Book 2 – Page 22

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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby hotmailsucks2 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:59 pm

Long time reader and lurker - 1st time poster.

I must say I really enjoy erfworld. Great storyline.
PLOT 8-)
It's practically the only webcomic I read now. I miss the old artist but the new one has grown on me. I especially like how she draws Parson, Stanley, and Jillian.

Heres my ideas about this recent turn of events.

Obviously the big guns just got whooped out. Charles picked up on the three caster link and is using it like Parson did to avoid the total annhilation of Jetstone's forces. Erfworldians surely already knew about the three caster link - but had it been used in such a tide-turning rule-breaking show of desperational force the way Parson used it? I think Parson's actions made Charles reevaluate the potency of such a maneuver - but given the potency of the Arkendish, Charles can use tri-caster links in a way never before seen by Erfworlders. He's figured out how to end the other sides turn for crying out loud! That SHOULD be impossible, right? Look at how Stanley reacted.. Parson is automatically crunching the figures of potential outcomes.. taking it all in stride - but Stanley is fit to be tied. He just keeps asking "How did they do that?!" Obviously he's never seen anything like this since he popped. Wanda even looks surprised.

Predictions?

More than likely... given the story line.. Jillian wants to try and turn Ansom. She's not over him. Wanda is a plaything - Ansom is potentially more.
BUT
Here's what I think about what Jillian would do next.
She mentioned that she finally knows what she's here for. What has she always been around for? To Fight. She is flying straight towards the GK'ers.. but what if.. she was to turn Slately? IF that were possible.. then Jetstone would flip flop to Jillian and Charles's side. Win WIn for Charles, Win Lose for Jillian. He's a hidden benefactor with a hidden plan, she's a rowdy warlord who loves battle, but she'll slay the ones she loves. Jillian is so much of a lose cannon that Charles could manipulate her easily. Sounds like Charles to me. Charles dosent make a move without some kind of hidden ulterior motive - and what better way to blow Erfworld wide open than to get all of his enemies to destroy each other. He's brilliant - but conniving. Jillian did say she wanted to turn a high level character though.. so is Slately high level or just like a lvl.1 with tons of minions.

And as for the Decrypted. Well. Wanda has overestimated her abilities and has grown too confident.They are loyal beyond loyal to Wanda but I think that is only because of the Arkenpliers and not because of Wanda. I think whoever held the Arkenpliers would automatically get the same kind of "Zombie Love" that Wanda is getting right now. I also think that the decrypted will stick around if Wanda was to eat it and wait for the next person to pick up the pliers.

And as for turning Parson? Pfff. He's not even affected by the same rules that other Erf'ers are. I doubt a turning spell would do anything other than waste a casters juice, no matter how many casters tried it.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Neko » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:48 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:I think the answer has to be Ansom, and every other answer is a serious longshot. I just hope she fails, because otherwise it would be too easy, IMO.


I think you're correct, but what will be innovative is the METHOD of the turning. I'm still sticking to my TFH theory - Jillian captures Ansom and brings him to Jetstone's Healomancer for a resurrection attempt. If it works, even if Ansom is no longer a Decrypted he is still technically on GK's side. All the loyalty and Toolism shenannigans leave his thought process b/c he is no longer under the influence of the Arkenpliers so he is likely to turn on his own anyways. In a situation like that, it would only take a little bit of juice from the Turnamancer to tip the balance. What Jillian wants to influence is Ansom turning to Faq NOT back to Jetstone.

And technically, if she removes her fliers from the Spacerock airspace and doesn't come back she is leaving Wanda to take the tower "sparing your units and mine." Just not on the turn Wanda thought it would happen. ;)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Lukeios » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:53 pm

I love this comic and all the great plot twists. I couldn't help but register to throw in my theory:

I think it's safe to rule Parson out the target for turnamancy. There are a couple of considerations:
* Distance - It's been said before; but over such a large distance? It is unlikely that turnamancy has that sort of range.
* Level - Parson could be level 2; but if you recall the beginning of Chapter 2 it notes that Parson has only been a part of one major battle (but it was a pretty good one ;) ). He's also a "siege" unit, and has never left home base.
* What would happen even if he was turned? Now he's a unit for the other side and now Maggie would be his only hope for survival. Stanley would likely curbstomp poor Parson. Now that I think about it, would Thinkamancy be a counter to turnamancy? (i.e. Changing someone's mind about turning over might be a very doable thing as turned units are noted to have little to no loyalty for their new side)

Ansom seems like the obvious target...

