Book 2 – Page 22

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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby raphfrk » Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:02 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Ansom sure takes a long time to form a coherent interior monologue that coalesces into a new text update.


Seems there is going to be delays for the new 2 weeks :(.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Hiai » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:17 pm

Although I am still leaning toward Ansom being the most likely target for the turnamancer, I have to point out the flaw in the arguments people have been giving for Parson NOT being a target.

Most arguments have been hinged on the idea that GK is too far away (which would apply equally to Vurp, Maggie, Sidemore, etc.). This argument of distance completely ignores the fact that Jillian and her force are highly mobile flyers with a huge amount of newly-reset move. If the dwagons, which have slightly lower move than gwiffons, were able to get to Jetstone, then presumably the megalogwiffons would be able to as well, not to mention the gwiffons, obviously.

That doesn't even factor in Charlie's highly mobile forces, etc. So, if by chance Jillian WANTED to go to GK, there's no reason at all that she couldn't. Wanda's airforce could do nothing about it, and no other forces in the area have any kind of effective airforce that would delay Jillian.

So, Jillian's objective (in terms of known units, of course) is limited only by her own desires and the possible shortcomings of the turnamancer's non-linked, low-juiced efforts.

Thus, I EXPECT it to be Ansom, but I remain prepared (and tbh sorta HOPE) to see a "surprise guest" on the short list for turning.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby ftl » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:46 pm

Hiai wrote:Although I am still leaning toward Ansom being the most likely target for the turnamancer, I have to point out the flaw in the arguments people have been giving for Parson NOT being a target.

Most arguments have been hinged on the idea that GK is too far away (which would apply equally to Vurp, Maggie, Sidemore, etc.). This argument of distance completely ignores the fact that Jillian and her force are highly mobile flyers with a huge amount of newly-reset move. If the dwagons, which have slightly lower move than gwiffons, were able to get to Jetstone, then presumably the megalogwiffons would be able to as well, not to mention the gwiffons, obviously.

That doesn't even factor in Charlie's highly mobile forces, etc. So, if by chance Jillian WANTED to go to GK, there's no reason at all that she couldn't. Wanda's airforce could do nothing about it, and no other forces in the area have any kind of effective airforce that would delay Jillian.

So, Jillian's objective (in terms of known units, of course) is limited only by her own desires and the possible shortcomings of the turnamancer's non-linked, low-juiced efforts.

Thus, I EXPECT it to be Ansom, but I remain prepared (and tbh sorta HOPE) to see a "surprise guest" on the short list for turning.


Just a note - I'm pretty sure it's megalogwifs, not megalogwiffons. Sorry to be nitpicky :)

And 2nd note - GK's army took many, many turns to get from Gobwin Knob to Jetstone. There's no way that any unit can make that trip in one turn, except by use of a dwagon relay or equivalent setup.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Dark Arbiter » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:11 am

splintermute wrote:There are no forces in the hexes adjacent to the city, or if there are, they're Tramennis' - it's not clear how many hexes away Expository Bridge is from the city. Haggar's forces are "half a turn away" suggesting they're more than 1 hex away. Ansom's forces are somewhere on the other side of the bridge from Tramennis. The whole point of the GK air force was that they could circumvent Tramennis' ground army. Since Ansom is leading the GK ground forces, he doesn't have that luxury.

If Jillian can land her forces, she can leave through the front gate with impunity.



Didn't think about that. Fair point. I stand corrected.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Dark Arbiter » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:12 am

raphfrk wrote:
BLANDCorporatio wrote:Ansom sure takes a long time to form a coherent interior monologue that coalesces into a new text update.


Seems there is going to be delays for the new 2 weeks :(.


True that. Guess the whole "decrypted" thing makes it tough to translate thoughts to words.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:25 am

Hiai wrote:Most arguments have been hinged on the idea that GK is too far away (which would apply equally to Vurp, Maggie, Sidemore, etc.). This argument of distance completely ignores the fact that Jillian and her force are highly mobile flyers with a huge amount of newly-reset move. If the dwagons, which have slightly lower move than gwiffons, were able to get to Jetstone, then presumably the megalogwiffons would be able to as well, not to mention the gwiffons, obviously.


That shouldn't work either. Even if Jillian expanded all her flyers move they likely still wouldn't have enough to get to GK in one turn. As it is GK needed a relay to get Ansom from the front to GK in a turn, and they have advanced even further since then.

And if by some miracle Jillian did have enough move to get there I can't imagine her then having the move to get away from GK without incurring the wrath of whatever Dwagons Stanley has back home when GK's next turn starts.

