Book 2 – Page 21

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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby fractal » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:46 am

Kender Wizard wrote:So, while we can't say for certain, we might be seeing the greatest possible expression of this ability, rather than something that can be used in every circumstance. *shrugs* hope you guys find this useful (or at least have fun disproving it :lol:)

My concern is that, even if it is the "greatest possible expression of this ability", it seems possible that it could be used here to lock out the entire side of Gobwin Knob from ever having another turn for the rest of eternity. No matter how many thousands of dwagons, casters, etc, that GK might have elsewhere. That is terribly broken regardless of how optimal a case this is, even if it takes three casters and the Arkendish. Therefore, I'm hoping and expecting to learn why that isn't actually possible. Maybe it takes multiple turns to charge up, or something like that.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby splintermute » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:48 am

Kender Wizard wrote:There may be a zone boundary against archers on the ground... we have no evidence either way, but its been said that move was required to go from zone to zone for attackers, so its possible. The point I'm getting at is that its nowhere near certain that GKs forces can now be attacked with impunity inside spacerock... Really, the only difference now is that Wanda can't retreat, perhaps can't take the garrison (since she might not be able to reach it), and that other sides can move their forces in.

There's no zone boundary against archers. From Parson's Klog #11:
"Defense Notes
Gobwin Knob has 4 defensive zones:
Airspace - only entered by flying units, subject to ranged attack by garrison units."

Also, city defenders don't expend move when moving from zone to zone.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby normalphil » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:56 am

fractal wrote:
Kender Wizard wrote:So, while we can't say for certain, we might be seeing the greatest possible expression of this ability, rather than something that can be used in every circumstance. *shrugs* hope you guys find this useful (or at least have fun disproving it :lol:)

My concern is that, even if it is the "greatest possible expression of this ability", it seems possible that it could be used here to lock out the entire side of Gobwin Knob from ever having another turn for the rest of eternity. No matter how many thousands of dwagons, casters, etc, that GK might have elsewhere. That is terribly broken regardless of how optimal a case this is, even if it takes three casters and the Arkendish. Therefore, I'm hoping and expecting to learn why that isn't actually possible. Maybe it takes multiple turns to charge up, or something like that.


Disband them, disown them or have them just plain switch sides, I guess. Wanda may do that on her own initiative. Although I assume there's enough time between a turn starting and getting the spell off for a zone-switch, if only to fulfill a Maggie-sent order to make a do-or-die, either-works-for-us-at-this-point-you-emotionally-insane-narcissistic-b*tch attack.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby Ansan Gotti » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:05 am

fractal wrote:My concern is that, even if it is the "greatest possible expression of this ability", it seems possible that it could be used here to lock out the entire side of Gobwin Knob from ever having another turn for the rest of eternity. No matter how many thousands of dwagons, casters, etc, that GK might have elsewhere. That is terribly broken regardless of how optimal a case this is, even if it takes three casters and the Arkendish. Therefore, I'm hoping and expecting to learn why that isn't actually possible. Maybe it takes multiple turns to charge up, or something like that.


My guess is that this power could only be used at most once every other turn. I say this because the production power of a Turnamancer can only be used once every other turn (1 archon per turn becomes 3 per two turns with a Turnamancer).

Again, I am hoping this is a Turnamancer-Charlie-Turnamancer tri-link.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby durandal » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:29 am

This page really hurt my view erfworld. The damage is not irreparable, the rule of cool can of course redeem all, but the following pages have a lot of work to do. I feel an unnecessary broken ability just got pulled out of nowhere.

Point 1) it is a broken ability.
I've yet to see evidence that you cannot cast on other side's turns (maggie mentions needed to save juice for opponent turns and GK is not likely to be engaged). So you can essentially cast this whenever. I believe the parley was not a trap but a legitimate offer for Wanda to turn. So you have the ability that allows you to say: halt any attack of any size after you've caused maximum casualties but before the enemy breaches your walls, catch units out of position (what didn't they just catch Stanely out dragon hunting?) , or double tap an enemy by attacking ending their turn and attacking again (Parson would have destroyed ALL the RCC siege and been homefree if he had this ability at TBFGK). Unless there are some AMAZING costs or restrictions to this spell it is simply broken.

