this wasn't a surprise, everyone watching the plays knew this usually happened... indeed, everyone knew who the Gods were, and that they were prone to interfere in the affairs of mortals. The reason it sucked was because it was often a wholly unsatisfying resolution to the plot, which allowed the pre-established world of the play, and it's rules, to be ignored. That is exactly what looks to be a few pages away. Why?

1) Yes, we know Charlie wants to be involved, but we also know everyone is hostile to him, every nearby kingdom in fact.
2) Everyone, including the coalition will be on the lookout for veils, not least of all because GK has a foolmancer. In order to sneak GK's dwagon army in, they had to disguise it as a regular army, and fair enough. But what we apepar to be getting set up for is a literal "Archons invisibly snuck up to Spacerock, and are there now". If the plot doesn't go this way, all for the good, but I feel that's where it is headed. You have to wonder why GK wouldn't do this with massive forces if it's possible.
3) Especially because Jack is a master class foolmancer. A few replies I see try to tone him down, but so far we have him veiling whole cities from hostiles for years (however many turns that is, over 700 it seems), to the point nobody knew they existed. The reaction to his abilities from respected warlords like Caesar was complete incredulity. He's been very impressive to date, and it's really unlikely there is an Archon equivalent as good or better. Let alone lots of them.
4) If the Archons aren't in the battle space, then they're basically useless. So either the story is headed in a very different way, of they are somehow hidden in the battle space of Spacerock, and none of Jetstone's many warlords has noticed them at all, despite the fact that foolmancy needs to leave traces. Absurd.
5) The explanations for how they could have entered the battlespace without alerting others to their presence via the turn system are wholly unsatisfying. Jillian added them to the alliance without telling anyone? WTF? What authority does she have to do that? It also seems complete ridiculous. They don't use a turn? That's false, we saw in book 1.

Most importantly, the action from here on is likely to be silly, though I'll reserve judgement until I see it, because Jack, the archons, etc, should all pick up on the army of Archons before they get too close. This is a problem because if the Archons are overwhelming and can beat GK, then GK will be able to retreat, and can't be followed. If the Archons are weak enough that GK can beat them and Jillian, then it'll be a good fight to read, but bizarrely poor planning on Charlie and Jillian's part (plus, an even fight seems unlikely for a 24(?) page book, when we are 12 pages in).

To summarise; I have no problem with Charlie and TV having troops to help, they obviously want to be involved. If Charlie has 200 Archons committed to the battle, that's fine. What's ridiculous, and what makes it a Dues Ex Machina, is them turning up in the middle of the battlespace when logic to date tells us they can't, and winning the battle.

Someone made a remark about how it'd be boring if GK wins. I don't think it has to be. Some of the best comics have been ones where the main characters were ridiculously overpowered. I think you can tell a good story without having to be concerned with how powerful they are, as long as the writing and characters are strong. GK has been winning to date, and nobody seems to find the story dull. Nor does a tough fight (or loss) for GK have to be told badly... it just seems that's the way it's headed.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby Sonic Screwdriver » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:24 am

I agree that most of your points are valid, PlotArmour, except for the alliance without the RCC's knowledge. Stanley explicitly doesn't know whether his own units (or even his allied gobwins) are alive or dead unless he physically/magically examines for a headcount. So I honestly don't see how it could be impossible, or even improbable, for an alliance to piggy back without other allied sides knowing.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby MonteCristo » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:53 am

PlotArmour wrote:I'm not suggesting Jillian suddenly becomes the servant of RCC2, no more than I expect Jillian can just disband Wanda's troops without her consent if they ally together. But being under the same alliance banner clearly creates some limits on you, in the sense you can no longer do everything you normally would, and the leader of the coalition is making alot of your decisions for you. Ansom consulted, but he certainly didn't before every decision, like when he declares they will end turn here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0007.html), without any consultation.

