Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby DoctorJest » Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:37 pm

Pax wrote: Not at all; the logic you called flawed, is in fact perfect - you're just not realising the fourth, implicit component:
(a) [FACT] There are four known arkentools.
(b) [FACT] Parson is not (yet) known, nor even suspected by Erflings, to be an Arkentool.
(c) [CONCLUSION] Therefor, Parson cannot be the fourth known Arkentool.
(d) [CAVEAT] None of this precludes his turning out ot be the fifth, ninth, or two-hundred-and-eleventh Arkentool at a future date.


None of that precludes his turning into a My Little Pony Statuette at a later date, either, but that doesn't make it any more likely that he will.
Last edited by DoctorJest on Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DoctorJest
 
Posts: 309
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:57 pm

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby DoctorJest » Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:38 pm

raphfrk wrote:
Welf von Ehrwald wrote:A turnamancer could turn a whole capured garrison in one turn with 1/10 of the original loyalty, or one unit in 5 turns to full loyalty.


It might even be possible to end up with a unit that has higher loyalty than originally. Duncan seems to have very high loyalty to Jillian.


She could have earned a good portion of that loyalty, however.
DoctorJest
 
Posts: 309
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:57 pm

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby Key Lime Pie » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:54 pm

She raised her hand, palm up, and brought her fingertips together.

That, to me, looks like an Italian/ Maffiosi gesture, see the picture underneath. That would indicate it isn't Charlie, but Don King.
Key Lime Pie
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby robak » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:07 pm

DoctorJest wrote:She could have earned a good portion of that loyalty, however.

Or it was because the turnamancer was linked to a arkentool-class thinkamancer.
robak
 
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:31 am

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby Dr Pepper » Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:12 pm

Key Lime Pie wrote:
She raised her hand, palm up, and brought her fingertips together.

That, to me, looks like an Italian/ Maffiosi gesture, see the picture underneath. That would indicate it isn't Charlie, but Don King.


I thought of that, but i'm sure Slately would know Don's voice.
Read, like there won't be a movie
Game, like the die rolls don't matter
Filk, like everyone is tone deaf anyway

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .4
User avatar
Dr Pepper
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:41 pm
Location: santa maria, ca

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby Mose » Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:12 pm

I was just enjoying the past comics, three particular stood out.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F130.jpg

Charlie is pretty smart. "We prefer to play games that don't even contain a losing outcome."

Yea, Parson nailed Ansom, but Charlie saw it coming. "And where will you really be?" It is like he just wanted to see what would happen, knowing the real Parson would not be there.

Charlie has a plan here in this present link-up.


http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2009-archive/?px=%2FE022_CThayerDonnelly_ParsonEyebook.png

Charlie learned.

CharlsNChrg: Well, I imagine it must have been a three-caster link.
CharlsNChrg: Croakamancer applied motion/matter principles through the Dirtamancer, but to animate terrain instead of bodies.


What Charlie learns, he can apply. He certainly can use information like this better than anyone else. He fully understands the laws of Erfworld or, at least, better than Parson. He can take an idea Parson developed and expanded on it. He has the resources to do so.

http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2009-archive/?px=%2FE026_Onezumi_Parson.jpg

According to Maggie, a two-caster linkup was a less risky and drastic thing than three, especially when done voluntarily. In it, the Thinkamancer's function was something like "cognitive copilot," managing the other caster's mental functions, focusing his attention and boosting his energy to achieve better results than the caster could alone.


Charlie has the Arkendish. I wonder how much it could "focus one's or a caster's attention and boosting his energy..". Add a tri-link to that, Charlie's knowledge of magic, he resources to such magics and who knows what can happen next.
Mose
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:54 pm

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:45 pm

Mose wrote:Charlie has the Arkendish. I wonder how much it could "focus one's or a caster's attention and boosting his energy..". Add a tri-link to that, Charlie's knowledge of magic, he resources to such magics and who knows what can happen next.