However, that isn't the problem. As pointed out other broken mechanics are in this story and liked. My issue is
Point 2) There were better ways to achieve the same effect
There was an option to include ANY possible spell imaginable at this point in the story. It could have been a completely different caster there if necessary. There are plenty of possible spells which could have been effective without being broken and probably much much cooler. They could have shielded the airspace, snared the fliers, buffed their units, unleashed a massive Kamehameha and destroyed 96% of them, whatever. All would have done the job of stopping the assault cold. Instead of feeling "oooh, Wanda got burned!" the turn end gave me more of a "WTF?".

Point 3) There is no narrative supporting this game-breaker. The volcano incident was a climax, the last resort after a great battle and was itself a surprising and clever use of the magic involved. The arkenpliers were a plot given gamechanger. They are there to turn GK from underdogs into the unstoppable force so we can see all the other guys on the defensive. Also note they weren't introduced mid battle. The turnamancer spell is not particularly clever, most just didn't expect such a thing to be allowable. It is also thown out at the very first attack. Really, you need game changing magic to stop the first enemy thrust. Couldn't you just have brought some more fliers? Where will things escalate from here?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby sslrranma » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:53 am

My guess, besides the cost(Juice reserves, Money, Ect), There might be other requirements for the spell(Certain amount of moves made by the targetted force, Lapsed time, Ect).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby maheshjr2000 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:55 am

To those telling me she cant harm her. The rest of her dwagons cant? The archons cant? OSSOMER cant? Theres no possible way for her to disable jillian? I highly doubt that.
Also along the lines of its all wanda's fault.
I DO think that this is a standard turnamancer ability. No other casters visibly linked (I dont buy that the arkendish allows you to remotely link up). Its not THAT game breaking.
So Wanda should have seen something like this coming. Jillian even told her "I HAVE A TURNAMANCER".
Even if she could not have seem this coming she still should have known that something was up. She knows how much power casters can wield. She should have informed Jillian that she needed her to step down and exit the battlespace NOW and that the caster would be left unharmed if possible. If Jillian refused. Crush her, decrypt, and MOVE ON.
Or heck offer the services of an archon for a thinkagram to the caster!
Christ whatever happened to fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME.

This is possibly one of the WORST tactical mistakes that could have been made in that scenario.

/rant.

I LOVED the art. It just keeps getting better :D.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby ShinyBrownCoat » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:05 am

Scaramouche wrote:Basically, I think the teaser elements associated with Vanna weren't sufficient. I mean, they were abundant in quantity, but not quality. We knew that there was this Turnamancer lurking about, a secret plan in waiting. But there wasn't any tension associated with her. She was there, lurking, lingering, waiting, and we didn't really feel like it cost anything for her to be there. Yes, of course there could have been costs we didn't see - in fact, it'd be crazy to imagine there weren't any. But the very fact that we didn't see them means that, instinctively, we don't respect the effect she whips off as much we did, say, the Volcano incident.

It's the cost we see that makes things have punch. We got to see Sizemore actually agonizing over the Volcano thing. There was desperation involved. It was emotionally rooted in being a last-ditch effort. Vanna just seemed like Plan B. Oh, negotiations didn't work out. Well, that's sad. I guess we'll just have to warp time instead! Who's up for some lunch?

Now, if Vanna's head had exploded, or if part of the castle went missing as payment or if, well, anyone appeared to have actually paid a price for Vanna's help (other than the suicidal queen, who didn't really explicitly pay that price for Vanna in particular) it would be different.


This.

When most people complain about gameplay balance, I believe they are really complaining about the rules and parameters of the universe as established by the story. When something interesting and unexpected happens that also reasonably or even naturally follows from what the reader has learned of the world so far it is very satisfying. Think "Fire Upon the Deep" and the repeated themes of distance, speed of communication/thought, and technology throughout the story, and how awesome it was that the resolution essentially embodied those themes. The conceit of Erfworld is that it operates as a turn-based wargame -- while there have been a few examples of "breaking the rules", the story has not been written in a way that makes finding ways to break the rules a central theme or conflict -- there aren't grueling quests to discover loopholes or really much indication that any of the main characters are worried about opponents doing something similar. That's why it feels so much like (to avoid abusing trope terminology) rules are changed or added solely to solve plot issues that couldn't be resolved under any rules of the universe already revealed. Even sci-fi and fantasy stories need to have some internal self-consistency -- I'm happy to suspend disbelief early on when the parameters of he world are described, but frequently pulling the rug out from under the reader is really jarring and forces you to keep suspending new kinds of disbelief over and over, which is nearly as exhausting as reading this overly long post!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby Chaos Kitty » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:19 am

maheshjr2000 wrote:I DO think that this is a standard turnamancer ability. No other casters visibly linked (I dont buy that the arkendish allows you to remotely link up). Its not THAT game breaking.



