Book 2 – Page 29

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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby Alexei P » Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:42 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Let's look at Jillian's place in Erfworld, shall we.

She is loved by almost everyone who knows her better than a mere name (Wanda; Jack; former Ansom; Vinnie; Duncan; probably Vanna too). She is receiving the, arguably foolhardy (was she really the best ally now come on!), support of Charlie and Don. Both are putting significant resources to back her up. Even the plot favours her. Presumably, Book 2 is mostly about exploring her relationship with the many people who fawn over her, romantically/sexually/respectfully whatever.

Jillian is, in fact, the main character of Erfworld.

Jessus Booping Christ, WHY?!

What had she done to deserve the support of Charlie or the Don? Oh sure she gets results now that she got the money for the Megs, the Turnamancer and the Archons, what did she do to deserve the support in the first place?

I will ask, what has she done, what is she, beyond a 2D sword-thumper, to deserve the love of all those characters? Love is blind, but come on, everybody has the exact same blindness?!


That's nothing. Wait till Parson falls for her. ;)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby The Black Hand » Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:08 pm

Alexei P wrote:
BLANDCorporatio wrote:Let's look at Jillian's place in Erfworld, shall we.

She is loved by almost everyone who knows her better than a mere name (Wanda; Jack; former Ansom; Vinnie; Duncan; probably Vanna too). She is receiving the, arguably foolhardy (was she really the best ally now come on!), support of Charlie and Don. Both are putting significant resources to back her up. Even the plot favours her. Presumably, Book 2 is mostly about exploring her relationship with the many people who fawn over her, romantically/sexually/respectfully whatever.

Jillian is, in fact, the main character of Erfworld.

Jessus Booping Christ, WHY?!

What had she done to deserve the support of Charlie or the Don? Oh sure she gets results now that she got the money for the Megs, the Turnamancer and the Archons, what did she do to deserve the support in the first place?

I will ask, what has she done, what is she, beyond a 2D sword-thumper, to deserve the love of all those characters? Love is blind, but come on, everybody has the exact same blindness?!


That's nothing. Wait till Parson falls for her. ;)


I dunno, I can't see that happening - I think Parson's main interest would be trying to figure out how best to neutralize her.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:14 pm

If you know what I mean.

And I think you don't :P
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:21 pm

HailGreen28 wrote:It's not bad writing. Jillian's a well written character, and I think a good character to root against. Just call her what she is: Jillian Sue.


There's no arguing with taste.

So I will.

I'm blue in the face on why I don't think Jillian deserves her central spot in Erfworld (not this thread others), so I'll go over those items again, maybe, some other time. But how, exactly, is she an interesting, well-rounded, character? The only thing she has going for her is being polarizing. As the saying goes, "Love and Hate are horns on the same goat". But I for one though don't love to hate her (that spot was Tramennis' until he became less hateworthy). Dig?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby doran » Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:58 pm

The real question you should be asking is whether Jillian's capture of Ansom was morally justified?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby Alexei P » Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:07 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote: (that spot was Tramennis' until he became less hateworthy). Dig?


Don't worry, the painfully annoying Tram will return. He's just been fresh out of serious straight-men lately. But look: Ansom is back.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:39 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:What had she done to deserve the support of Charlie or the Don? Oh sure she gets results now that she got the money for the Megs, the Turnamancer and the Archons, what did she do to deserve the support in the first place?


Well, she didn't do anything to deserve any support, and that's why they don't support her. The use her. Don King uses her to establish an example for his new found believe in royalty. Charley uses her to get a foot in the RCC II and to fight against GK without openly appearing on a scene as an actor.

BTW that doesn't mean I like her, I think she bland. But she leads to interesting complications.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby Altima » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:07 pm

Alexei P wrote:
That's nothing. Wait till Parson falls for her. ;)


I am going to hurt you, and the world will be better off if your seed were wiped from this erf!

*foams at the mouth and beats head against the wall* Nevah!

Ahem.