You know, that's exactly the problem with speculation sometimes. Because if we start convincing ourselves that Charlie could really pull anything off, then the story is gone. Charlie uses the Arkendish to create a never-thought-possible five caster link: Thinka-Turna-Shocka-Hatta-Predictamancer. It insta-kills Wanda and all the decrypted, teleports the Hammer from Stanley's grasp, forces through Fate Magic some other character (like say Charlie) to attune to the Arkenpliers and Arkenhammer, sends a shock-wave into the magma under GK that makes it jump up in stationary waves* and fry everyone in there, resurrects Unaroyal, makes everyone forget they ever lost the battle for GK, and all is back to normal with Charlie pretending to do business as usual.

The End.

So of course, that won't happen.

Forcing Wanda to turn by mancy is less of an exaggeration, but in my opinion not by much. Turning so far required the effort or croaking or capturing a unit, and if somehow Charlie could just turn Wanda, even if that required a linked-up Turnamancer, that would just be too easy. And really, several other characters have been turned already; I think the allegiance-reprogramming thing has been done enough in this story for now, and whatever happens will be more new and unexpected.

*:they'd have to make sure to vary the location of the nodes/maxima for optimal and uniform toasting :ugeek:
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
User avatar
BLANDCorporatio
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
 
Posts: 3446
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:24 am

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby splintermute » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:40 pm

I have a strong feeling that if this actually is a link, it's only a 2-way link. 2-way links appear to be safe and easy, especially if done voluntarily. 3-way links are dangerous, even in conventional physical proximity link-ups without the added complexity of a long distance connection - there's a risk of psychic backlash or death, and you seem to need skilled thinkamancers outside of the link to unravel it safely. I don't think Charlie would want to put himself into a situation in which he may be vulnerable or dependent on external thinkamancers.

Admittedly, he could try to neutralize all the damage and/or pull a Maggie and try to extricate himself by deflecting all the damage to the other two casters, but a) he might not be able to successfully protect himself (unlikely, assuming he's the most powerful Thinkamancer on Erf - actually, all this time I've only been thinking of him as Charlie from Charlie's Angels, and overlooking the obvious Charles Xavier reference), or b) he might not be able to successfully protect the other two casters - if he deliberately damages them to protect himself, I'm sure his standing in the Magic Kingdom would decline significantly.
splintermute
 
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:53 am

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby Oberon » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:08 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:You know, that's exactly the problem with speculation sometimes. Because if we start convincing ourselves that Charlie could really pull anything off, then the story is gone. Charlie uses the Arkendish to create a never-thought-possible five caster link: Thinka-Turna-Shocka-Hatta-Predictamancer.
The real problem is, this has happened over and over again. It is my single greatest criticism of the comic. Charlie and/or the Archons have always had the power needed at the time. And we don't even need to conceive of never-thought-possible five caster links to notice this happening.

Look what we have seen in the prior comic update:
A single, lone caster. By all appearances a member of a caster link with Charlie and possibly another caster or casters.
Impossible? Not for Charlie. All we had been told previously was that Charlie could extend some of his abilities to his personal Archons in his tower. This is a nice enough ability, and may be the source of the "operator" who Maggie put Parson in touch with. But it's a far cry from "link with other casters across vast distances." It is a multiplication in both scale (near to far) and potency ("extend abilities to Archons" to "link with caster(s)"). Multiply multiple aspects of a power and it becomes a quadratic rather than linear increase.

