Book 2 – Page 26

[ftl]

I can't help but be unsure of what Charlie's aims here are. What does he want? What are the objectives?

What follows is fairly unsupported speculation:

We MAY be seeing a repetition of his flaws - he's too greedy, and gambles for the entire cake when he could just have half of it. At GK, he wanted to make off with lots of money, but he went too far - tried to play both sides against each other for money AND pliers AND Parson, and in the end got nothing.

Now, we're not sure what he wants here at the battle of Jetstone. I'm ASSUMING he wants GK defeated; that seems to be a high priority. However, it might be that he's again trying to go too far - he wants not just a standard military defeat but a COMPLETE and CRUSHING defeat, NOW. And also, perhaps, to get some major leverage with Jillian via Ansom.

He could make progress towards the goal of crushing GK by just going along with Jillian. Destroy their ground forces, let Trem reinforce the city; continue supporting the RCCII, via Jillian if he needs to, maybe earn their trust back via this maneuver and be allowed to support them more directly. This fight would still be a defeat for GK even if the airforce is untouched.

But no, he wants it all. He's got GK in a vise, and damned if he'll let them escape it even half-alive - strong-arming Haggar but not just to help the RCCII, but to strong-arm Jillian to destroy the airforce and end the campaign and dust his decrypted archons and Wanda in one fell swoop.

And he'll lose, again. Instead of being back in the good graces of both Jillian AND the RCCII (or at least Tramennis), if he tries to go for Ansom then Jillian will realize the dangers of alliance with Charlie, and the RCCII will see that someone who worked with Charlie, even to help them, manages to come out of the deal feeling betrayed, propping up their worst fears.

Maybe those aren't flaws, usually. Usually he pulls off those gambles; perhaps this time too, it'll take something clever by Parson to deal him his loss.

Ok, that's my wild guessing for today. Maybe eventually we'll find out what Charlie's after...

[Knight13]

Personally, I don't think the art is any more cartoony then usual. Tramennis' expression in panel 9 is just as silly, but no one has complained about it yet.

Also, is that one soldier in panel 8 wielding nunchucks?

[gazes_also]

So finally, no more Talky-Talky, start the Stabby-Stabby

Interesting that he said "objectives" implying more than one.
Croaking Ansom looks likely at first glance, but has a lot of downside:

Ticks off his best ally

Immediately puts Parson or Ossomer as CWL neither of which is advantageous

Keeps Slately and Trammenis alienated

The more difficult task of capturing him seems more likely. Not sure how the transfer of CWL goes if he's captured "alive" goes, but would seem a more difficult task. It also gives leverage with Jillian and Jetstone.

I actually think Charlie is trying to protect Jillian, so the primary objective is to have Sammy capture Ansom so she doesn't risk herself doing it. The secondary objective - eliminate the the archery units so her flyers can go in untouched if the second wave is necessary.

[Lamech]

Charlie's objectives could easily be, "croak 2/3 of their archery and 3 of their warlords", or "capture Ansom and hand over to Jillian"; perfectly reasonable objectives to aid Jillian. And their is no reason to assume that Sammy is under non-disclousure about his objectives. War against the tools remember? Royals are going to be a little suspicious of Charlie; secrets make people paranoid. Especially if the secrets are those of the plotting, leagistic Charlie. Sammy could just be screwing with the coalition, since they attacked and blackmailed his side.

Of course, maybe Charlie is doing something stuipid here. The only thing that springs to mind is "croak Ansom" or "Capture Ansom for blackmail purposes", the former being utterly and completely idiotic*, and a wonderful way to ensure that Jillian helps Wanda, and Jetstone is destroyed or converted. The latter being a great way to make Jillian want to kill him and the rest of the coaltion super-paranoid.

*He may also believe that Jillian wants to free Ansom, which I guess isn't stuipid, but it will still end badly.

[Reclaimer]

Jillian fought GK previously because Jetstone paid her (And maybe because Wanda was involved, too, sure). She's fighting GK now purely to rescue her beloved(s) from Stanley's hammerous clutches. If she got Ansom, she could sit the rest of the war out, since it's now clear Wanda's happy where she's at.

Charlie fought GK previously because Jetstone paid him. He's fighting GK now because... nobody knows for sure. He's putting a lot on the line to see them crushed on the battlefield.

Question: Why would Charlie have any interest in seeing Jillian duck out of the war?

By killing off Ansom, he keeps her in the fight, and furthermore fighting mad. By gifting him to her, he lets her know that she can feel free to disregard all his planning, and that she can also go sit at home and eat bon-bons like a proper Queen. She's not a forward-thinking person; she's not gonna fight GK for any cause, particularly not if it means squaring off with Wanda. She even explicitly said that she came there for... somebody. And that somebody is Ansom.