Once again... all you proved was power over turns... nothing more
Though one thing i'll throw out... Ansom told Jillian to avoid any engagements if she could... what does she do? she takes on anything she can find even if she could just fly by; disobeying orders from the RCC leader... Hell she did it again when she went hunting for the dwagons, she was already planning on disobeying ansom's oders and going to rescue him... Ansom does not have as much authority as you like to claim he does; the warlord's obey him and go with his decisions out of respect and to keep things organized (which jillian did not share), not because he had real power over them
It'll be strange if Jillian can do some of the things suggested without her leader's permission.

so far you have no made a convincing argument for why it would
I see nothing strange about her buying new units without the RCC leaders knowledge... just as Ansom could not tell instinctively that he was loosing siege units, the RCC leader would not instinctively know Jillian was adding units to her own forces... Jillian needs to send them her info... and again, a good alliance is based on mutual trust... you trust your allies to keep you up to date on their troop numbers; and your allies volunteer because they trust that you will use that knowledge to your mutual benefit... fact of the matter is though, Jillian does not trust Jetstone enough to give them up to date info.

Ossomer a few strips back, sitting on the dragon, observes they don't fly under veil. Of course, we don't know for sure if you can see through a veil within it, so we don't know if this is proof, it's just one of the many indicators I've noted.

That proves nothing
Esspecially since Wanda would have told him, had to tell jack to cast it, and that Ossy would be part of it... i do think he would know if he was under a veil
Furtharmore, his troops are not the same as allied troops
As for your lame eye roll, I agree that would be a bad plan, but only because I don't think Jillian can do some of the things people have suggested (like hide her unit stats, sneak in units disguised as Megas, have her own turn, etc). If she can do those things, why not hide her in one of many other places? Hell, even right behind the city would be enough cover. In a cave near the city... behind a hill near the city.

Jillian's forces are only useful if they are in the garrison... anywhere else and they can be avoided
Even if she tried to ambush them outside the city, all the dwagons need to do is leave the hex and go around
It's not at all like you casting magic in your own hex on another turn, because none of the magic they let you cast alters the game mechanics. Thinkmancy sending messages isn't going to slant fights too much, nor does casting defensive magics in your own hex, while being attacked or otherwise. What does render the game mechanics useless is letting a caster make an entire army appear in the middle enemy territory, during their turn. Move doesn't let you move into other territory during their turn, so something completely violating that basically breaks the game and mechanics we've had ingrained as the underlying reality of the comic. If that happens, it'll be ridiculously lame as well. And you'd wonder "why didn't a side do this before? Why hasn't it been thought of?"

You're comparing it to thinkamancy message? seriously?
how about comparing it to dittomancy which can quadruple the number of arrows you fire, double bonus, special, and even duplicate surviving units?

Tell me, how useful is the ability to teleport a small army a few hexes on a normally? Sure the masterclass mancer can teleport a small army of archons, but she might be limited to only moving them a few hexes... how often would moving a small army only a few hexes be useful? Normally moving them so few spaces would be pretty useless as you might aswell wait for the next turn and move them normally... no the primary usefulness of teleporting comes from teleporting a few units over a very long distance, such as getting a chief warlord or a caster from one battlefield to another (if you can't set up a rely system)... only reason Jillian finds use in teleporting many units over a few hex's is because she was not able to bring them into the hex with her from the begining because she wanted to set up an unforeseeable ambush... really it's less like this is a broken mechanic and more like charlie and jillian are exploiting a normally useless ability (teleporting many troops over a very short distance)

and teleporting uses no move so it does not violate the rule... that's why its called teleporting... that is the very nature of the magic and i am certain other turn based games have had it.
Last edited by MonteCristo on Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby Casander » Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:17 am

Kaden wrote:Duncan doesn't need to know the plan to be confident. He truly believes in Jillian and her ability to be victorious because of the way that she defeated Jittari. He is as much a true believer in Jillian as the decrypted are in Wanda. Jillian didn't even have to use a tool to make such a wonderful impression.


Agreed. He knows his own side, and is therefore confident in victory. Sun Tzu had some sayings about that. But there are lots of people who are impressed with the strength and determination of their own side, who nonetheless get disappointed when they run into someone capable from another side. Duncan hasn't encountered people of the caliber of Jillian, Wanda, Parson and other lights such as Anson, Stanley and Sizemore. If you had Parson on your side, you might be very doubtful about the possibility of losing as well. If you had Anson on your side, in RCC1, you might think it inconceivable that your side would lose back then.

Duncan, with his use of the Datemancy item, is far closer to understanding Thinkmancy in general, and psych warfare, than a confused exRoyalist fanatic.