But what if Jillian wants to break away from her current side to form a side of her own (perhaps with Charlie, since he's obviously a key player in this particular plot)? There was a text update indicating she missed that about her past, and we've already seen her try to pull off a traitor move with Wanda.

This is what I think is going to happen:

Jillian breaks away from her current side in collaboration with Charlie. She directs Vanna to turn the Dittomancer and employs the Dittomancers help to perform the same turnamancy move again except this time with Ansom as the target.

Voila, one turnamancer, one dittomancer, and one high level warlord.

Hell, could a dittomancer repeat that massive game-breaking turn spell that Charlie and Vanna cooked up? Now there's a scary thought... Two turns in a row for one side. Plus a nice little full heal after your first turn, since you heal at the beginning of your turn... That's a huge advantage.

Ok, i'm done theorycrafting for now... Can't wait until the next update!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby SteveMB » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:58 pm

Lukeios wrote:But what if Jillian wants to break away from her current side to form a side of her own (perhaps with Charlie, since he's obviously a key player in this particular plot)? There was a text update indicating she missed that about her past, and we've already seen her try to pull off a traitor move with Wanda.

She already is the ruler of her own side (Faq) -- currently allied with the RCC, but she could break that alliance if she saw fit.
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Cobalt » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:05 pm

i Still think that turnung tramenis would give her the perfect chance to show wanda that she´s got her own way.
Julian would be at advantage to take jetstone or get another chance to negotiate on even terms with wanda (i think she would love to beat the hell out of the King xD)

otherwise... i don´t think she could hold Slately from not attacking any gk units and she would lose friends

plus:

with this outcome, none of the characters we like will disband or get croaked :roll:
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Fug » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:24 pm

A lot has been made (and agonized over) of long distance turning. When Jillian asks Vanna if she has juice for a long distance turn Vanna asks if she wants to try and turn one of three relatively close units, suggesting long range turning might work at a relatively short range compared to what we are thinking. For example short range turning might require the caster to touch the target (or be in the same hex) and long range turning might work up to the adjacent hex. This seems more likely than being able to turn hundreds of hexes away.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby diggitydug » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:37 pm

HandofShadows wrote:
diggitydug wrote:This is absolutey correct.

BUT if she gos for the airspace instead.... and kills Wanda.....

Who gets the Arkenpliers?


We don't actually know if an Arkentool weilder can be croaked or not. Or if croaked would stay that way.



So lets think about this.

Ansom had the Arkenpliers, and was croaked by Wanda. She then took the Arkenpliers and attuned herself to them.

During the Parley, Wanda says "I am going to bring all the Arkentools together, that is my Fate".

Jillian says "You can turn, without betraying your fate"... meaning that SHE is going to do the same thing. She is working on bringing the arkentools together.

Here is my conjecture.

Jillian is over Wanda. She says to the king "Lucky for you She never will". She knows know that Wanda will allways be out for Wanda. The love is gone. There is only room for one person now, in Jillians heart, Ansom. Thus her statement "I know know who I came here for".

*I predict*, that Jillian will turn Ansom, (who will magically become un-decrypted and normal again by being turned). They will lead an assault against the Goblin Knob forces that will kill Wanda (i know, she is a good character, but i think its comming). The Arkenpliers will fall, and either Jillian will take them over, or will give them back to Ansom.

Another thing i have thought of is perhaps the Arkentools have different powers based on whom is weilding them. Ansom used the arkenpliers for a long time but never decrypted anyone. Perhaps they had different abilities for him, than for Wanda? Its my theory, But I dont have any really backing for that.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby ftl » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:05 pm

Ansom never attuned to the arkenpliers. For him, they were nothing more than a pretty good combat weapon. They didn't *have* any abilities for him, really.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Ehbobo » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:13 pm

ftl wrote:Ansom never attuned to the arkenpliers. For him, they were nothing more than a pretty good combat weapon. They didn't *have* any abilities for him, really.