Personality-wise, Charlie and Jillian are complete opposites. He tends to be coldly logical, albeit superficially charming. Jillian is rude and abrasive, but she's also passionate and caring. He's trying to use her, and it's going to end up blowing up in his face.

Now, what if he kills Ansom... and Jillian has nobody to go back to... 'cept Wanda (And she's also really, really pissed)? Could we see Dwagons and Megalogwiffs living in peace? Or at least killing things other than each other.

[gazes_also]

Jillian fought GK previously because Jetstone paid her (And maybe because Wanda was involved, too, sure). She's fighting GK now purely to rescue her beloved(s) from Stanley's hammerous clutches. If she got Ansom, she could sit the rest of the war out, since it's now clear Wanda's happy where she's at.

Jillian is fighting because she really, really, REALLY hates Stanley

Charlie fought GK previously because Jetstone paid him. He's fighting GK now because... nobody knows for sure. He's putting a lot on the line to see them crushed on the battlefield.

Charlie is fighting to re-establish the staus quo ante, and because he really, really hates Stanley, and he's not too keen of Wanda either.

[multilis]

Did Charlie only show Hagar the stick or did he also offer Hagar a longer term carrot?

Charlie *knows* what Hagar wants through his recent spying. Charlie has own long term secret objectives.

In a standard game similar to Erfworld, those objectives are often a scaled up version of Hagars... let others weaken each other while you quietly grow stronger then scoop in and take over the world. (Usually involves hiding how strong you are till too late to be stopped)

[Reclaimer]

Jillian is fighting because she really, really, REALLY hates Stanley

Why? Is it because he took her kingdom and captured her lover? You think maybe getting her kingdom and lover back might lower her blood pressure a little?

Charlie is fighting to re-establish the staus quo ante, and because he really, really hates Stanley, and he's not too keen of Wanda either.

That is and always has been the leading assumption, but I've never bought into that. Status quo would be resuming services as a mercenary contractor against a marketable opponent. The battlefield is ever-changing; he's not gonna switch his entire established game plan just because one side starts winning.

[Powertoast]

I had to register just to say this, but I LOVED the art in this update. Especially panel two, that view of Sammy changed the way I hear his voice in my head. Good work!

[Glenn]

I don't see any benefit to Charlie in killing Ansom, but I can some major opportunities if he's captured alive. Ansom would be very useful if he were turned. He would make an excellent Chief Warlord for Faq or Charlescomm, especially considering that he now knows a lot more about Gobwin Knob and Parson than he did before he was decrypted. Of course, no one knows if Decrypted can be turned, but that is a good reason in itself to try and find out. Because if they can be turned, that opens up a whole new set of strategic possibilities. It's possible that Vanna could turn Ansom by herself, but surely the odds of success are much better if Charlie links with her again before she tries. Even if Ansom can't be turned, even by Vanna and Charlie working together, Charlie might learn useful things about the Decrypted from studying him.

[sheepfly]

Wabo! Wabo!

So, maybe I missed the memo, but it looks like "Meet the Jetstones" is going to go for more than 25 pages. A welcome revelation, to be sure, though it's probably taxing on Xin. Anyone know what the Word of God is on how long this issue will actually go, or if the issue idea has been scrapped?

[Lord Kasavin]

Charlie is fighting to re-establish the staus quo ante, and because he really, really hates Stanley, and he's not too keen of Wanda either.

That is and always has been the leading assumption, but I've never bought into that. Status quo would be resuming services as a mercenary contractor against a marketable opponent. The battlefield is ever-changing; he's not gonna switch his entire established game plan just because one side starts winning.

Eh, there are plenty of rational reasons for Charlie to take such an active hand in the RCC2's anti-GK efforts.

1) I think we can take Charlie at his word when he says he fears his "secrets" have been compromised. Doesn't make much sense in the context of a lie.
2) Neither the RCC2 nor GK is currently interested in hiring Charlie. This is probably a significant loss of possible revenue.
3) GK may be able to expand indefinitely, meaning every side they defeat is a potential lost client.
4) He undoubtedly still wants Parson, if not Parson his bracer. The other 2 Arkentools also present possible, high value prizes.
5) IF there's a war going on, there's a chance for a payday. Charlie wants to put himself in a position to ask for a big pile of money. You know, being proactive instead of waiting for somebody to ask for his services.
6) Revenge for the 30, give or take, Archons lost at GK because Parson decided to blow up a mountain.

I wonder if he has now added "turn" Wanda to that list. Somehow, I doubt it. I don't think he can grab her while making sure GK doesn't learn about his involvement. Jetstone certainly isn't going to hold onto her when death is a much more convient outcome.

[Magothys]

Charlie fought GK previously because Jetstone paid him. He's fighting GK now because... nobody knows for sure. He's putting a lot on the line to see them crushed on the battlefield.

