Book 2 – Page 23

[Dancing Cthulhu]

How are Jack and Wanda going to get out of this without being croaked? Especially since they're still too important as characters to kill them off.


But now I'm thinking, with Jack, you never know. I'm reminded of the rampant speculation in Book 1, when Jack was present at the battle between Stanley and Transylvito, about what was real and what was illusion.

So now I have to wonder... might Jack pull something similar, where he makes an illusion of himself to stay with Wanda, but in reality joins Jillian?

The only reason to think they're in any danger is because Parson calculated their odds of survival earlier, but that was when Faq's forces were against them as well. Now that Jillian is leaving the battlespace Wanda and Jack's odd of survival rise sharply.

The calcs gave Wanda a lot of bad chances, with the best chance being to dwagon rush Slately in his tower, which would have involved going through Jillian presumably, since there weren't the force in Spacerock to stop her from doing that and if she succeeded then they were betting on Trem's army disbanding/turning.

Now, while Jillian and her flyers are going, Wanda and co are probably in a worse position since Spacerock can be reinforced by the field forces of Trem and his army and Sammy and his column of heavies.

[yay]

you what would be an awesome twist? if wanda actually died... everyone assume's her plot armor is invinceble, or is it?

alternate idea, wanda turns to jetstone to save herself. because you can't fufill your destiny if your croaked

[Tiger]

So, why is Jack so loyal to Stanley/Gobwin Knob? This is the second time he's turned down an offer to join Jillian, despite the fact that he's obviously still in love with her; has absolutely no reason to stay with Stanley, who treats him like crap (he's trying to get better, though) and kidnapped him after burning his home and killing pretty much everyone else he knew; and in both cases was in a situation where he faced highly likely death if he didn't take her offer.

[Zeku]

I don't personally believe that there's something highly specific motivating Jack.

He just strikes me as the sort of person whose perspective on life doesn't include pettiness. He's loyal to Stanley because that's just the right way to show respect to the people around him. He doesn't judge their personal worth before acting.

[BLANDCorporatio]

you what would be an awesome twist? if wanda actually died... everyone assume's her plot armor is invinceble, or is it?

If you're feeling paranoid, then the whole costume change thing was intended to chip away at Wanda's fan-servicey armour in preparation for her death.

But no, Wanda won't die from a stray Jetstone arrow. The Titans need to laugh. The only character that can, will, croak Wanda is Jillian.

So then ... the offer was genuine and Jack will turn at some point. Certain debates are getting settled in-canon here (to the contrary position I'm taking, btw but hey why not), and other questions raised. Like why would Jack turn later, as opposed to now.

He's been given two very good opportunities. And each time he's pretty much burnt the bridge with a refusal (Jillian didn't hear that ask-again-later thing, no-one but Jack and us did). What's he waiting for? You get the feeling that if he wanted to turn he would have already.

[bossamancer]

well it certainly seems like Jill is going for Ansom, however we have no idea whether decrypted units can be turned and possibly neither does Jillian! ...I do wonder however why Wanda is just letting them pass! Surely, all emotions aside, it would make sense to attack, but I guess also that if Wanda et al. are facing Jetstone's might, then getting injured in an unnecessary conflict would be a bad idea!

[Evil Jedi]

Very exciting update. This new book is going to be epic. Wanda is going to be in a lot of trouble now that Jetstone is on the offensive. And if Jillian takes Ansom away from the ground troops, Trem can stomp right over them and Gobwin Knob will lose A LOT of troops. Can't wait to see what happens next!

[ftl]

well it certainly seems like Jill is going for Ansom, however we have no idea whether decrypted units can be turned and possibly neither does Jillian! ...I do wonder however why Wanda is just letting them pass! Surely, all emotions aside, it would make sense to attack, but I guess also that if Wanda et al. are facing Jetstone's might, then getting injured in an unnecessary conflict would be a bad idea!