Duncan's perspective is also off. Jillian has a record of getting what she sets out to get, but with her parley with Wanda, part of her goal is to get back with Wanda, and/or Anson, and that goal is more important to her than saving Jetstone.

I suspect that Wanda will choose the Very, Very hard way. I also think that her contingency plan of withdrawing if the air assault will need to come into play. My bet is Jetstone falls, but Wanda is unable to occupy it, and doesn't kill Jillian. GK gets a costly win, with major forces still in the field against it.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:48 am

atalex wrote:I don't know whether Jillian is going to pull a squadron of Archons out of her hat at a dramatic moment, but I have to ask: How much foreshadowing do you need before you will accept an unforeseen plot twist as not being a Deus Ex Machina?


Eh. All this talk of whether a massive Archon army was foreshadowed or not is, for me, beside the point. It's not the (lack of) foreshadowing that would make such a development a bit disappointing.

That's why I'd call these things "Rescued by the Cavalry" moments: the protagonists get out of a sticky situation through the timely intervention of an outside force, and not through their own resourcefulness.

Note however that if in this case the Archons are hatted in, from their hiding place 2 hexes away, that could actually be rather clever imo ... as long as one or two or such are hatted in, not 200. That would, indeed, be lame.

A), because it makes the battle a simple numbers game. And while that is true of most battles in reality, I'm not reading this for realism.

B), because it would be game breaking. Teleporting a large army two, or even one, hexes away, while a fortification is one hex wide, makes defenses useless. Also, it makes assassination strikes way too easy. Unless everyone has easy access to mass-teleportation, it would be horribly biased in favour of those that have it.

In any case, what MonteCristo said, that teleporting several (many) units a couple of hexes away is a useless ability is wrong. There's no end to what you can do with this thing; you can bypass defensive formations a-la Jetstone's bridge guard with ease, for example.

PS: this reminds me of the Heroes series, and it's truly powerful Dimension Door and Town Portal spells. First one teleported one hero anywhere across a screen, while the second, if the hero was an expert at that school of magic, to an allied town of choice. Hugely powerful, they really spoiled the game once you got a hold of them.

Normally (I mean, in most cases)*, strategy and tactics have the role to compensate for the lag in your army's reaction to threats. That's why you need to plan ahead- where can the enemy plausibly attack now? Where can't they easily bring reinforcements to defend?

Once you have teleportation, the reaction time of your army to outside changes is close to 0, so most planning becomes superfluous.

EDIT:
*: no, that's still not right; I mean "a big chunk of strategy and tactics is concerned with compensating for reaction time".
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby Raza » Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:44 am

Lamech wrote:
As the whole side will disband your extra warlords and 1 caster would all turn babarian inside the city. I doubt they have 12 warlords in the city. We now know the apporximate strength of Transilvito and Jetstone, someone want to compare?
Hmm... it appears that Jetstone has four casters and 48 warlords, compared to translovito which has at least 2 casters and 19 warlords. Before the "cave in" 26 warlords. I'm guessing ben is a moneymancer. So translovito is about... half the strength of Jetstone. Of course they basically have control of FAQ, so we should probably add another caster or two in and Jillian's forces. (And she should get more soon anyway.) Also the translovito forces can fly so they have increased moblity. So I say they are equalish. I'm guessing since Jetstone attacked Hagar and the prince thought it was time to attack they're equal with Hagar.

If Ben is a moneymancer (good catch) then they have three, since they're assumed to have a dollamancer as well.

DoctorJest wrote:
Raza wrote:I also still don't like the idea that one needs to name royal heirs. We've seen too much talk of popping them as such, and no non-heir royals being popped.


Stanley was named as Heir and wasn't royal or popped as such, indicating that Heirs are indeed named.

Naw, that comic was very specific about the 'naming a heir designate' being a rare thing. A blog by parson expands on this as an alternate means to succession, as opposed to royal succession being the common standard.

Presumably it's like popping vs promoting warlords, except that popping a heir might be exclusive to royal sides. Might be, cause if it is then designating them couldn't be that rare.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby Ansan Gotti » Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:47 am

Raza wrote:Presumably it's like popping vs promoting warlords, except that popping a heir might be exclusive to royal sides. Might be, cause if it is then designating them couldn't be that rare.