Charlie needs business to stay operational. He needs customers for business. Stanley has no interest in hiring Charlie for personal reasons, and RCC2 isn't interested because they don't trust him. Between the two, the RCC2 can be mediated, so he's working with them to restore trust. Charitably, since they won't hire him outright.

Edit: Other things factor in as well, wanting Parson and his bracer, killing Stanley to protect his secrets, etc.

[badninja]

Nice this is why I like Charlie, he is truly a magnificent bastard. I wonder if he is hiring because I think I would love to work for him. Whatever his plan is I love how both T and Jillian together come to the same conclusion that this is not going to end well. Got to love how everyone knows that even if Charlie is an ally that he cannot be fully trusted. This was a superb update and love that last panel it just summed up how this battle is going to go.

[Dr Quest DFA]

The last two panels need to be redone. No offense to Xin's skill as an artist, but at the very least Tram and Jillian's facial expressions in the last panel need to be changed - as the above poster put it, they're incredibly cartoony and completely ruin the page for me.

Come on, Erf World is just as much about wackiness as serious developments. Besides, any scene with Trem is bound to have some humor/sarcasm in it. If you can't laugh at the characters coming to a horrible realization (that Sammy may have an objective of killing Ansom) than what can you laugh at in Erf World.

On a side note I would actually like to commend Xin on her art work. I think it took a while for her to find her stride, but Jaime went through the same process. If you look back at the first book you can see an evolution in his art work. I think Xin is going through the same process and I like the results.

As far as the story is going Charlie once again is in the position as manipulator, but this is a more overt kind. I think it will work for him in the short term (got Haggar to do his dirty work) but he is showing more of his operations than he normally would. He tipped his hand to Sammy that he could wipe out his side with a Turns notice. That kind of information is bound to get around and make other sides wary of dealing with Charlie. I think Charlie's reputation will take a hit as sides begin to realize how dangerous Charlie actually is.

But that is just my $0.02

[Oberon]

Jillian is fighting because she really, really, REALLY hates Stanley

Why? Is it because he took her kingdom and captured her lover? You think maybe getting her kingdom and lover back might lower her blood pressure a little?

Nope. She is Jillian, after all. She once expressed that even though she never wanted the kingdom of FAQ, it was hers anyway, and Stanley took it from her. She hates on principle.

Did Charlie only show Hagar the stick or did he also offer Hagar a longer term carrot?

Charlie *knows* what Hagar wants through his recent spying.

He knows, but he sure isn't going to help Haggar achieve those objectives by forcing him to fight until half his forces are lost (unless the "achieve Charlies' objectives" part of the deal is easy to do). I'm guessing he is laying down the smack, both as payback for how Sammy treated his Archons and to eliminate the threat of Haggar wrecking the RCCII by opening it up to direct infighting.

[Nebulious]

Looks like the RCC is once again sporting the Red, Yellow, and Blue. Interesting.

[Snowtitan]

Rob...
You're Going to cut to Parson now, aren't you, of possibly Wanda, and leave us Hanging
You're having far too much fun tempting us with a battle to stop now
I thing I'll Scream now

Jillian doesn't want to lose Ansom again, so she might believe she'll have to break alliance to protect him.

I, Agree Jillian's Obvioulsy going into the fray despite Sammy, But which side she's on is anybodies guess
Mine is She'll Attempt to Isolate Anson, and use Vanna to turn him, and then get out of the Hex ASAP

Also, is that one soldier in panel 8 wielding nunchucks?

Numchucks, A few swords, and various bludgeons, No real army would use such varied weapons (bad tactically - All different intervals), but obviously don't cause a penalty in Erfworld . Mind you charging fortified pike-men isn't a great tactic either

[junovalkyrie]

Croaking Ansom looks likely at first glance, but has a lot of downside:

...Immediately puts Parson or Ossomer as CWL neither of which is advantageous...

Now that's an interesting thought: can a warlord be promoted to Chief Warlord when it is not his side's turn? We know from the Caesar/Jillian/Stanley fight that having the chief warlord in a hex provides additional bonuses, to the point that bats in Caesar's own stack were the equivalent of heavies. So if warlords can be promoted out-of-turn (edit: and from afar), then croaking Ansom would be a massive tactical error, since it would make Wanda that much harder to touch.

Krikey the new artist sucks.

"New"? Anyway, I didn't have any problem with the art except Tramennis's pout in the final panel, and that only because the expression doesn't seem to jive with the words coming out of his mouth. Although...

Personally, I don't think the art is any more cartoony then usual. Tramennis' expression in panel 9 is just as silly, but no one has complained about it yet.

Yeah, he's got a great look going on there.

[Davre]

What's with the green on the bridge in panels four and five?

Also, the art's all good, IMO, except for panel ten. It wasn't until I noticed the black and red livery that I realized the combat was starting! It's very static.