I mean, you're going to hell for this comment. Oh, yes.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby Lamech » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:47 pm

HailGreen28 wrote:Ansom Gotti put it a lot better than I did. But to summarize: Jillian PAID FAR LESS OF A COST THAN WANDA DID. And also WITH PRACTICALLY NO PREP AND PLANNING LIKE WANDA HAD TO.
Erm... the planning Wanda put into it was nicely summerized by Jack, and it was also apperantly a canned tactic: Misdirection, shock, and capture. Jillians plan was: 1) Misdirection: Ansom tried to Parley. 2) Hit surronding infantry: She sent here two other gwiffions in ahead of her to hit the infantry around Ansom. 3) Capture: she captured Ansom by engulfing him. Since we didn't see any planning stage I assume that it was also a canned trick. They were as close to the exact same plans as could possibly be.
Wanda's losses: 1 Archon killed, 1 Caster disabled, other dwagons and archons wounded and possibly killed. And that was after they had completely disabled the escorting infantry when going in.
Wanda had to use more valuable units to attack, so when she lost a infantry it was more painful, but we can see that Jillian also lost two riders it appears. Would you prefer the comic sacrifice its logic for the costs to be more equal? Of course Jillian might have lost megalogwiffs, or additional riders but we don't know yet.

Also your forgetting that GK was apperantly using dwagons for air cover, and Ansom didn't have much in the way of archers.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby Watsit Hoohow » Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:06 pm

Not really enjoying the Jillian-central motif going on recently, but just thought I'd comment:

What had she done to deserve the support of Charlie or the Don?


Well, the Don, I think, is building up Faq because Don's recently started obsessing over the Royalty schtick. "Putting another new Royal side in the game." "Helping another Royal to reclaim her rightful throne." There might be textual evidence for this, but I haven't checked. Even so, it sounds plausible.

Charlie might be going for Jillian as a Royal who doesn't act like it (and so, won't instinctively reject him for holding an Arkentool). He needs a proxy in the game, so he figures somebody fiercely opposed to Stanley, a Royal who can also team up with the RCC2, and one who won't reject him on contact is a solid choice.

But that's just speculation.

Still, yeah, Jillian's getting a lot of boosts, and I'm not sure I'm comfortable with them. I wanted Parson. :(
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby HailGreen28 » Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:49 pm

Lamech wrote:Erm... the planning Wanda put into it was nicely summerized by Jack, and it was also apperantly a canned tactic: Misdirection, shock, and capture. Jillians plan was: 1) Misdirection: Ansom tried to Parley. 2) Hit surronding infantry: She sent here two other gwiffions in ahead of her to hit the infantry around Ansom. 3) Capture: she captured Ansom by engulfing him. Since we didn't see any planning stage I assume that it was also a canned trick. They were as close to the exact same plans as could possibly be.
Completely, totally wrong. Re-read your own link. Wanda's tactic was anything BUT a "canned tactic". 1. Ansom had to have it explained to him, so this was not a common tactic like you suggest. 2. Jack's little dig at Ansom, that the plan was invented by someone "smarter than you (Ansom)", ought to give YOU a clue as to where the tactic came from.

And re-read Wanda's attack again. MISDIRECTION: Wanda actually used misdirection, with Jack making it appear the attack was AWAY from where Ossomer was. With the displacement illusion. Meanwhile Jillian Sue used NO MISDIRECTION OF ANY KIND. She just barreled in a frontal assault, using her units as a meat shield in front of her similar to her attack on Stanley in the mountain gap. Ansom flatly called out that Jillian's fliers were "ENGAGING", so no misdirection or even subtlety there.

SHOCK: Wanda had the Archons shock the stack Ossomer was in, temporarily taking out the infantry screen. No such shock on Jillian Sue's part, she just barreled in a frontal assault.

CAPTURE: The only similarity between the two attacks is the blow-pop used to immobilize Trem., not Ossomer. Wanda had to let her Chief Warlord take damage to subdue the target. Jillian Sue on the other hand, as another poster described, "just stomped on it so she could peel it off her shoe later." Heh.

So no, the two "plans", if Jillian even had one, were NOTHING ALIKE, other than the results. One side did it with a good plan, taking losses as they did so. The other side just barged in and accomplished the same thing with less cost and less intelligence required. Again, it really demonstrates the differences between Wanda and Jillian.

Storywise, it's pretty neat to compare the two. They reflect the actors of the story very well. But neither was a "canned tactic". One side used original tactics, the other basically didn't, other than the same old "use lesser units as meat-shields" we've seen before. (Also when she was captured, she used her gwiffs to isolate a blue dwagon so she could kill it, again meat-shield)

Lamech wrote:Wanda had to use more valuable units to attack, so when she lost a infantry it was more painful, but we can see that Jillian also lost two riders it appears. Would you prefer the comic sacrifice its logic for the costs to be more equal? Of course Jillian might have lost megalogwiffs, or additional riders but we don't know yet.

