Book 2 – Page 20

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Book 2 – Page 20

Postby balder » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:01 am

New One is up.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby Godsire » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:08 am

Fight already!

I wanna see tiny Slately fall.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby Scipion » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:20 am

Ooooh, I like where this is going. That is an amazing way to have Jill turn without turning.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby Cyanshine » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:22 am

Oh, wow! So Wanda will probably turn to Faq ?! What will then happen to all of the Decrypted units she has strewn everywhere? How will Stanley take it and how will it affect Parson? Do they let the Jetstone armies disband or do they capture it? Argh, can't wait for the next one!!!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby Undead Prince » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:22 am

Wanda's just explained how she shouldn't, won't and doesn't need to betray Stanley for FAQ. And yet, merely a couple of panels later, she makes the promise to turn, Jillian seems to accept it, and Wanda seems to believe Jillian's acceptance (what with the victory smirk on her face). Wanda notes that Stanley has only a dim awareness of the Arkentool destiny; he definitely doesn't brim over with trust towards Wanda, as we know from previous installments. In these circumstances, Wanda's turning would definitely seem like a betrayal to Stanley, making an enemy of him, and therefore a major step back in Wanda's unification plans; yet, again, Wanda makes the proposal which Jillian accepts, and Wanda believes the acceptance. It does not add up.

IMHO, Jill's after Ansom and revenge first, with Wanda only second; now that Wanda didn't go the "easy way", i.e. turning immediately, Jill will show her the "hard way". Again, it all comes back full circle to Wanda being overconfident and Jillian betraying her misplaced trust.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:26 am

So ... I wonder what Jillian could tell Wanda that may have swayed her. It's not Charlie's support- GK distrusts Charlie and while they'll attack him/her/it/them last, they WILL do so. Charlie cares not for Fate.

It's not an Arkentool that Jillian happened to attune to off-screen; a) that would be weird and b) she wouldn't have needed any preparation "Here, I'm an attuned wielder too and if their Fate is to be brought together so be it. Now join me".

But really, attunement to an Arkentool is the only carrot that Wanda seems responsive to.

Then there's the order to the caster. Jillian says she'll order Vanna into the Magic Kingdom. Of course, being me, I suspect the order will be different. Maybe now that part of forcing end-of-turn by Turnamancer/affecting turn order by Turnamancer comes in, that's been speculated in the previous thread, so that Charlie's far away archons can lend a hand. Or something of the kind.

Just ordering Vanna into the Magic Kingdom seems wrong. For one, I still don't think Jillian is that indifferent to Spacerock. For two, it would be too easy on GK and lacks the disarray predicted. For three, it will result in Tremennis disbandment most likely, and while YAY, that's not happenin'. For fourth, Vanna won't be too happy about that, and I wonder in this case who her Duty/Loyalty goes to. She'll follow Jillian's order whether she likes it or not, that's Duty, if Duty is to Jillian. But seeing as how Vanna was more or less aquired as a mercenary paid for by Charlie, and ordered by her previous Queen to not aid Toolists ... it's iffy.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby Azukar » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:28 am

I have to say, the artist is absolutely a-mazing at facial expressions. Love it :D
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:30 am

Undead Prince wrote:Wanda's just explained how she shouldn't, won't and doesn't need to betray Stanley for FAQ. {snip: and yet a few panels later...}

IMHO, Jill's after Ansom and revenge first, with Wanda only second; now that Wanda didn't go the "easy way", i.e. turning immediately, Jill will show her the "hard way". Again, it all comes back full circle to Wanda being overconfident and Jillian betraying her misplaced trust.


Negotiations are weird like that, Jillian thought she was the carrot for Wanda, but it turned out to not quite be the case anymore. So she adapts, and Wanda's word in a promise isn't much. I think she just wants to check and see what Jillian has to offer.

But yeah, this looks too much like the "easy way".

It's so obvious you don't even need paranoia for it.

Azukar wrote:I have to say, the artist is absolutely a-mazing at facial expressions. Love it :D


Kudos to Xin.

I don't think she reads what us curmudgeons have to say over here in the forums, but every once in a while somebody comes up and complains about an aspect of the art. Lo and behold, it gets improved soon afterwards- in this case facial expressions.

Again, I doubt it's because she reads or cares about armchair critics, but yes, I think she is just starting at the serious comic artist thing. And she is improving rapidly at it. Kudos!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby Malanthyus » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:38 am

Wanda can betray Stanley yet remain loyal to her "fate whatever" because Jillian is allied with Charlescom, the "Last side we would attack". If Wanda turns to FAQ, she becomes automatically allied with Charlescomm, which will make it much, much easier to subjugate stanley. And to be honest, I think Jillian is more than willing to give up simply killing Stanley just so she can keep Wanda. This way, Wanda gets to have her cake, and eat her too.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:39 am

Ooooo, this this page is seven shades of very interesting. And some great art on display as well.