This follows a raft of other "Hey, wouldn't it be great if Charlie/Archons could?" type events. Charlie can already "handle an unlimited number of Thinkagrams", so why does he need to reveal his ability to snoop in on the Eyebook chatter? If you could tap the text messages of your rivals, why would you ever reveal this? Especially when you could place a cell phone call to them anytime you wanted to speak with them, and you have an unlimited minutes plan? Why? Because it's cool, apparently. Cool, but not logical nor in character. Charlie doesn't ever give away information, remember? When he tries people don't believe him. And so freely revealing his ability to hack the Eyebooks is somewhat suspect, and is not logical upon examination. Not logical because he has a free alternative means to communicate with Parson, and not logical because revealing this ability leads to your opponents ceasing to provide you with juicy intelligence as you listen in unnoticed. Think about it for a while.
BLANDCorporatio wrote:I think the allegiance-reprogramming thing has been done enough in this story for now, and whatever happens will be more new and unexpected.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm afraid of. I don't mind surprises in a story, but the constant addition of potent abilities to a single character in a story is never a good thing. There is not much verisimilitude in an Erf not ruled by Charlescomm if he is always shown to have the ability needed to advance the plot.
How using capslock wins arguments:
Zeroberon wrote:So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.
Oberon
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:59 am

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby ftl » Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:19 am

You know, there's always the chance that Charlie *can't* eavesdrop on eyebooks...

If I remember correctly, Charlie never acted like he had knowledge of any information that had been passed around on eyebooks. He simply had the ability to initiate a conversation with Parson. It may very well be that his "hack" ability is no more useful than having an eyebook of his own -= he can start conversations, but can't necessarily listen to the conversations of others.

Nobody really knows, of course, and Parson is acting cautiously just to be safe.

(Or am I wrong and did we get more direct confirmation of eavesdropping?)
ftl
Erfabet Supporter!
Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 1069
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:15 pm

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby Sonic Screwdriver » Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:23 am

Because of the tactical advantage in being able to spy on Eyebooks, and the foolishness of revealing that, I'm fairly certain Charlie can't eavesdrop on them and only creates a chat window like everyone else. But Parson doesn't know for certain, so the Eyebooks aren't used where they would be really useful, purely out of paranoia; which was an excellent thing Charlie did, even if unintentional.

We've been told that the ArkenDish gives untold mastery of Thinkamancy, which means anything Thinkamancy has been shown to do turned up to max. So far, Thinkamancy has been shown to be able to do the following: phonecalls, caster fusions, energy drinks, hypnosis, & hadoukens. We've also been shown that the ArkenPliers give untold mastery of Croakamancy, & Croakamancy has been shown to be able to do the following: animate the dead...and that's it. In all honesty, extending abilities onto the Archons is a completely new power and is more out-of-sync than a long-range link.

I do not doubt that a four caster link is possible by Charlie, just as I do not doubt that a two-caster link can be done at range, as neither are out of scale with the upgrade we've seen to Croakamancy; Thinkamancy just happens to do so much more than Croakamancy. Because of the union of minds and partial loss of individuality, I bet Charlie is loathe to perform a link with any caster; and it's a certainty that any links he makes will have ALL of the backlash go on the other casters. I'm fairly certain Charlie is maintaining a small level of independence to keep Vanna out of some parts of his mind (what with smacking Slately), which I bet strains the link just as the distance should, so I'm also fairly certain that once the link is broken Vanna's head will pop like a grape.
User avatar
Sonic Screwdriver
I am a Tool!
I am a Tool!
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby fjolnir » Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:42 am

The big issue is we don't know how long charlescomm has been active in erf, we know he can do one archon a turn or 3 every 2 turns with a turnamancer, we can assume that he probably has been around at least ~500 turns as an attuned wielder of the dish given the archon, count we have for charlescomm post BfGK, depending on how long he's been a powerhouse merc in the world he might not have fully plunged the depths of his powerful item, remember that stanley didn't know about the nuts to pigeon thing until the events of the battle, wanda certainly doesn't know the extent of the pliers power, perhaps it's the same with charley and the dish...
User avatar
fjolnir
 
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 1:40 am

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:04 am

fjolnir wrote:The big issue is we don't know how long charlescomm has been active in erf, we know he can do one archon a turn or 3 every 2 turns with a turnamancer, we can assume that he probably has been around at least ~500 turns as an attuned wielder of the dish given the archon, count we have for charlescomm post BfGK, depending on how long he's been a powerhouse merc in the world he might not have fully plunged the depths of his powerful item, remember that stanley didn't know about the nuts to pigeon thing until the events of the battle, wanda certainly doesn't know the extent of the pliers power, perhaps it's the same with charley and the dish...