Also your forgetting that GK was apperantly using dwagons for air cover, and Ansom didn't have much in the way of archers.
You have forgotten the last few pages of this story. Now you're comparing ACTUAL losses to Wanda, to POSSIBLE losses for Jillian Sue. Curious, where do you see two of JS' riders go down? We see normal gwiffs without riders on them before and after her attack on Ansom.

And you forget that GK needed no air cover in attacking Ossomer's stack. The only RCC air units were immobile at the capital (Jillian Sue's airforce, remember?) As to why the dwagons were airborne, I don't know. Maybe mobility bonus, maybe they're natural air units, maybe the illusion was easier without walking on and disturbing the bodies of the knocked-out infantry.

Naw, I expect the story will remain consistent with itself mechanics-wise. Part of the fun is the surprise at seeing new facets of this "game" unfold before us. If not, there's always retconjuration so no biggie. The point is through plot or circumstance, take your pick, we have Jillian pulling off a Mary Sue in capturing Ansom. Not the first time something like this has happened. During the Last of the Last Stands of Gobwin Knob, Parson flat out provided an interesting reason WHY Ansom was pulling off similar ass-pulls in Book 1. (One reason to think this is all Parson's hallucination, too. :) ) Enjoying seeing how all this plays out.

The story's great, I'm just pointing out what one of the characters actually is. But hey, tastes differ, and I have been wrong before.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby HailGreen28 » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:00 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:here's no arguing with taste.

So I will.

I'm blue in the face on why I don't think Jillian deserves her central spot in Erfworld (not this thread others), so I'll go over those items again, maybe, some other time. But how, exactly, is she an interesting, well-rounded, character? The only thing she has going for her is being polarizing. As the saying goes, "Love and Hate are horns on the same goat". But I for one though don't love to hate her (that spot was Tramennis' until he became less hateworthy). Dig?
IMO, she's well written because like Jack Sparrow, or the Joker or Catwoman when they're well-written, you really don't know what she's going to do next. Also the story would be less interesting if she wasn't there. She does thicken the plot, so to speak. Even though she isn't an admirable character and currently has a "get out of consequences" credit card.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby Dunham » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:19 pm

So I'm sure everyone can agree with at least this, but I certainly hope that Jillian doesn't end up attuning to the yet unrevealed fourth Tool.

EDIT: What I REALLY hope is that Balder, assuming he reads these, doesn't go "Boop! Now who's gonna get the Arkenplotdevice?"
Last edited by Dunham on Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby Reclaimer » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:36 pm

Dunham wrote:So I'm sure everyone can agree with at least this, but I certainly hope that Jillian doesn't end up attuning to the yet unrevealed fourth Tool.


Oh god no.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby Lamech » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:57 pm

Completely, totally wrong. Re-read your own link. Wanda's tactic was anything BUT a "canned tactic". 1. Ansom had to have it explained to him, so this was not a common tactic like you suggest. 2. Jack's little dig at Ansom, that the plan was invented by someone "smarter than you (Ansom)", ought to give YOU a clue as to where the tactic came from.
Yeah Parson made the tactic, likely in the battle sims with Jack. They didn't come up with it on the spot, and they already knew about it. So it was canned. One of Jillians warlords or perhaps Jillian might have come up with a similar tactic.

And re-read Wanda's attack again. MISDIRECTION: Wanda actually used misdirection, with Jack making it appear the attack was AWAY from where Ossomer was. With the displacement illusion. Meanwhile Jillian Sue used NO MISDIRECTION OF ANY KIND. She just barreled in a frontal assault, using her units as a meat shield in front of her similar to her attack on Stanley in the mountain gap. Ansom flatly called out that Jillian's fliers were "ENGAGING", so no misdirection or even subtlety there.
We note that Ansom was attempting a parley, when he should have been readying for combat. He had let units get close enough to strike his banner with out countering them, so by the time he did something Jillian would be almost in striking distance. Thats way after one should be getting ready and countering the attack.

