Book 2 – Page 29

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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby HailGreen28 » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:43 am

Lamech wrote:Yeah Parson made the tactic, likely in the battle sims with Jack. They didn't come up with it on the spot, and they already knew about it. So it was canned. One of Jillians warlords or perhaps Jillian might have come up with a similar tactic.
"They" didn't already know about it. Ansom had to have it explained to him. Wanda appeared to know the basics, but Jack had to suggest to her they needed a displacement on top of what they were already thinking. How can a tactic that not every warlord in the same hex/side knows, that your own side came up with, that has to be modified on the spot, be considered a canned tactic?

Maybe we're quibbling over semantics. What defines a canned tactic? I think it's a tactic used over and over again by the same unit, even in different situations. Where it becomes routine for that unit. Example: "Look, Jillian Sue is using her units as a meat shield again. Such a canned tactic!" What do you consider a canned tactic?

Panel 8 units of Jillian are attacking the infantry protecting Ansom. In the attack on Ossomer archons attacked the units protecting Ossomer. In both cases the units were presumably neutralized. Jillian had to let her mount take damage, soo... what is the big differance? And I can describe Wanda's attack as "sucker punching it so it could be scrapped of the ground."
The difference is that Jillian Sue could just barge in and take what she wanted, without having to pay the cost Wanda did. Even with Wanda throwing the sucker-punch.

Third to last panel: Jillian is flanked by two riderless megaglowiffs. In just about every case we've seen were we could actually make out that kind of detail the megaglowiffs, have had riders.
There's a dot/figure over every Mego-Gwiff in that panel. In about the same detail for the focus available in the last panel. Even the crying Mego-Gwiff has something on it. Might be a disabled/croaked/or perfectly healthy warlord, but there's something on it, like all the others in the panel.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:31 pm

There's a ton of stuff to respond to, and I will get to that eventually but for now-
doran wrote:The real question you should be asking is whether Jillian's capture of Ansom was morally justified?
:P


Of course not! She croaked Teawy The Spidew! Vengeance!!!!111
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby Atomic » Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:38 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:There's a ton of stuff to respond to, and I will get to that eventually but for now-
doran wrote:The real question you should be asking is whether Jillian's capture of Ansom was morally justified?
:P


Of course not! She croaked Teawy The Spidew! Vengeance!!!!111

I couldn't disagree more. You start the debate; I'll get the popcorn.

Oh, yes, the whole "on topic" portion of my post... I find it interesting that Vanna couldn't decrypt Ansom from range... I'm sure Vanna/Jillian/Ansom in the dungeon will lead to some interesting strips in the upcoming weeks/months.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby Lord Kasavin » Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:47 pm

You know, I really can't complain about this turn of events. It just advanced the plot with little talky. I guess we could have spent 3 or 4 strips having a battle where Ansom's capture becomes more and more plausible, but the outcome would have been the same and it would take a month of updates.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:56 pm

HailGreen28 wrote:I'm just saying that due to plot or circumstance, Wanda had to work harder, to plan in advance more, to capture her target, than Jillian did.


On that we are in agreement. My view is that it just doesn't reflect badly on Jillian that she could go for a less complex, more direct capture with theoretically fewer losses because the situation was there for it to work. All this talk of the price Wanda paid... well, due to circumstances there was no reasonable reason Jillian should have to have paid such a price.

I guess the debate, as you say below, is on deck stacking.

The subtlety was necessary for Wanda, not for Jillian. We can debate how much the deck was stacked in Jillian Sue's favor by plot, or by circumstance. But either way Jillian got her target with less preparation and cost than Wanda did. With the self-congratulations afterward. "Direct? That's what I said!" Ugh.


Well, it is the story. There are going to be times things are in favor or one side or the other. Wanda left Ansom behind, Ansom made do with the forces he had, it wasn't enough, he got captured by a force capable of taking advantage of his situation.

That's really all I am saying. All this "but Jillian lost less then Wanda even with less planning" is largely meaningless since the two situations were very different and the losses incurred were in line with that. And why, with a bit more luck Wanda could have gotten out without Jack injured or an Archon lost. That was just the way the arrows fell.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby Sigma » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:48 pm

Altima wrote:Linking does require a Thinkamancer. Are people discussing that it doesn't? The only time we're shown it might possibly be done without is when the Kingsworld spell was cast--and it's been heavily implied that the reason there weren't any casters there is because she was linked with Charlie and his Arkendish. After all, the spell drained Vanna's juice for two turns (though she strangely had enough left to 'try' to turn Ansom, but I suppose it's possible because Jillian told her to).

It's also possible that a Master-class Thinkamancer may be able to do long-range links (remember, Maggie's 'only' an Adept class).
I think the confusion might have been because people were speculating about "Croakamancer-Healomancer" and "Croakamancer-Turnmancer" linkups, without explicitly mentioning the Thinkamancer doing the linking. In my mind, the Thinkamancer is implicit -- much like bread is implicit when people outside of Erf talk about PB&J or BLT sandwiches. It's not explicitly mentioned in either sandwich's name, but we all know it's there. Of course, I also think the Jillian/Mary Sue debate is going to continue until well after she's been croaked, decrypted, and croaked again (or Erfworld ends, whichever's first), so there you go.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 29

Postby Lamech » Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:50 pm

HailGreen28 wrote:"They" didn't already know about it. Ansom had to have it explained to him. Wanda appeared to know the basics, but Jack had to suggest to her they needed a displacement on top of what they were already thinking. How can a tactic that not every warlord in the same hex/side knows, that your own side came up with, that has to be modified on the spot, be considered a canned tactic?

Maybe we're quibbling over semantics. What defines a canned tactic? I think it's a tactic used over and over again by the same unit, even in different situations. Where it becomes routine for that unit. Example: "Look, Jillian Sue is using her units as a meat shield again. Such a canned tactic!" What do you consider a canned tactic?
Yup, totally arguing over semantics.
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