I think Charlie would have studied the dish and its applications fairly well before really getting going, he/she/it just strikes me as that kind of individual. Stanley on the other hand doesn't seem to have been so studious in learning about what the hammer can do and is only just know learning some of the subtler abilities (well, turning nuts into pigeons seems subtle to me).

The pliers... are strange. Wanda seemed to know almost automatically about the decryption function, and they haven't been shown to do anything else yet (presumably they still are still a super effective weapon against uncroaked).

Key Lime Pie wrote:That, to me, looks like an Italian/ Maffiosi gesture, see the picture underneath. That would indicate it isn't Charlie, but Don King.


I'm kind of curious about what the significant spell bonus the tower affords to a caster (or the Turnamancer at least) is - has it ever come up in previous pages that towers do that?

the_tick_rules wrote:If I recall correctly, and I believe I am, it was said loyalty amongst captured units is notoriously low. So they only take the chance on very valuable units like casters. The rest probably get disbanded by their new ruler or something. Turnamancers work, but since we only know of one they are to rare and would take way too long to turn entire armies of thousands of units.
If I recall correctly, and I believe I am, it was said loyalty amongst captured units is notoriously low. So they only take the chance on very valuable units like casters. The rest probably get disbanded by their new ruler or something. Turnamancers work, but since we only know of one they are to rare and would take way too long to turn entire armies of thousands of units.


Caesar ended up with something like 200 infantry units when he captured that city back from Carpool, I've always wondered what happened to them.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
User avatar
Dancing Cthulhu
 
Posts: 432
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:49 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby Oberon » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:23 am

Sonic Screwdriver wrote:We've been told that the ArkenDish gives untold mastery of Thinkamancy, which means anything Thinkamancy has been shown to do turned up to max. So far, Thinkamancy has been shown to be able to do the following: phonecalls, caster fusions, energy drinks, hypnosis, & hadoukens.
Also, domination (the scroll on Jillian. This may be what you were calling hypnosis), messing with loyalty, spotting spells on others, breaking spells on others via a pep-talk, leading dance fights via a DDR, interfering with or disrupting others who are leading dance fights via a DDR, and spotting veils. It's late and I'm tired, I may have missed a good handful.
Sonic Screwdriver wrote:In all honesty, extending abilities onto the Archons is a completely new power and is more out-of-sync than a long-range link.
It's not really new, only that it was mentioned in a long past Summer Update and never shown in a comic. A "long range link", however, no matter your take on how in- or "out-of-sync" it is with Thinkamancy in general, is a completely new power.
Sonic Screwdriver wrote:I'm fairly certain Charlie is maintaining a small level of independence to keep Vanna out of some parts of his mind (what with smacking Slately), which I bet strains the link just as the distance should, so I'm also fairly certain that once the link is broken Vanna's head will pop like a grape.
If you are correct, this will be yet another special ability Charlie will be displaying. Casters in a link with other casters lose their individuality, and become their function. More so in a tri-caster link, to the point where speaking to them as individuals can kill them, as Slately trying to engage Vanna in conversation threatened to do. If Charlie is in a tri-caster link with Vanna and another caster, and displays individuality and independence beyond operating as his function, then this is another special case for Charlie. And Charlie taking the initiative to speak to Slately with a dose of anti-ephedrine to punctuate his "request" that Slately leave off trying to speak to Vanna is already making this appear to be the case.
ftl wrote:You know, there's always the chance that Charlie *can't* eavesdrop on eyebooks...
You have a point. We do not know for certain that Charlie can eavesdrop on Eyebook chat. And by revealing that he might it would (and did) cause the GK side to re-think their use of Eyebooks, and would reduce their communications effectiveness.