SHOCK: Wanda had the Archons shock the stack Ossomer was in, temporarily taking out the infantry screen. No such shock on Jillian Sue's part, she just barreled in a frontal assault.
Panel 8 units of Jillian are attacking the infantry protecting Ansom. In the attack on Ossomer archons attacked the units protecting Ossomer. In both cases the units were presumably neutralized.


Wanda had to let her Chief Warlord take damage to subdue the target. Jillian Sue on the other hand, as another poster described, "just stomped on it so she could peel it off her shoe later." Heh.
Jillian had to let her mount take damage, soo... what is the big differance? And I can describe Wanda's attack as "sucker punching it so it could be scrapped of the ground."

You have forgotten the last few pages of this story. Now you're comparing ACTUAL losses to Wanda, to POSSIBLE losses for Jillian Sue. Curious, where do you see two of JS' riders go down? We see normal gwiffs without riders on them before and after her attack on Ansom.
Third to last panel: Jillian is flanked by two riderless megaglowiffs. In just about every case we've seen were we could actually make out that kind of detail the megaglowiffs, have had riders.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby jkosta » Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:54 pm

It would be hilarious if the last page of this book showed Parson's little sister playing dolls with his stuff and a little Jillian doll riding around on a microwaved gwiffon.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby Watsit Hoohow » Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:55 pm

Lamech wrote:]Jillian had to let her mount take damage, soo... what is the big differance? And I can describe Wanda's attack as "sucker punching it so it could be scrapped of the ground."


I think the big difference is that Jillian didn't really seem to lose anything on what was honestly a much less well-prepared assault. The damage to her mounts seems pretty trivial, and I can't imagine it making an impact on the overall plot (whereas Jack's injuries had some basic relevance). You never know, I guess, but it probably won't.

Frankly, I'm a little troubled at the ramifications of it being so easy to just capture an enemy warlord like that. No casualties, minor-to-moderate (and the latter's a bit of a stretch) damage, etc. Now their biggest warlord is out of the game. Something about that just doesn't jive for fairness. Sure, GK was lacking archers, but we've yet to see anything that causes legitimate damage to Megalo's. Those things have spears in them like a pincushion (and I'm going to assume here that Spears are just as good as arrows for damage here) and the worst of it is only that one of them seems to be crying. Some archers here or there don't seem like they'd make a difference.

On the whole, it seems like everything is subtly bending to Jillian's will in this. Time Stop conveniently gives an opening, Megalo's are so darned tough she can get in and out with not only Ansom, but little enough damage that it likely won't impair her combat abilities a little bit later, etc. I'm really not sure if Jillian's ever had an actual setback. I mean, there was that capturing thing early on, but then she got let out and ran right over the whole reason they let her out. She seems overall impervious to any kind of lasting injury.

Third to last panel: Jillian is flanked by two riderless megaglowiffs. In just about every case we've seen were we could actually make out that kind of detail the megaglowiffs, have had riders.


Iffy at best. I see a couple dots on the back of the Megalo's that could totally be their riders.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:50 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote:She is loved by almost everyone who knows her better than a mere name (Wanda; Jack; former Ansom; Vinnie; Duncan; probably Vanna too). She is receiving the, arguably foolhardy (was she really the best ally now come on!), support of Charlie and Don. Both are putting significant resources to back her up. Even the plot favours her. Presumably, Book 2 is mostly about exploring her relationship with the many people who fawn over her, romantically/sexually/respectfully whatever.


I'm not sure Duncan should be on the list - he is her Chief Warlord, turned to her side by what could be fairly described as a powerful turnamancer after she captured him in a stunning fashion. We know he doesn't have any royal/non-royal hangups, so I suspect he is the type who has to have his admiration earned and in his eyes Jillian did it (though Charlie was the main player in that).

I doubt Vanna does, though that would be kind of funny. Heh forget Casanova, we have Jillanova here. I just hope Trem doesn't succumb.

What had she done to deserve the support of Charlie or the Don? Oh sure she gets results now that she got the money for the Megs, the Turnamancer and the Archons, what did she do to deserve the support in the first place?


I think Charlie is easy to explain on the surface - he came to Jillian after Faq was reestablished and part of the RCCII and used her as a way into an important battle because the rest of the RCCII wouldn't/couldn't accept his help.