Turnamancer instead of 'Vanna'. Why say her title unless there's a danger of breaking the link?

The Caster turned to him, her face still occluded by the hood. She raised her hand, palm up, and brought her fingertips together.

Slately cried out as a searing migraine struck him like a crossbow bolt. He grabbed his ears and held his crown down as he doubled over in pain. A voice, powerful and deep and decidedly male, boomed out inside his head.


Where did that voice come from, and, assuming that you're correct, what possible reason could Charlie have to fool King Slately into thinking that there's a trimancer linkup?

Finally, 'Not that game-breaking'? Making an entire side practically helpless during your turn with one spell isn't gamebreaking?

Logically speaking, I'm afraid you're breaking wind, Mahesh.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby maheshjr2000 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:25 am

Chaos Kitty wrote:
maheshjr2000 wrote:I DO think that this is a standard turnamancer ability. No other casters visibly linked (I dont buy that the arkendish allows you to remotely link up). Its not THAT game breaking.



Turnamancer instead of 'Vanna'. Why say her title unless there's a danger of breaking the link?

The Caster turned to him, her face still occluded by the hood. She raised her hand, palm up, and brought her fingertips together.

Slately cried out as a searing migraine struck him like a crossbow bolt. He grabbed his ears and held his crown down as he doubled over in pain. A voice, powerful and deep and decidedly male, boomed out inside his head.


Where did that voice come from, and, assuming that you're correct, what possible reason could Charlie have to fool King Slately into thinking that there's a trimancer linkup?

Finally, 'Not that game-breaking'? Making an entire side practically helpless during your turn with one spell isn't gamebreaking?

Logically speaking, I'm afraid you're breaking wind, Mahesh.


The voice doesnt really strike me as extremely important.
Also even if there IS a linkup my point still stands. ;)

Does the skip turn card in UNO break the game? It didnt make GW helpless during FAQ's turn. It simply ENDED GW's turn. Thus allowing the others to take theirs. That situation combined with a force that is CLOSE enough to actually turn GW's forces into mincemeat is what made them helpless. They wouldnt even BE helpless if Wanda hadnt...ok now im going into a wanda rant. Backing up a bit. This mechanic by itself is NOT game breaking.

Also we DONT know what the costs of this spell are. It could be a LOT of juice.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby Zavion » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:44 am

Wouldn't it be possible it just delays their turn into a different order? Gobwin Knob, by luck, goes first in the day compared to Slately's turn order.

A spell that causes that to be reversed cast by a 3 Caster Link wouldn't be completely out of the realm of sense or as totally 'unfair' as it might seem. It's possible that Gobwin Knob will get the remainder of their turn after Slately's side gets their turn.

Edit: Of course, if they happen to be alive to enjoy that turn is a different story altogether.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby Lord Kasavin » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:46 am

Upon further reflection, I'm fairly certain one caveat alone can fix "End Turn" and make it an acceptable spell. This doesn't even assume a link up.

THE TARGET SIDE MUST NOT BE ENGAGED IN ANY MOVEMENT OR ACTION.

Also, the caster must be in the same hex as the target, but thats almost a certainty anyways.

In this case, the spell only worked because Wanda decided to parley.

Otherwise, there's no splitting a stack as it crosses a hex, or splitting a column for that matter. There is no postponing an attack unless the opposition postpones it already. As long as the enemy is on its way to attack, Kingworld can't be successfully cast.

What the spell does is allow a player to potentially pull off a very dirty backstab, which is what Jillian essentially did. However, as long as you don't show your back your side is relatively safe. Having a caster in a hex always creates a greater degree of urgency.

More Random Thoughts:

I think my favorite panels are actually four and five. After Slately called out Jillian for negotiating with The Enemy, she tries to play it off because she now going to act in Jetstone's interests. Slately doesn't buy it for a second and it panel 4 stares at her with perfect dead pan and doesn't have to say "who are you trying to fool." Jillian all but admits her duplicity in panel five, though very grudgingly. It shows the different levels of maturity they are both at. Jillian may be a Queen, but she's still acting like the princess who hates her father and lives to get back at him. Without knowing what Charlie and her planned, it seems to me whatever positives emerge from this encounter come from him, not her.