Wanda wants to survive. At the moment, they're surrounded and, once Slately gets his forces back into the capital, they'll be outnumbered. Her goal now is survival, and Jillian's right - Wanda's not in the position to pick fights.

Wanda's ability to live to the next turn is governed by who wants her dead. If Jillian decides to help Jetstone croak Wanda, then Wanda's a goner. But she won't.

[Lawd]

Like why would Jack turn later, as opposed to now.

He's been given two very good opportunities. And each time he's pretty much burnt the bridge with a refusal (Jillian didn't hear that ask-again-later thing, no-one but Jack and us did). What's he waiting for? You get the feeling that if he wanted to turn he would have already.

Speculation:
Maybe Jack knows he is second choice in this affair and he is waiting for the moment Jillian will only ask him (instead of first Wanda, then him and after that, possibly Ansom). Maybe.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Speculation:
Maybe Jack knows he is second choice in this affair and he is waiting for the moment Jillian will only ask him (instead of first Wanda, then him and after that, possibly Ansom). Maybe.

That's the simplest thing that makes sense now, so it's a good speculation. Still, what about the mountain pass thing? Wanda wasn't there and that offer was for Jack. Of course he was barely back into his wits and all, but still.

I don't know, we'll see.

Also, how about now for an inner monologue from Ansom, even though now is an even more appropriate time to cut back to Transylvito, where Caesar is surely going "nee-nyuh-neener-nyuh-nyuh in your face Don!".

[CaesarVH]

Jillian is going to turn Ansom, that much I expect. The real question is what will Trammenis do? Either the GK column at the bridge or Wanda are going to bite it and if he doesn't withdraw to Jetstone, it's fairly likely that Haggar will just sack it and kill Wanda in the process disbanding him and his army. If he withdraws, what will Jillian do after she attempts to turn Ansom?

Grr... If only I knew what Trammenis was going to do... Forget Jillian! <_<

can you "turn" a decrypted unit? or will Wanda just cancel her spell the moment that happens.. does she still have ultimate control?
as said earlier the decrypted are loyal to Wanda, not the Side.. so this could point in that direction

[valce]

I'm pretty sure Jack has a more specific motivator. I'd put my money on a prediction from Faq's predictamancer. (Maybe he asked her if/when Jillian would ever love him, and the answer points to 'not now'?) Or maybe he was told his best bet was to stick with Wanda... Who knows!

He puts up with too much stuff for it to just be a personality quirk on his end :/

[joosy]

I haven't seen much speculation on what Parson is going to do so save GK's units. I had my own theories, but a lot of them depended on whether Jillian would really press the attack to capture/croak Wanda.

Now we know that Wanda's group 'only' faces enemy archers (which they cannot retaliate against across city zones, I believe) and whatever fliers Jetstone's side has. Add to that Trammennis' bonus, Dittomancer and Healomancer support from the Tower and they could be formidable. They will have to fight while somehow avoiding enemy arrows. Wanda's team may survive but it is going to take some really bad aim, a good daily dose of luckamancy, some master-class foolamancy, and a solid plan by Parson to keep the key players alive. (good bye, Sylvia)

Charlie is still being surreptitious about his intent even though we all know what he wants: Schmuckers. I swear sometimes I think he was a Moneymancer before he found the Arkendish - not the Thinkamancer we assume him to be. Charlie wants his reputation in the West back, he wants his archons back, he wants the other Arkentools, he wants Parson and his bracer, and he wants to be paid to do it. We will see if the Gobwin Gambit comes into play here via a simultaneous surprise attack on GK by the Hobgobwin and Gobwin forces. (When it rains, it pours)

I believe that Jillian is now on her own agenda here - I'm fairly certain that Slately, Don King, and (possibly) Charlie all want Jillian to croak Wanda right now. I'm assuming Jillian is going to try her own version of Parson's "Capture the knight" and turn Ansom and then try and take him back to FAQ. I believe she will also try to take out the decrypted archons since that is probably a secondary goal of Charlie's as well.