Charlie is safe, for now... and Wanda really has no idea where she, GK or any of it are going. Despite being higher up the pecking order she is reminding me a little of Wriggly right now. And poor old Stanley, dimly aware of his destiny...

I wonder what Jillian is going to tell her - that she has an Arkentool perhaps, discovered during her turns as a merc? And why can't she tell her there and then? Or maybe try and tell her that Jillian's relationship with Charlescomm could be an out from GK but an in with an arkentool...

I guess Wanda is covering her bases (or thinks she is) - still topple Jetstone, then talk. If Jillian is on the level she turns, if not she doesn't. Or she is lying, and just saying that to get Jillian to stand down for now, and thinks she can reason with Jillian later when she says she wont be turning.

And I suspect Jillian isn't going to tell her caster to go into the magic kingdom.

BLANDCorporatio wrote:So ... I wonder what Jillian could tell Wanda that may have swayed her. It's not Charlie's support- GK distrusts Charlie and while they'll attack him/her/it/them last, they WILL do so. Charlie cares not for Fate.


I was wondering how that should be read (from Wanda's perspective) - is she saying it is something they will do last (so literally the last side they would attack after everyone else is gone) or as in "that is the last thing I'd want to do", so never if she can help it?
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby Malanthyus » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:42 am

More than likely the most difficult thing to do. Charlie being the hardest nut to crack conquest wise. And addendum to my last post, the reason she wouldn't be betraying her fate, is because Charlie is an arkentool wielder.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby The Shadow » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:42 am

...

My brain just melted all over again!

I do not think Jillian is laying some secret plot here. It would just be so unlike her to make that appeal to Wanda, "You'd have to trust me. ...I know." and then really be planning to stab her in the back.

Also note that Wanda didn't actually promise to turn. She promised only to negotiate it - to listen to what Jillian has to say.

What does Jillian have to say? I dunno. Maybe, "I'm allied with Charlie, so you'll still be bringing the Tools together?" But I think Charlie would be a lot less than thrilled about that.

Or perhaps, "Charlie's taking GK and prying the Arkenhammer out of Stanley the Worm's cold dead fingers any second now?" That would fit with, "I can't tell you."

Thing is, it *can't* all be this simple, can it? Though Wanda turning would certainly cause disarray for both GK and the RCC. How Charlie will take all this, I just don't know.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:43 am

Malanthyus wrote:Wanda can betray Stanley yet remain loyal to her "fate whatever" because Jillian is allied with Charlescom, the "Last side we would attack". If Wanda turns to FAQ, she becomes automatically allied with Charlescomm, which will make it much, much easier to subjugate stanley. And to be honest, I think Jillian is more than willing to give up simply killing Stanley just so she can keep Wanda. This way, Wanda gets to have her cake, and eat her too.


The problem with that is, that Charlie cares not for this Tool Fate Business. Just regular Business, as far as we know so far. Sure, he/she/it/they would like to get their hands on as many Arkentools as possible, but that's probably more because they're powerful artifacts.

So ideologically, Wanda and Charlie don't mix.

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:I was wondering how that should be read (from Wanda's perspective) - is she saying it is something they will do last (so literally the last side they would attack after everyone else is gone) or as in "that is the last thing I'd want to do", so never if she can help it?


The second interpretation is more plausible. But you know I don't always go for plausible.

For dramatic reasons, Charlie will be fought against, directly. It's just too juicy of a battle to avoid if the story can help it. Also, there's the ideology issue. I don't think GK's Toolism, nor its Tool Fate thing, will go over well with Charlescomm.

So fight and conquer everyone, starve Charlie out as much as possible and then negociate. Negociations will fail so we'll get to see, three years from now, an attack on Charlescomm.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby Malanthyus » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:49 am

My point is that Wanda doesn't care about Toolism. At least not so far as the "New Mandate of the Titans" is concerned. All that matters to her, is that she must become attuned to a tool (which she's done) and bring together the remaining arkentools. Conquering the world was just a means to an end. With getting Jillian as a Bonus, as well as Charlies intelligence and unique resources, She'd be able to unite the arkentools that much quicker.

As far as Wanda and Charlie's ideologies differing, again, Charlie doesn't have to give a damn about fate or anything to align with what Wanda's after. He'd be happy to have the Arkentools on his side, one way or another. Being the next best thing to untouchable is good for business after all.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby Nows7 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:54 am

Malanthyus wrote:This way, Wanda gets to have her cake, and eat her too.


So horribly well said.