Now if the Dittomancer could double move...

That doesn't even factor in Charlie's highly mobile forces, etc. So, if by chance Jillian WANTED to go to GK, there's no reason at all that she couldn't. Wanda's airforce could do nothing about it, and no other forces in the area have any kind of effective airforce that would delay Jillian.


Although Jillian leaving Spacerock at the moment would still leave Wanda and her forces at Jetstone's mercy, though Jetstone's efforts to eliminate/capture them might be hindered without Jillian's flyers.

So, Jillian's objective (in terms of known units, of course) is limited only by her own desires and the possible shortcomings of the turnamancer's non-linked, low-juiced efforts.


Plus her own knowledge, since we don't know how high on Jillian's list Parson would be. Charlie would like him away from GK, but he likely wouldn't level with Jillian on that front, just like he didn't with Ansom.

raphfrk wrote:Seems there is going to be delays for the new 2 weeks :(.


:( indeed.

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Wow.

Ansom sure takes a long time to form a coherent interior monologue that coalesces into a new text update.


I don't know why, but for some reason I suddenly imagined Ansom with elevator music playing in his head instead of any thinking going on.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Goshen » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:25 am

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
Hiai wrote:Most arguments have been hinged on the idea that GK is too far away (which would apply equally to Vurp, Maggie, Sidemore, etc.). This argument of distance completely ignores the fact that Jillian and her force are highly mobile flyers with a huge amount of newly-reset move. If the dwagons, which have slightly lower move than gwiffons, were able to get to Jetstone, then presumably the megalogwiffons would be able to as well, not to mention the gwiffons, obviously.


That shouldn't work either. Even if Jillian expanded all her flyers move they likely still wouldn't have enough to get to GK in one turn. As it is GK needed a relay to get Ansom from the front to GK in a turn, and they have advanced even further since then.


Don't forget that Parson figured out how a single unit can essentially cross the board with a dragon relay. Presumably one could do that with archons to get to GK. Lots of big IFs there, the fattest of them being whether a svelt archon can carry Parson! Other problems too. Nah.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:26 am

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
BLANDCorporatio wrote:Wow.

Ansom sure takes a long time to form a coherent interior monologue that coalesces into a new text update.


I don't know why, but for some reason I suddenly imagined Ansom with elevator music playing in his head instead of any thinking going on.


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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Flyer » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:24 am

DoctorJest wrote:
Flyer wrote:
DoctorJest wrote: Parson just doesn't fit.


I would only disagree by adding the caveat that Charlie has something up his so-far invisible but highly productive sleeve. Perhaps an Archon enhanced teleport trail right to GK with enough Archon support to neutralize its (currently) somewhat meagre defences. Turnamancer turns on the juice, Parson has an erf-changing experience - aaaand...... i have no idea.... wait - i got it - >>>>PLOT<<<<


And that still doesn't explain how a turnamancer can turn a unit half way across Erfworld


You don't see where I said if Charlie can get her to GK? I"ve mentioned it in every post so far... In fact I strictly AGREE WITH YOU - uNlEsS - *****CHARLIE can get Jillian and the turnamancer to GK.******** you even quoted me of one way it could be done. That's 3 - should I repeat myself again?
...and Jillian just thought of that right now for... no good reason?


Obviously not - this would have been The Charlie Plot from the beginning. Jillian wanted to get back with Wanda. And would have turned against the RC2, Charlie and everyone else for it. Though I thought her parley attempt was weak in one aspect - using fate as a reason for Wanda to turn - "You cannot go against fate - because when you do go against fate - it's part of fate too" "join me, darling Wanda and let fate sort itself out" (with apologies to messrs. Ash, Haskins & Haskins)


No, doesn't make sense. There's no reason for Jillian to suddenly think of turning Parson and there's no reason to suppose a turnamancer could, as a standard ability, turn someone who isn't even present.


To wrap it up, since you like seeing me saying the same things over again, she didn't just think of it - it's been Charlie's plan since the beginning. And Charlie having some way of transporting her to GK to turn Parson would be an integral part of such a plan....
the only thing Jillian had planned was to turn against everybody if Wanda would join her..... and she didn't. So close though.....
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby SteveMB » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:43 pm

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:I don't know why, but for some reason I suddenly imagined Ansom with elevator music playing in his head instead of any thinking going on.

LOL. :lol:

(Though, seriously, Ansom has shown more independence of thought than I might have initially expected from the Decrypted, based on my first impression of his immediately adopting a whole new worldview to reconcile his religiosity with his new allegiance.)
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Crovius » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:53 pm

SteveMB wrote:
Dancing Cthulhu wrote:I don't know why, but for some reason I suddenly imagined Ansom with elevator music playing in his head instead of any thinking going on.