Don is a good question though - I'm curious as to why Jillian is such an important part of his plans. Although theoretically for a side like TV that likes to help without contributing much in the way of forces I think having a proxy like Faq could be useful.

Generally though I don't think "deserving support" is quite right. They are using her, or they think they are. Charlie did essentially say "so Jillian, I can't help but notice you aren't killing Wanda which, you know, was kind of the plan".

You can say, so did Jillian; she's no cleverer than Stanley, but instead Fate makes her win time and again. Annoying.


I don't know. It might be the nature of this kind of medium, where shorter periods of time seem longer but for this book's in-story time has been, what, less then a couple of hours? In this one battle, in the short time Jillian has been doing anything, they have generally worked out for her (and Charlie). Prior to that over the summer updates she did well in building up her kingdom (Charlie and Don played a part in that though) and then back in book one she wasn't really on the winning side at all. Before even that in her merc days and Faq days... well, Faq was destroyed and from the sounds of things she was a good merc, but it was still hard going.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:00 am

HailGreen28 wrote:Ansom Gotti put it a lot better than I did. But to summarize: Jillian PAID FAR LESS OF A COST THAN WANDA DID. And also WITH PRACTICALLY NO PREP AND PLANNING LIKE WANDA HAD TO.


And I think a number have people have pointed out the circumstances between the two captures are quite different. Why should Jillian have paid an equal or greater cost then Wanda and why did Ansom's capture require equal or greater complex prep/planning?

Ansom's position was weaker and he was more exposed. He didn't have to be knocked out because Megalos can incapacitate so it wasn't necessary to get a powerful fighter in there to disarm him. He didn't have tons of archers with caster support, so it wasn't necessary to use magic to cover the approach so the megalos/riders weren't shot out of the sky. Megalos are good at capturing, so Jillian didn't need to get extra forces with nets in safely in order to pick him up. And he wasn't in a stack of noble warlords, plus he was on a Spidew which, thanks to its size, would keep units from closing in to protect him, so it was only necessary to eliminate the few pikers to either side so Jillian could safely land on that rather large Spider-shaped target.

And that was barging into an infantry hex that WASN'T worn down much if even negligibly. We saw Twolls with battle damage, but JS even called off Haggar's first wave after Sammy went down. Still plenty of active and able infantry still escorting Ansom, yet Jillian Sue wins with no problem.


We don't know how great GK losses were, since the decrypted dust when they die. And yes - an infantry hex. Good for fighting other infantry, not for fighting flyers, unless archers are also present. We didn't see much in the way of missile troops (none in fact). And yes, there was still plenty of infantry - shame for Ansom he wasn't back with them when Jillian struck, he was out in front and only lightly protected by some pikers who had marshmallow whales land on them.

Plus Jillian only called Haggar off after she distracted Sammy to death and found out their objective was to dust Ansom. She'd have known how costly their attack would have been before they went in.

HUGE difference there.


I think the huge difference that needs to be considered is the position Oss was in compared to Ansom, not the costs inflicted during the successful captures.

And re-read Wanda's attack again. MISDIRECTION: Wanda actually used misdirection, with Jack making it appear the attack was AWAY from where Ossomer was. With the displacement illusion. Meanwhile Jillian Sue used NO MISDIRECTION OF ANY KIND. She just barreled in a frontal assault, using her units as a meat shield in front of her similar to her attack on Stanley in the mountain gap. Ansom flatly called out that Jillian's fliers were "ENGAGING", so no misdirection or even subtlety there.


Why is misdirection or subtlety important or necessary here? Or that Jillian doesn't have it sign of... well, not good things? Wanda needed misdirection because they'd have been shot to pieces if they'd attacked without it and Oss and his warlords would have been on guard.

Jillian had the freedom to be direct. She's told Ansom is signaling, can see he is out in the open - she tells two megalo riders to hit the pikers on either side of Ansom spidew so she can safely grab him. Now complex plans are very nice, I like seeing them, but simple plans come up with on the spot when a character sees an opening are also nice. They can show initiative and quick thinking.

I would love to see Ansom or another high level character burst OUT of a Mego-Gwiff in that situation. Like an Alien Chestburster, LOL.


That would be pretty funny. I am wondering what Ansom was signaling Jillian for - I guess he could have been planning to preach toolism at her, but maybe he has a plan. Maybe he would have surrendered in order to get a bit closer to Wanda/Trem...