If she is successful then GK should be able to make Ossomer their new Chief Warlord which should help Wanda's entourage's chances significantly.

Its been stated that Slately usually leaves battle decisions up to his Chief Warlord, but I think, in this case, he is going to override any decision of Trammenis' to attack Ansom and order Trammenis, the healomancer, and the dittomancer back into the tower so their bonus will help their inevitable assault on Wanda.

That would leave Haggar in the position of either showing their hand or helping out by going after the GK ground forces.

Assuming no more surprises here is my unimaginative defense-plan:

Have Ansom's crew destroy the bridge or otherwise create a bottleneck so that a smaller force can slow down/stop/whittle down a large one (ala '300').

Have Jack lay down some obscuring fog so no one outside of Jetstone's airspace can see in. That would mean they would be shooting blindly (which they could try) and would be forced to send in their fliers (also what air defenses does the tower have that can affect the airspace??) If Parson can get Chief Warlord status to Ossomer then that would help them trammen.. er.. tremendously against any incoming attacks.

but that is all tedious and boring I'm sure they will have Parson create a new trick that will go down in Erfworld history like the Picard or Adama maneuver. Maybe Parson will find some way to take advantage of the 'time-is-relative' per hex/zone phenomenon and use it to juggle Chief Warlord status between Ansom and Ossomer.

[Diodri]

Joosy, I agree with most of your speculation. I can assume, that once Slately sees that Jillian does not plan to engage Wanda, he will attack Ansom's group, with the intent on wiping it out, before pulling his Warlords and Casters back to the tower. It would also give Haggar time to move his forces in (assuming the turn-o-mancy spell actually did end turn, rather than just push it back. Which could be interesting. Jetstone could count on Haggar's forces, but instead Gobwin Knob finishes it's turn after Jetstones turn.)

Charlie, as always, in the wild card. But yeah, he needs to prove he is not on the Toolists side. The easiest way to do that would be to attack Wanda's group. (He did state he wanted to croak a Toolist.)

As for Parson's plan, well, his tactics are even more elusive that Charlie's motivations.

[joosy]

oh wait..

The archons are all with Wanda.. I had assumed for some reason that they were all back with Ansom. Doh.

That does increase Wanda's group in odds of surviving, but lowers Ansom's. His 'defecting' to FAQ may be the only way he can survive this unless Parson can find some way to keep Jetstone or Haggar from crossing the bridge.

[AllPurposeNerd]

Did you notice the 8-ball on the top of Jack's pimp cane before he quoted its magic cousin?

Because I didn't.

[HandofShadows]

In regards to Vanna turning a character, there is one I don't recall being considered. A certain greaser vampire.

[Lord Kasavin]

oh wait..

The archons are all with Wanda.. I had assumed for some reason that they were all back with Ansom. Doh.

That does increase Wanda's group in odds of surviving, but lowers Ansom's. His 'defecting' to FAQ may be the only way he can survive this unless Parson can find some way to keep Jetstone or Haggar from crossing the bridge.

I suspect Parson will tell Ansom to use his past relationship with Jillian to his advantage, such as faking a Parley to backstab her (in a literal sense).

[valce]

Step 1: destroy the bridge!

That'll slow them down a little, at least.

-C

[Aquillion]

Speculation:
Maybe Jack knows he is second choice in this affair and he is waiting for the moment Jillian will only ask him (instead of first Wanda, then him and after that, possibly Ansom). Maybe.

That's the simplest thing that makes sense now, so it's a good speculation. Still, what about the mountain pass thing?

Jack never had an opportunity to turn during the mountain pass thing. If you watch the sequence of events carefully, it's pretty clear that he'd already replaced himself and Stanley with Foolamancy by the time she swept in to make the offer (you can see the suspicious cloud of bats nearby) -- she was trying to turn one of his decoys, basically. Even if he wanted to say yes, all he could do was watch helplessly from Stanley's Dwagon in the wrong part of the hex.