Well they auto-dusted uncroaked, but anyway he never said that Ansom would attune, just that he would get them back.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Dances-with-Marbits » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:55 pm

diggitydug wrote:Another thing i have thought of is perhaps the Arkentools have different powers based on whom is weilding them. Ansom used the arkenpliers for a long time but never decrypted anyone. Perhaps they had different abilities for him, than for Wanda? Its my theory, But I dont have any really backing for that.

Well, when Ansom wielded the Arkenpliers, they destroyed uncroaked units they came into contact with, meaning that they operate, in some way, through Croakamancy. This, in turn, suggests that Arkentools have the same abilities regardless of who wields/attunes to them.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Ansan Gotti » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:04 pm

Dances-with-Marbits wrote:Well, when Ansom wielded the Arkenpliers, they destroyed uncroaked units they came into contact with, meaning that they operate, in some way, through Croakamancy. This, in turn, suggests that Arkentools have the same abilities regardless of who wields/attunes to them.


I love your screen name. That is all. :)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby splintermute » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:16 pm

Dances-with-Marbits wrote:Well, when Ansom wielded the Arkenpliers, they destroyed uncroaked units they came into contact with, meaning that they operate, in some way, through Croakamancy. This, in turn, suggests that Arkentools have the same abilities regardless of who wields/attunes to them.

Destroying uncroaked might not necessarily be croakamancy - it strikes me as the opposite of croakamancy. It might be croakamancy, or it could be healomancy (if healing damages uncroaked units), or turnamancy (i.e. "turn undead"), or flower power (putting them to rest), or shockamancy ("frying" them) or some other form of magic, or just something unique to the pliers and otherwise unprecedented in Erfworld.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Dances-with-Marbits » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:34 pm

splintermute wrote:Destroying uncroaked might not necessarily be croakamancy - it strikes me as the opposite of croakamancy. It might be croakamancy, or it could be healomancy (if healing damages uncroaked units), or turnamancy (i.e. "turn undead"), or flower power (putting them to rest), or shockamancy ("frying" them) or some other form of magic, or just something unique to the pliers and otherwise unprecedented in Erfworld.

Thing is, the Arkenpliers only have a special effect on uncroaked units, they don't shock living units; or heal them; or have any other effect.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Urf » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:50 pm

The problem is Wanda is the one in immediate danger. Whoever is turned needs to have the ability or opportunity to prevent the death of Wanda's parlay team. Turning Tremmenis doesn't halt the RCC Army, does it?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Unknownid » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:01 pm

diggitydug wrote:Another thing i have thought of is perhaps the Arkentools have different powers based on whom is weilding them. Ansom used the arkenpliers for a long time but never decrypted anyone. Perhaps they had different abilities for him, than for Wanda? Its my theory, But I dont have any really backing for that.


Don't forget that Wanda's attuned while Ansom was never attuned... this is another reason that she probably wouldn't give him the pliers.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby ftl » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:16 pm

Urf wrote:The problem is Wanda is the one in immediate danger. Whoever is turned needs to have the ability or opportunity to prevent the death of Wanda's parlay team. Turning Tremmenis doesn't halt the RCC Army, does it?


Wanda will be safe if Jillian doesn't decide to croak her. Without Jillian, Slately doesn't have an airforce to go after the dwagons with. They'll still take casualties from archers, but it would probably be possible to spin it to have them survive.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby CubbyTBear » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:18 pm

Oh my goodness. What if the Turnamancer tries to turn Parson? I mean, Charlie has got to know it's Parson who's the real gem right now ...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Unknownid » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:27 pm

CubbyTBear wrote:Oh my goodness. What if the Turnamancer tries to turn Parson? I mean, Charlie has got to know it's Parson who's the real gem right now ...


I think the general consensus is that this is impossible. If a turnamancer with low juices can turn an enemy warlord (or any unit) from that many hexes away then people would be doing it all the time. It'd be the most powerful tool ever...

So unless Jillian has a "teleportustoGKandpastalltheirdefenses" magic scroll hidden in her stylish hat, I don't think this is a viable option ;)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Ehbobo » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:40 pm

And because Parson is standing right next to Stanley who, if you haven't noticed, has a freaking HAMMER OF THE TITANS
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Re: Book 2 – Page 22

Postby Unknownid » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:47 pm

Ehbobo wrote:And because Parson is standing right next to Stanley who, if you haven't noticed, has a freaking HAMMER OF THE TITANS


Wait! Stanley has a hammer?? When was this established?! :lol:
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