Well, I guess we'll wait and see.

Watsit Hoohow wrote:Frankly, I'm a little troubled at the ramifications of it being so easy to just capture an enemy warlord like that. No casualties, minor-to-moderate (and the latter's a bit of a stretch) damage, etc.


I think Chief Warlords are usually in a better position then this. BfGK at least Parson was safely inside the whole time, Oss was tucked away with his forces, Ansom is usually on his carpet or with his men. Plus only one side has Megalogwiff we know of, and for 700 turns hasn't been producing. Plus it for as long as we have known been fairly small.

Of course as I have been saying circumstances matter. The two times we have seen Jillian pull off a capture like this the warlords have been in bad positions. With Duncan it looks like capturing him was always the plan - get him in the open with a parley request and when he is unprotected nab him. With Ansom it looks like she saw an opening where he was exposed and took it.

Now their biggest warlord is out of the game. Something about that just doesn't jive for fairness. Sure, GK was lacking archers, but we've yet to see anything that causes legitimate damage to Megalo's.


I imagine certain flyers could. We know Wanda was going to be able to defeat them if it came to a fight. And they probably can't engulf a flyer like they do with someone on the ground.

Those things have spears in them like a pincushion (and I'm going to assume here that Spears are just as good as arrows for damage here) and the worst of it is only that one of them seems to be crying. Some archers here or there don't seem like they'd make a difference.


Well their riders, like a dwagons rider, are probably a lot more fragile. Take Jack for example - his dwagon wasn't really hurt, he was.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby HailGreen28 » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:22 am

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:And I think a number have people have pointed out the circumstances between the two captures are quite different. Why should Jillian have paid an equal or greater cost then Wanda and why did Ansom's capture require equal or greater complex prep/planning?

Ansom's position was weaker and he was more exposed. He didn't have to be knocked out because Megalos can incapacitate so it wasn't necessary to get a powerful fighter in there to disarm him. He didn't have tons of archers with caster support, so it wasn't necessary to use magic to cover the approach so the megalos/riders weren't shot out of the sky. Megalos are good at capturing, so Jillian didn't need to get extra forces with nets in safely in order to pick him up. And he wasn't in a stack of noble warlords, plus he was on a Spidew which, thanks to its size, would keep units from closing in to protect him, so it was only necessary to eliminate the few pikers to either side so Jillian could safely land on that rather large Spider-shaped target.

We don't know how great GK losses were, since the decrypted dust when they die. And yes - an infantry hex. Good for fighting other infantry, not for fighting flyers, unless archers are also present. We didn't see much in the way of missile troops (none in fact). And yes, there was still plenty of infantry - shame for Ansom he wasn't back with them when Jillian struck, he was out in front and only lightly protected by some pikers who had marshmallow whales land on them.

Plus Jillian only called Haggar off after she distracted Sammy to death and found out their objective was to dust Ansom. She'd have known how costly their attack would have been before they went in.
I'm just saying that due to plot or circumstance, Wanda had to work harder, to plan in advance more, to capture her target, than Jillian did.

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:Why is misdirection or subtlety important or necessary here? Or that Jillian doesn't have it sign of... well, not good things? Wanda needed misdirection because they'd have been shot to pieces if they'd attacked without it and Oss and his warlords would have been on guard.

Jillian had the freedom to be direct. She's told Ansom is signaling, can see he is out in the open - she tells two megalo riders to hit the pikers on either side of Ansom spidew so she can safely grab him. Now complex plans are very nice, I like seeing them, but simple plans come up with on the spot when a character sees an opening are also nice. They can show initiative and quick thinking.
The subtlety was necessary for Wanda, not for Jillian. We can debate how much the deck was stacked in Jillian Sue's favor by plot, or by circumstance. But either way Jillian got her target with less preparation and cost than Wanda did. With the self-congratulations afterward. "Direct? That's what I said!" Ugh.

That would be pretty funny. I am wondering what Ansom was signaling Jillian for - I guess he could have been planning to preach toolism at her, but maybe he has a plan. Maybe he would have surrendered in order to get a bit closer to Wanda/Trem...

Well, I guess we'll wait and see.
Intentional or not, getting captured saved Ansom. He went from being dead meat, to being under Jillian's protection.
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