Others have brought up a good point about not being able to switch zones when its somebody else's turn. That being said, I think we have evidence of Yellow Dwagons, at least, being able to attack other zones in a method similar to archery. I wouldn't rule out Spacerock being safe yet, as it may be possible for Dwagons to attack the tower from the air zone. If nothing else, Jillians airforce is definitely still vulnerable, and if I were Wanda I'd have zero reasons to not attack now.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby zilfallon » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:55 am

Chaos Kitty >> I totally agree with your deduction about link.
Still, even with extreme costs, even with a tri-link, that spell is absolutely broken.
This page is the only bad update i've ever seen since the beginning of the erfworld, i hope they can manage to do better updates next time.
I assume that this spell consumes all of Vanna's juice or so, but i think i'll really stop reading if she just spams "Kingworld"
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby Pax » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:38 am

normalphil wrote:Ansom-as-Hannibal,

You, um ... you do realise that Hannibal was a colossal FAILURE in the grand scheme of things ... right?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:41 am

7thSign wrote:Long-time lurker, first time poster.
*Friendly wave to the Erfworld Masses*

I really just want to throw out there the consistent observation I've noticed since before Erfworld had its own site (a la the Giant Forums), in that when seemingly similar "mechanics" or "game-breaking" scenario presented themselves a lot of people cried foul--only to have those same fouls retracted the moment to story unraveled more to present "why" or "how" those scenarios played out as they did. ;)

My point(or reminder) is simply this:

This chapter/story is still unraveling and being revealed to us, have a bit more faith that the Author really does know what the heck he's doing! LOL!

I know I do. :D

Everything will make even more sense given time and page counts---I am sooooo, enjoying the ride Rob and Co. have allowed us to be a part of.

Thanks Rob! :)


Agreed. :D

atteSmythe wrote:Sure, but at least they would've been on attack footing. I meant that specifically this ruse would not have worked. Need the Turnamancer to go to the Magic Kingdom? Fine. I won't enter the hex until she does.


Ah, I got you.

Kender Wizard wrote:If Wanda had come in with her full force, or had finished 'absorbing' Jetstones field force and brought them along, this exact same scenario could have taken place, and GK still overwhelm the opposition.


I'm not sure going after the field force would have been wise. Parson didn't list that as a sound victory plan, since I guess Wanda's dwagon force wouldn't have been enough to destroy it in one turn, which meant they would be held up, Haggar's column would arrive, and the Jetstone field units would have fallen back to the city.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:53 am

luxgladius wrote:2) It's not a symmetric effect. The volcano wiped out every unit on both sides. In theory it could be used as an asymmetric trap, but it would require all of your units to be pulled out of the area and having the enemy come in anyway, along with a portal for your casters to escape through. The Time Warp doesn't hurt the side that uses at all. It just screws over the attacking side. Because of the asymmetry, it's also harder to work around. No matter what size of a force you send into a hex, if you can use the effect repeatedly, you can just freeze them and keep skipping their turn until you redeploy your forces to eradicate them. In the volcano trap, you can just send in the minimum force required, and then follow up with another after the big boom, as long as you know it's coming.


True, although a lot of the time warp being so effective depends on the situation - to me at least, without exact details of what is going on. GK still had turn time to do all sorts of things before they entered the hex, Vanna is relatively exposed up there on the tower etc.

Unless it is possible to cast the spell as soon as the enemy turn starts you will need to have sufficient forces to hold the enemy. And assuming it can be cast more then once in such a short time you'll still need sufficient forces to win in your turn otherwise you will still be facing the enemy when their turn starts again.

In this case Jetstone has its field forces and the Haggar column (and maybe Charlie), so for them it is a good thing. A sound without the forces to actual beat the enemy wouldn't be aided as much by the time warp.

Really I could see it as a useful defense spell as well as an offensive spell. A ruler is facing immanent defeat in his/her capital on the enemies turn, what can he do? Do the time warp, hop on their fastest flyer and get out of there.

3) Apparently, the Time Warp doesn't even require the linked casters to be in the same hex. That's a fairly significant tactical advantage. Right now the "ultimate defense" is useless to Gobwin Knob since Wanda is out of the hex. It seems that the only one required to be in the hex for the Warp is Vanna.


Well, if it is a long range link up utilising Charlie's dish somehow then I'd assume it would work with other uber-spells, not just the time warp.

