Oberon wrote:We don't really know this to be the case. The authors have played very loose since the originally stated "Can't cast on the enemies turn" restriction was revealed, and then violated many times. The actual mechanics of casting are about as clear as mud. Charlie, for example, can obviously cast multiple thinkagrams on the turns of other sides, without any fighting going on. Explained as a fair case of a broken rule due to his Arkendish? Fine, but that just makes any argument that Charlie can't end someone's turn at any point invalid by the same explanation.
Well, Charlie might be no more a caster then Stanley is, and both tools give their owners access to magical abilities. Personally I have always read it as - a side can't use magic on another side if it isn't there turn, unless they are attacking in the same hex, or they are allied with them.
A side can use magic on its own forces, and some communication magic seems to operate outside of all that - which seems fair.
And even if the "must be in the same hex as the enemy to cast" restriction is correct, there are ways to 'sploit this mechanic. Charley is supposedly not allied with Jetstone, since the royals save Jillian are shunning him as non-royal Tool. Does his link with a unit in the hex of a non-allied side give him the ability to support off-turn casting? Who knows. Is Jillian allied with Jetstone? Is Vanna Jillian's unit? Or TVs? Or Charlies? I'm not sure any of this has been made clear.
Yes Jillian is allied with Jetstone, Vanna does appear to be Jillian's unit. And it is Vanna doing the casting if she is part of the link up. This is the turnamancer like ability, based on what we have been shown of them.
If Charlie also happens to be allied with Jillian...
This ambiguity is a colossal flaw. One of the supposed strengths of Parson is his ability to powergame the system, and find the exploits the rules/mechanics permits. To do this realistically the mechanics need to be at least reasonably consistently presented, and the readers need to be able to read about such an exploit and say "Ahhh! How clever!" But if the mechanics are either kept hidden, or if the explanations the readers get for how things work is always suspect information due to being shown to be incorrect, then where does that leave us?
How are they not consistently presented? Are we talking about caster big spells here? Despite everything Parson is still limited to the casters GK can acquire. Plus caster link ups are dangerous, and he doesn't want them to die.
Another 'sploit: You don't have to cast it on the side that is attacking you. That's no doubt how the mechanic is intended to work, but the common situation would be a caster under attack casting on the attacking units. Vanna didn't end Wanda's turn, she ended GKs turn, including Stanley and company far, far away at GK. So there doesn't appear to be any distance or targeting limitations, as GK units which were not attacking Vanna just had their turn ended. So why not use this lack of distance or targeting restrictions to your best advantage?
Isn't Wanda a GK unit, for all intents and purposes? If you want Wanda's turn to end, you need GK's turn to end as well.
If TV isn't allied with Jetstone a single TV bat in the battlespace allows Jetstone to cast off-turn. And we can be pretty sure TV isn't allied with Charley, and Charley has a presence in the battlespace with TV bats and with Jetstone units. Sounds like a perfect excuse to do some off-turn casting.
Huh? Even if they weren't allied they aren't enemies. Presumably the theory goes - attacking units in a hex allow casters to use their offensive abilities on the attackers in defense of that hex. They can still use magic on their own forces or for communication purposes whether it is there turn or not.
And we don't know about Charlie's forces, and if they are there they aren't enemies, and would likely be protected by being with Jillian's side.
dirocyn wrote:Y'all are making this way more complicated than it is. Vanna the Turnmancer ended GK's turn. There's never been a rule that you can't cast when it's not your turn, otherwise wizards would be useless for defense. It wasn't GK's turn when Wanda set off the air defenses, when Sizemore healed the Golems, or when the three-caster link blew the volcano. Nor was it Jetstone's turn when the Dittomancer increased the effect of the archers.
Although all that would come under the theory that you get to use magic against another side, on their turn, when they are enemies in the same hex as your casters. In that case casters wouldn't be useless for defense, it would just mean they couldn't be doing directly offensive things when it wasn't their turn and the enemy wasn't in the hex with them.
That voice and Slately's headache from the previous comic was likely Charlie, and it could have been because (a) Vanna is linked to a caster elsewhere, and talking to her individually could break the link with nasty consequences; or (b) simply because Vanna needed to be ready to cast at a moment's notice, maximizing the effect of prematurely ending GK's turn. Vanna's orders may have included "if Wanda leaves the hex where her army is--end GK's turn." This would require all of Vanna's attention.
Both seem possible. Personally I think it will turn out that Vanna dies, if a link is involved with Charlie/Dish. It wont be a case of "the dish's thinkamancy can safely break the link" it will be a case of breaking the connection with so much Arkentool power automatically being fatal to the non-attuned member/members of the link.
Of course Charlie will have neglected to inform either Jillian or Vanna of the fact. And this is probably something Charlie doesn't offer to clients because it would be to intimidating - long distance link ups would make him seem a threat, plus if it killed the caster/casters involved most sides wouldn't think it worth it.
As far as we can see, ending GK's turn is the only thing that happened. Now it will be the coalition's turn--Jetstone can use its turn to re-apportion its troops, and possibly make a sortie against GK's troops. The Coalition's best move would be to attack, focusing all units (including the Archers and Dittomancer) on Wanda. If they croak or capture Wanda, it will take all Parson's got to keep GK alive.
Agreed. Haggar might still be a wild card though.
A spell that ends the other side's turn is no more game-breaking than switching alliances after moving, thereby moving twice while the other side only goes once. If the spell could be cast on multiple, consecutive turns (where only one side ever gets to have a turn) then it would be game-breaking. The first side to get a turnmancer would take over the world. If I were the game master, this spell would use all of the caster's juice, which would not be replenished until the start of that side's turn on the next day.
Agreed again. Plus we must remember - Unaroyal had a turnamancer. Unaroyal had this turnamancer. Unaroyal never used this turnamancer like this, which implies something special is going on here that was outside the reach of Unaroyal's resources/abilities.
They seemed to be lacking a thinkamancer there at the very end, so that might be it, plus if another caster is involved they might have been lacking that one as well.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.