LOL. :lol:

(Though, seriously, Ansom has shown more independence of thought than I might have initially expected from the Decrypted, based on my first impression of his immediately adopting a whole new worldview to reconcile his religiosity with his new allegiance.)


Yeah, but when Wanda basically ordered him to drop it, he agreed. He was reluctant about it, sure, but he still followed the order despite his personal feelings. So, is he a mindless automaton? No. Does he follow every order she gives willingly? He follows them, though he might have a complaint here and there. Is he loyal to Wanda? Yes, extremely so.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Ansan Gotti » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:29 pm

Folks, seriously, there is no way Parson can be the answer because it would be seriously gamebreaking -- and I use this term regardless of whether you see Erf as a "game" or a "game-like world" -- if Turnamancers have even the bare possibility of turning high-level units from THAT far range. If that were the case, any side with a Turnamancer could just have him or her take as many potshots as juice allows to go for the best units of every neighboring side. Every single turn.

The only way I could see that would balance out a super-long-range turning ability like that would be if the ramifications of failure are severe, such as mind coma a la Wanda post-suggestion-break, damage or even death. But I don't get that impression based on the Turnamancer's response and her seemingly immediate readiness to offer to give it a shot.

I think the answer has to be Ansom, and every other answer is a serious longshot. I just hope she fails, because otherwise it would be too easy, IMO.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby CnSvnc » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:15 pm

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:I don't know why, but for some reason I suddenly imagined Ansom with elevator music playing in his head instead of any thinking going on.

I believe I have to react: Mwahahaha!
And also, if Ansom was playing music, I'd bet Ossomer would have a continuous beep.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Wender » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:22 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:I think the answer has to be Ansom, and every other answer is a serious longshot. I just hope she fails, because otherwise it would be too easy, IMO.


Not to mention, nothing would serve the chapter title better than to have Wanda love Jillian, who loves Ansom, who loves Wanda. Especially if Ansom goes evangelical and tells Jillian all about how he remembered thinking he loved her, but it was nothing compared to the profound love he had for his mistress.

To have a turn attempt fail because Ansom loved Wanda too much? Priceless. I don't imagine Jillian taking that well at all.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Ansan Gotti » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:32 pm

Wender wrote:
Ansan Gotti wrote:I think the answer has to be Ansom, and every other answer is a serious longshot. I just hope she fails, because otherwise it would be too easy, IMO.


Not to mention, nothing would serve the chapter title better than to have Wanda love Jillian, who loves Ansom, who loves Wanda. Especially if Ansom goes evangelical and tells Jillian all about how he remembered thinking he loved her, but it was nothing compared to the profound love he had for his mistress.

To have a turn attempt fail because Ansom loved Wanda too much? Priceless. I don't imagine Jillian taking that well at all.


Totally agree. That would be great, IMO.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:35 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:Folks, seriously, there is no way Parson


Oh yee of little faith.

So far, pretty much everybody apart from Janis has been proposed as a possible target with *cough* very cogent arguments.

Oh and the Turnamancer too. Ok, then I know what will happen. "Turnamancer, turn yourself inside out."
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Lord Kasavin » Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:13 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:
Ansan Gotti wrote:Folks, seriously, there is no way Parson


Oh yee of little faith.

So far, pretty much everybody apart from Janis has been proposed as a possible target with *cough* very cogent arguments.

Oh and the Turnamancer too. Ok, then I know what will happen. "Turnamancer, turn yourself inside out."


OK, that clip was awesome. Not so much for the theory, I was never a fan of topology, but for the fact that it made complex math readily understandable without using jargon or handwaving.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Cobalt » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:00 am

uhm...

is it possible for her to turn tramenis (courrent General of jetsone) and get control over him and his forces to get the capital for herself?

its the perfect way to show of :D
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Thalnawr » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:07 am

Isn't Parson level 2 or something? To me that would kind of disqualify him, simply because Jillian asked about a "high level unit".
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby HandofShadows » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:48 am

Thalnawr wrote:Isn't Parson level 2 or something? To me that would kind of disqualify him, simply because Jillian asked about a "high level unit".


We don't know if he leveled or not since then. (And no one can even see his level and he may be deliberatly not mentioning such things to keep Stanley quite).

You know I just noticed that Stanley picked up on his turn ending a LOT faster than Stately noticing his turn started. Maybe he is not a quite as dumb as he seems.
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