IMO, the Time Warp is about on par with the pliers, and both are above the volcano bomb because of their increased versatility over just a doomsday device.


I don't know. I think the pliers threat level was escalated thanks to there being such a large force waiting to be decrypted after the battle for GK. If that hadn't been there building a strong decrypted force would likely be a slow process that would require caution and patience.

fractal wrote:There are three hundred different three-caster combinations, assuming that a Thinkamancer is always required. I'm betting that most combinations have never been tried even in the entire history of Erfworld. That's a whole lot of situational game-breaking abilities waiting to happen.


True, true.

ftl wrote:However, the time warp has some major disadvantages too...

3) I'd guess that the casters-in-different-hexes is almost certainly due to Charlie's Dish (unmatched thinkamancy at a distance). The dish is an arkentool; yes, arkentools can do gamebreaking stuff, I agree, but that's part of their point. So if you're going to argue that the arkendish is gamebreaking, I'll agree, but not that the turnamancy spell that it improved in this particular case is gamebreaking.


Agreed.

fractal wrote:My concern is that, even if it is the "greatest possible expression of this ability", it seems possible that it could be used here to lock out the entire side of Gobwin Knob from ever having another turn for the rest of eternity. No matter how many thousands of dwagons, casters, etc, that GK might have elsewhere. That is terribly broken regardless of how optimal a case this is, even if it takes three casters and the Arkendish. Therefore, I'm hoping and expecting to learn why that isn't actually possible. Maybe it takes multiple turns to charge up, or something like that.


I'm not sure it would be possible to tie an enemy up for eternity, even assuming Erf-units were immortal and the spell could be cast every turn cycle.

A side could always dispand units stuck. If they aren't in the enemies battlespace it wont work I'd imagine.

They could have an informal ally to press the attack, help them or something. A side still only has one turn, side x attacks before side y, gets time warped by side y, side w attacks side y. That wouldn't work if it is a spell that could be cast multiple times in the turn cycle though.

And as we have seen - caster link ups occupy all the casters involved nearly completely. Assuming Charlie and his dish is involved here I doubt he would be willing to remain committed to a link up forever. I doubt most rulers would want their two or three casters linked up for one spell forever either, if that is even possible.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby normalphil » Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:07 am

Pax wrote:
normalphil wrote:Ansom-as-Hannibal,

You, um ... you do realise that Hannibal was a colossal FAILURE in the grand scheme of things ... right?



Whether or not a person or character ended up victorious in the end doesn't decide how enjoyable the story is.

Whether or not a person or character ended up victorious in the end doesn't dictate what the quality of the performance was.

Do you realize what Hannibal's consistent performance experiencing meaningful qualitative and quantitative inferiority against competent opposition while cut off from his base for years was?

He wasn't any kind of failure; he lost the war. He's got a real claim for being the best general of the ancient world. Alexander got to take Philip 's army against Darius and his Persians. Hannibal took some mercs and tribal levies and got into a years-long cage-match with the frickn' Roman Republic on their home turf with both hands behind his back and ingrained himself into its collective nightmares for as long as it and its successors existed. You mock people for expecting a prize just for showing up, but in this case somebody deserved one- not that he stopped there, by a long shot.

Ah, nuts, I'm being rude.

Well, might as well be hung for a pound.

God, how I despise this. When two opponents meet, at least one loses, usually. They can both be good. If numbers and positioning so dictate, it often doesn't matter how good either of them are, provided nobody is an outright incompetent. Shit happens. If one loses, the mere fact of that doesn't make him a failure, a "loser", demeans his abilities, etc...

"You have lost this contest, I must now retrospectively paste over you and all your past actions with 'fail' because of this" is such a repellent mindset.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:18 am

durandal wrote: I feel an unnecessary broken ability just got pulled out of nowhere.


I don't know about out of nowhere. The idea that a linked up turnamancer, or a very high level turnamancer, could potentially have the ability to do something to turns has been raised in these forums on a number of occasions, as well as whether it would be too powerful or not. Move a side forward in the order, end a turn, etc.

Point 1) it is a broken ability.
I've yet to see evidence that you cannot cast on other side's turns (maggie mentions needed to save juice for opponent turns and GK is not likely to be engaged).