But, we can look at the circumstances to put some context on the situation. At the point where Charlie revealed his capability to chat with Parson via the Eyebooks, Charlie was firmly of the mind that GK was going to fall. Not only that, but that GK was going to fall, and Charlie was going to be able to grab the bracer and perhaps Parson. Only the potential of adding the Arkenpliers to that loot list stayed Charlie's hand, and that turned out to be his undoing.

So I don't buy it. I don't buy that Charlie was messing with Parson and the GK side to reduce their comms efficiency, when at the time he did so everyone on the GK side was in GK. There was no real need for the Eyebooks, other than to perhaps save Maggy a little juice. Disrupt the long range comms capability of a side which is a credible rival? Absolutely. Disrupt a minor convenience to a side you are certain is doomed at the hands of your fleet of Archons or your allies? Not so brilliant. And to do so to a side you know is going to fall, either to you or to your allies, just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Again, if Charlie wanted to chat with Parson, he has been described in the story as being capable of doing so at any time via his Thinkamancy. The use of the Eyebooks for that same purpose and to cause doubt about the security of the Eyebooks just doesn't fly, given the situation. It was cool, and that's about all that it has going for it. But that's how Charlie has been portrayed, he gets a lot of cool powers, and usually whenever it is needed to advance the plot.
How using capslock wins arguments:
Zeroberon wrote:So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.
Oberon
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:59 am

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby splintermute » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:08 am

Oberon wrote:
Sonic Screwdriver wrote:We've been told that the ArkenDish gives untold mastery of Thinkamancy, which means anything Thinkamancy has been shown to do turned up to max. So far, Thinkamancy has been shown to be able to do the following: phonecalls, caster fusions, energy drinks, hypnosis, & hadoukens.
Also, domination (the scroll on Jillian. This may be what you were calling hypnosis), messing with loyalty, spotting spells on others, breaking spells on others via a pep-talk, leading dance fights via a DDR, interfering with or disrupting others who are leading dance fights via a DDR, and spotting veils. It's late and I'm tired, I may have missed a good handful.

"What was an Archon, really? A flying knight-class unit with a random special from the set of: dance fighting, leadership, and limited forms of Shockmancy, Thinkamancy, Dollamancy and Foolamancy. As Archons leveled, they could gain additional random specials from that set. There were four of them with the dance fighting, leadership and Foolamancy abilities at the Battle for Gobwin Knob, and these were able to lead the Coalition's dance fight. Charlescomm did not volunteer this strategy, but Ansom knew to ask." Disrupting dance fights was probably through Maggie's "hoboken," which I think was probably a focused version of the spell that causes headaches that Wanda mentioned to Parson. Spotting veils is likely part of the archons' natural foolamancy. The messing with loyalty (assuming you're talking about his influence on natural allies) may be thinkamancy, or may be something else entirely - perhaps thinkamancy augmented turnamancy - this might not be the first time he's linked to Vanna!

Oberon wrote:If you are correct, this will be yet another special ability Charlie will be displaying. Casters in a link with other casters lose their individuality, and become their function. More so in a tri-caster link, to the point where speaking to them as individuals can kill them, as Slately trying to engage Vanna in conversation threatened to do. If Charlie is in a tri-caster link with Vanna and another caster, and displays individuality and independence beyond operating as his function, then this is another special case for Charlie. And Charlie taking the initiative to speak to Slately with a dose of anti-ephedrine to punctuate his "request" that Slately leave off trying to speak to Vanna is already making this appear to be the case.

We don't know for certain this is a tri-caster link. Presumably casters in two-caster links lose less of their independence. And displaying independence in a tri-caster link is not unique to Charlie. Misty taught Parson the basics of Erf warfare while in a link, and was able to survive Parson calling her "Misty," although it's unclear if this contributed to her death or it was all due to Maggie's deflection. A thinkamancer as powerful as Charlie would likely be able to maintain more of his independence, but his primary purpose, as indicated here, would be to preserve the integrity of the link.