I'd give 100,000 smuckers to see Jill's face in that last panel.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:04 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Just ordering Vanna into the Magic Kingdom seems wrong. For one, I still don't think Jillian is that indifferent to Spacerock. For two, it would be too easy on GK and lacks the disarray predicted. For three, it will result in Tremennis disbandment most likely, and while YAY, that's not happenin'. For fourth, Vanna won't be too happy about that, and I wonder in this case who her Duty/Loyalty goes to. She'll follow Jillian's order whether she likes it or not, that's Duty, if Duty is to Jillian. But seeing as how Vanna was more or less aquired as a mercenary paid for by Charlie, and ordered by her previous Queen to not aid Toolists ... it's iffy.


Agreed, I think if Wanda gives Jillian the go ahead to speak to Vanna then it will come back to bite her, because Jillian isn't going to just tell her to pop back to the magic kingdom - and that would be if Slately even let her leave (Barbarian Queen, I can't help but notice you ordering your caster away after your long chat with the enemy... do explain.).

Although I think Jillian and Charlie could potentially be willing to loose Jetstone if it means stopping GK. It wouldn't be indifference, but if they had a plan a bit like Haggar (let GK's weaken itself getting rid of Jetstone, then then come in and clean up the mess) they would do it. Kind of are they there to save Jetstone, or stop GK.

The second interpretation is more plausible. But you know I don't always go for plausible.

For dramatic reasons, Charlie will be fought against, directly. It's just too juicy of a battle to avoid if the story can help it. Also, there's the ideology issue. I don't think GK's Toolism, nor its Tool Fate thing, will go over well with Charlescomm.


I agree, I think in time GK and Charlescomm lock horns directly, I guess it just depends on what leads to it. Of course Wanda is fairly confident on the point, yet she still has a big, old loose canon in the form of Stanley. I wonder how Wanda would react if he wanted to go after Charlie sooner?

Malanthyus wrote:My point is that Wanda doesn't care about Toolism. At least not so far as the "New Mandate of the Titans" is concerned.


That does seem to be true. And so we have three individuals attuned to tools, and none of them seem to view the significance of attunement in quite the same way (and there is a big difference in views between Charlie and Stanley/Wanda).
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby Romanosuke » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:10 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote:
Kudos to Xin.

I don't think she reads what us curmudgeons have to say over here in the forums, but every once in a while somebody comes up and complains about an aspect of the art. Lo and behold, it gets improved soon afterwards- in this case facial expressions.

Again, I doubt it's because she reads or cares about armchair critics, but yes, I think she is just starting at the serious comic artist thing. And she is improving rapidly at it. Kudos!


According to The Xin appreciation thread!, Xin does read what is said in these forums to look out for comments on her art according to what she said here in this post :) .
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby Glenn » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:36 am

How would Stanley react if Wanda joined Faq, and then Jillian and Wanda immediately offered Stanley an alliance with Faq? Obviously Stanley would be unhappy about losing control over Wanda and the decrypted army, but Parson would almost certainly advise him to accept the alliance. Wanda would probably consider it a step towards her destiny if the side she was on (Faq) were allied with both Charlie and Stanley.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby oslecamo2 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:13 am

Sooo, am I the only one thinking that Wanda is just lying with all the teeths on her mouth to get Jillian out of the way?

Jillian: If you turn to me everything will be allright!
Wanda: I promise we'll talk about it.
Jillian:Hmm, well, ok, I'll get out of the way then...
Wanda:Hehe, SUCKER!

Of course, Jillian really isn't going to send her caster into the magical kingdom. More like she's finally springing whatever trap she had prepared.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 20

Postby joosy » Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:20 am

and.. if we bring all of the ArkenTools together, you can make a wish! .. no wait. you can then start building hotels and charge more schmuckers to anyone who happens to land on them.. no no... with their powers combined, I am Captain Erf!.. naw, doesn't have that ring to it. The 'bringing the Arkentools together' goal is just the MacGuffin for our destined 'tagonists (pro and an) and I am enjoying their journey so far.

Perhaps my understanding is not correct, but I thought that commanders could understand the will of their overlord remotely (Natural Thinkamancy as explained by Maggie) but perhaps that is only for simple commands, not explicit ones like 'go into the Magic Kingdom. My money is that Jillian going to see the caster is just a ruse to spring a trap or to try to use the Turnamancer to cast a spell on Wanda. (quid pro quo, I would say). Note that even if Wanda does turn (willingly or otherwise) she will not try to croak Stanley but Charlie may make that play.

I still harbor the theory that the missing gobwins and Vurp's fib are part of an as yet unspoken desire for natural allies to rule themselves and to have their own city rather than to be cannon fodder for whomever they ally with. Gobwin Knob isn't called that just for the ambiance.. perhaps they view it as theirs and look upon the Plaid tribe as usurpers? We will see.
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