This is a total aside, but I really want to see more Vurp. I'd actually love to see him promoted to Warlord (assuming that's possible for natural allies). If there were a Vurp fan club, I'd be a member.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby build6 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:54 am

Ansan Gotti wrote:This is a total aside, but I really want to see more Vurp. I'd actually love to see him promoted to Warlord (assuming that's possible for natural allies). If there were a Vurp fan club, I'd be a member.


heh, me too! Vurp is adorable

But I wouldn't want Vurp to show up just to get croaked, though.

Anyways, man, this is totally a "teaser" text update - cannot wait for the next installment to find out what happens!
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby Sinrus » Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:57 am

build6 wrote:
Ansan Gotti wrote:This is a total aside, but I really want to see more Vurp. I'd actually love to see him promoted to Warlord (assuming that's possible for natural allies). If there were a Vurp fan club, I'd be a member.


heh, me too! Vurp is adorable

But I wouldn't want Vurp to show up just to get croaked, though.

Anyways, man, this is totally a "teaser" text update - cannot wait for the next installment to find out what happens!


I wouldn't worry about it, Vurp is safely out of the way in Gobwin Knob. Of course, he's a pretty big redshirt too.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby BCCroaker » Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:16 pm

It must have been mentioned before, but where are the low level casters? Maggie is very able, Sizemore is an MK super star, Jack is masterclass and Wanda is a force of nature. Other casters we see seem to be of similar capabilities. All sides generally keep their casters away from danger (until Parson changed the rules) so there isn't much wastage. So where are the level ones?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby MonteCristo » Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:38 pm

BCCroaker wrote:It must have been mentioned before, but where are the low level casters? Maggie is very able, Sizemore is an MK super star, Jack is masterclass and Wanda is a force of nature. Other casters we see seem to be of similar capabilities. All sides generally keep their casters away from danger (until Parson changed the rules) so there isn't much wastage. So where are the level ones?

Well the thing is, you have to take into account that all the sides we have seen have been old sides.
a side normally gets the first caster within their frist batch of warlords; after that they probably have a really low chance of getting other casters, but the more casters you have the lower those chances... or hell maybe it's the case that you only can get a new caster when a new ruler takes over... not sure
Faq is the first time we have seen a new side, but they have not popped a caster.
In any case, all the casters we have see up till now have been old, around for hundreds of turns; they had been around for many turns and as such has had plenty of time to level up. The low lelvel caster would be much younger, freshly popped

Furtharmore, there is likely other ways for casters to level rather than partake in combat... Sizemore seems to be extremely inexpeienced with fighting and croaking and seems to hint at there are other ways to level... so the reason we have yet to see any low level caster is because we have yet to see any young casters
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby SuperDuperHai2U » Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:53 pm

I still feel the best thing to do would have been to get stanley right to the frontline immediately at the start. none of this would have been needed. charlie would never have suspected stanley to come out himself.

ofcourse we don't know if he got any ambush planned. but to be honest, stanley can handle himself really, especially if parson use his bracers for some good calcs.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby Sinrus » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:21 pm

It would also keep him semi-sane
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby Xorbon » Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:37 pm

I love how "serene" Duncan is since leaving the coffee-guzzling side of Jitterati. :D

I think there's one thing that will keep Wanda from leaving Gobwin Knob, and joining FAQ: Parson. She's strongly hinted before that Parson has a large role to play in the fate of Erf, and she wants to be on the side of fate.

I have very little idea of what will happen next, but I don't think Wanda will leave Stanley, since that would mean leaving Parson as well.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby Ninjaguineapig » Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:55 pm

Duncan's bluffing, right? He admitted to himself that FAQ would be overwhelmed if Wanda attacked. He must be trying to shake Ossomer. About Oss, I don't think he's an idiot, his mind is just focused at what he's supposed to do. He's probably a very competent tactician, he lacks people skills and possibly his fair share of common sense. But he wouldn't really need a good amount of charisma, since he's a Warlord. Extraordinary social skills in a warlord are IMO an exception, not a rule.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 012

Postby gazes_also » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:42 pm

A bit off topic, but has anyone considered what might happen if Wanda gets croaked?
As a Croakamancer and bearer of the Archenpliers, could she auto-decrypt and become something ever scarier?

To unrelated quotes come to mind; "Strike me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" and "I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds"

Just throwing it out there.
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