Oberon wrote:But, we can look at the circumstances to put some context on the situation. At the point where Charlie revealed his capability to chat with Parson via the Eyebooks, Charlie was firmly of the mind that GK was going to fall. Not only that, but that GK was going to fall, and Charlie was going to be able to grab the bracer and perhaps Parson. Only the potential of adding the Arkenpliers to that loot list stayed Charlie's hand, and that turned out to be his undoing.

So I don't buy it. I don't buy that Charlie was messing with Parson and the GK side to reduce their comms efficiency, when at the time he did so everyone on the GK side was in GK. There was no real need for the Eyebooks, other than to perhaps save Maggy a little juice. Disrupt the long range comms capability of a side which is a credible rival? Absolutely. Disrupt a minor convenience to a side you are certain is doomed at the hands of your fleet of Archons or your allies? Not so brilliant. And to do so to a side you know is going to fall, either to you or to your allies, just doesn't make a lot of sense.

When he first contacted Parson via the eyebooks, Stanley had just fled, and Maggie's juice was taxed to the limits. Shutting off this line of communication was brilliant. It forced Stanley to resort to thinkamancy rather than further eyebook communication. Stanley's prior resort to thinkamancy had already demonstrated rather dramatic effects during Parson's teleconference with the RCC I leaders.

And of course Charlie has a lot of cool powers whenever it's needed to advance the plot - that was his sole function in Book 1. If Erfworld paralleled the game Parson was contemplating, Charlescomm represented the GM force that cheated the players and undermined everything they tried to prevent them from winning within the rules, until the players found a clever enough way to break the rules and win. That ability to cheat Erfworld may be Charlie's, or it may be a function of the Arkendish, or all the Arkentools. Charlie's reprising that role here, but this time Parson presumably has more game-breaking tools of his own.
splintermute
 
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:53 am

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby Pax » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:36 am

JustDoug wrote:I'm tempted to reply, "why didn't you say that in the first place?" but I'll just include it with the rest. :)

Actually, I'm not the person who made the post you called "flawed logic"; that would be Dahak.





DoctorJest wrote:
Pax wrote: Not at all; the logic you called flawed, is in fact perfect - you're just not realising the fourth, implicit component:
(a) [FACT] There are four known arkentools.
(b) [FACT] Parson is not (yet) known, nor even suspected by Erflings, to be an Arkentool.
(c) [CONCLUSION] Therefor, Parson cannot be the fourth known Arkentool.
(d) [CAVEAT] None of this precludes his turning out ot be the fifth, ninth, or two-hundred-and-eleventh Arkentool at a future date.


None of that precludes his turning into a My Little Pony Statuette at a later date, either, but that doesn't make it any more likely that he will.

Completely and utterly irrelevant. I never made, nor tried to make, any claim as to the probability that PArson would turn out to be an Arkentool. In fact, I find the idea extremely unlikely.
Image
User avatar
Pax
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:56 pm
Location: U.S. Northeast

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:55 am

Ya know, what Oberon is saying could be one of the reasons I dislike Charlie so much. Charlescomm always seems perfectly equipped for the situation at hand.

Now, in Book 1 this actually worked, somewhat; Parson, and we, were new to Erfworld. Plus, there was the whole "game cheating you" thing. Books 2 and 3 will tell a different story though, so we'll probably-hopefully not see extensions of Charlie's powers. I think we haven't such in this book yet, so there's no need to cry foul on the story; just on the occasional speculation that invests Charlescomm with too much ability.

Yes, I said we haven't seen extensions of Charlie's powers in Book 2. I may have missed a few, but I mean specifically the long distance link. Oberon and Lord Kasavin would disagree, but in my opinion the links so far relied on a lot of stuff (messages? info?) being passed between caster minds, like computers in a network. Make 'em close enough, it's almost like they're the same computer. Even at a longer distance, if you make the medium fast and reliable enough, it's almost as if they're in the same room. So it's not that out of the blue that some sort of long-distance linking is possible. Maybe it has some limitations too, we haven't actually seen it in action.