I'm fairly sure something about it came up in book one. And Maggie is the communication hub, receiving info, which might be a different effect then the spell we see here.

catch units out of position (what didn't they just catch Stanely out dragon hunting?) ,


Well, they would have to have known where he would be and then have sufficient forces in GK's battlespaces to get him on his dwagon and get past the Archon scouts that would have warned him troops where in the area.

And again - we don't know exactly how it works.

or double tap an enemy by attacking ending their turn and attacking again (Parson would have destroyed ALL the RCC siege and been homefree if he had this ability at TBFGK).


And he didn't have this ability because he didn't have the right casters. He did have the right casters to cause a volcanic eruption though, wiping out that entire army.

Unless there are some AMAZING costs or restrictions to this spell it is simply broken.


I don't see it, and you didn't really give any examples of how it is broken, just ways it could be used that may or may not work, since we don't know the frequency it can be cast, its cost etc. Plus a lot of that depends on the "a spell can be cast that effects the enemy even if it isn't your turn and even if the enemy isn't attacking you in your battlespace".

There was an option to include ANY possible spell imaginable at this point in the story. It could have been a completely different caster there if necessary. There are plenty of possible spells which could have been effective without being broken and probably much much cooler. They could have shielded the airspace, snared the fliers, buffed their units, unleashed a massive Kamehameha and destroyed 96% of them, whatever. All would have done the job of stopping the assault cold. Instead of feeling "oooh, Wanda got burned!" the turn end gave me more of a "WTF?".


Wait, a spell that would have insta-killed 96% (a slight decrease on Parson's uncroaking of the volcano) of them would have even been preferable to a spell that by the looks of things has to be timed just right to allow existing forces the best chance to outmaneuver the enemy? Massive fireball vs battlefield control and tactics?

Some of those examples might have worked, but then again they would have needed Charlie and Jillian to know GK was planning on attacking primarily with flyers.

The turnamancer spell is not particularly clever, most just didn't expect such a thing to be allowable.


Well, as above, it has been discussed in these threads before. And link ups by there very nature allow things that are usually impossible by Erfworld standards.

It is also thown out at the very first attack. Really, you need game changing magic to stop the first enemy thrust.


Storywise GK is steamrolling Erfworld. They waltzed over Unaroyal, they have defeated everything in the way up to Jetstone's capital, which happens to be the most powerful side in the RCCII. This is far, far from the first enemy thrust. This is leading up to a mini-climax at the outset of book 2 that sets up GK reacting to what happens. Maybe it will be GK's first real defeat since the War of the Tools began.

Couldn't you just have brought some more fliers? Where will things escalate from here?


Why do things need to escalate? Charlie and Jillian have set things up perfectly, Wanda/GK walked into a trap. By their very nature such traps aren't readily repeatable. It isn't like Turnamancer maybe link up Time Warps will become everyday occurrences.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby Zerohour » Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:06 am

I think it's all the talk about linking with Arkentools, and complaining about DeM that brought this to mind.

What if they decrypted Gobwin Knob's Mountain/Volcano?

I just keep visualizing them rampaging across the country on top of their city/hex sized minion, raining hellfire and brimstone on those foolish enough to defy them.

Or just stepping on them. Whatever works.


Here's hoping we get to see the Mobile Oppression Fortress in the near future. (Capable of oppressing you for pennies on the schmucker!)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 21

Postby Gish » Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:08 am

I dont understand why everyone is making such a big deal about casting out of turn. They've done it the WHOLE TIME. From Ossomers Tesla attack, to Wandas anti-air strike, to the archons MANY MANY MANY mid combat spells and contracts...casting out of turn is the NORM. The rule of thumb seems to be that turn order just decides who gets to move first. Actions inside the hex happen in quasi realtime.

Next, this isn't gamebreaking at all. They used to change turn order all the time back in book one, by simply switching alliances. All this allows is for someone to take a move. It was planned out well in advance, as the constant foreshadowing will show. Its not "magic cures everything", its a good tactical move and I think that its only pissing you people off because it didn't come from parson. Parson used magic in his plans plenty of time....and frankly most of them were certainly more powerful applications.

Also, magic, by nature, is SUPPOSED to kinda be gamebreaking. If it were so weak, everyone would have tons of casters to use as ranged damage. There's a reason they cost so much, and why most sides have only one or two at most. More importantly, if everyone has these "gamebreaking" casters, then it stands to reason that they aren't gamebreaking at all. Its pretty fair.

Magic is an important, and insanely powerful, part of Erfworld and its lore. Get used to it.
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