Incidentally, a four caster link will happen, precisely because it was announced as impossible at the beginning of the story. But not now, the timing is not right.

PS, for clarification:
Oberon wrote:
BLANDCorporatio wrote:I think the allegiance-reprogramming thing has been done enough in this story for now, and whatever happens will be more new and unexpected.


Yes, that's exactly what I'm afraid of. I don't mind surprises in a story, but the constant addition of potent abilities to a single character in a story is never a good thing. There is not much verisimilitude in an Erf not ruled by Charlescomm if he is always shown to have the ability needed to advance the plot.


What I meant there is not something that would require new abilities to be added to Charlie's list of skills. New and unexpected as in a clever use of resources and powers already known to be available; or for the most part, known to be available, that long distance link thing is controversial after all.
Last edited by BLANDCorporatio on Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
User avatar
BLANDCorporatio
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
 
Posts: 3446
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:24 am

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby robak » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:27 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Plus, there was the whole "game cheating you" thing.

In Erfworld, game cheats You!!
BLANDCorporatio wrote:Incidentally, a four caster link will happen, precisely because it was announced as impossible at the beginning of the story.

Plus, there are four known Arkentools. Of course they will be linked in the end to fulfill their fate.
robak
 
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:31 am

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:43 am

Look at Parson from Erfworld's perspective for a second:

Multi-hex dirtamancy trap
Warlords crossing entire spans of the map in a single turn
Cities generating 3 dwagons per turn

These are things that are not possible.

Now we see hints that Charlie may be doing something that is also not possible.

Erfworld is a 'real' world, not a game. We have no idea what limitations are 'real' limitations, and what are imposed or breakable.

In most fantasy stories, when a wizard does something cool, there's no suspension of disbelief - magic can do anything.
But because we're thinking of this as a computer game come-to-life, suddenly magic is bound by rules we're only guessing at?

It seems like Magic is currently described like old alchemy - the Four elements are replaced by Erf, Fate, Numbers, or Life / Motion / Matter. What happens when Erfworlders discover atomic theory?

The rules that the Erfworlders understand may not be the rules that are actually in place, and only Parson is even starting to examine those rules, we believe. What if Charlie is also experimenting, or has begun experimenting based on Parson showing him that it can be done?
Equilateratoria is now underway. New players are welcome to join at any time! (Rules)
User avatar
MarbitChow
 
Posts: 2509
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:41 pm

Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 014

Postby Dahak » Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:04 pm

JustDoug wrote:
Dahak wrote:
Decorus wrote:Or maybe no one knows what it is.
For all we know the 4th Arkentool is Parson....


There are 4 known Arkentools. Parson is not known to be an Arkentool. Therefore Parson is not the fourth known Arkentool.

There are an indefinate number of unknown Arkentools. Parson or his bracer could be one but since the other three are the only 3D CGI elements we've seen and neither Parson nor his bracer are, it is unlikely.


Logic flaws.

"Prior to the last election, there were many known Presidents. Obama was not known as President. Therefore Obama could never be President."


Strawman arguement. You fail set theory. If Parson is not known to be an Arkentool he cannot simultaneously be any one of the known Arkentools. Because they are known.

A correct and parallel syllogism would instead have as its last sentence "Therefore Prior to the last election Obama was not president." your last sentance can't be derived directly. Whereas Parson not being one of the four can.

JustDoug wrote:The second paragraph is almost sound, except for, "There are an indefin(i)te number of unknown Arkentools." Who says? There are possibly other Arkentools than the four mentioned in the story, but that's entirely speculative, not at all supported by the story so far and cannot can be stated as fact.


An indefinite number includes the possibility that number is zero.
Dahak
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:46 am

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Keighvin1, Lilwik and 7 guests