Squishalot wrote:Anyway, it's my view that Wanda and the dwagons will be able to return fire if attacked from the ground and the tower, but not move from their aerial position, based on the evidence. This means that the dragons will be able to use their breath attacks (limited usage per day/encounter, based on what we've seen in the past) but not melee. This still opens up a wide array of possible defences - blow-popping entrances to parapets and so forth.
It'd be interesting to see if decryption is a 'natural ability' or a 'spell' - after all, the Archons could use natural abilities to influence the battle for Gobwin Knob, so...
Where have we seen dwagons with limited breath attacks?
Also, I don't think it makes a difference if it's a natural ability or spell - the archons were able to use their illusions, but their attacks/magic couldn't cross the zone boundary. A caster (if the archons happened to be carrying one at the time) would have been in the same situation.
GK's situation right now is most analogous to that of the archons at tBfGK after Charlie ended turn - whatever limitations applied to them also apply to Wanda's dwagon squad now.
Certain comments, certain fight scenes. Jillian's comment when she's engaging Stanley - "get that out of your system" - when her gwiffons get roasted, seems to imply that there's either a limit on breath attacks or a long cooldown. But in the context of TBS games, it's more likely to be a turn/encounter-based limit.
Also, consider that we've never seen dwagons use more than one breath attack in a single turn. Jillian's assault on the wounded dwagons would have been much shorter lived if they could have just burst the archons and gwiffons down with breath attacks.
I agree that whatever limitations applied to the archons apply to Wanda's squad. But by the same token, the archons seemed to take somewhat... liberal views of the game mechanics. I mean, they applied a dance-fighting leadership bonus to troops in a different city area to them (it was specifically identified as foolamancy and leadership in one of the Summer Updates).
Still, probably the biggest game-flaw is that Parson, Maggie, Wanda and Sizemore were able to move to the Magic Kingdom, I think.
trotsky wrote:However, you must also consider that the Archons attacking GW in book 1 could not directly assist Ansom by attacking the ground force, despite parson having Maggie casting disruption spells on them. You could argue that only the Archons being targeted could fight back, but that seems overly complicated and rather silly (which does not mean it couldn't be the case). Taking that into consideration, the evidence seems to point more towards Archers being limited in some fashion as to the damage they can deal to Wanda's group and that it is insufficient to guarantee her death, requiring the direct attack of flying units.
No, any archons in the airspace would reasonably be capable of fighting back, I agree. They're one giant stack, as far as we know. But sending a Thinkagram to someone wouldn't entitle them to start acting or casting off-turn - perhaps the disruption spells were similar? If someone is concentrating hard on something, you can disrupt them by talking to them, for example.
That doesn't explain the lack of reaction to the air defences, though I don't think they had much left. But consider the fact that the archons weren't obliged to volunteer any services, Ansom was required to ask them to perform actions. So the lack of reaction might simply be because Ansom didn't request any. (pushing it a bit...)
Anyway, with that in mind, one would suggest that if Jillian doesn't get involved, there won't be sufficient flying units on Jetstone's side to do anything serious to Wanda's group, given Jack's planning. He could aim to be the last unit to die and be revived if necessary - they could wipe out all the other dwagons twice before he needs to be decrypted.
djones520 wrote: DoctorJest wrote:
If Wanda can decrypt units not in the airspace the battle should be short and quick. Some dwagons accidentally get stabbed in the head, and then get decrypted on the tower and roast Slately. Wanda should definitly test that.
Jack's statement about Wanda needing to be quick to catch them as they fall implies that they need to be decrypted while still in the airspace.
Or he just doesn't want them decrypted were ground units can get at them.
Exactly. There are a number of reasons why it's bad:
1) We've already established that dead units that fall through are likely to be disposed of very quickly by Trammenis and co, who won't be certain (like us) of whether decryption works across city boundaries;
2) Dwagons on the ground will be susceptible to attack by melee forces; and
3) Dwagons on the ground will mean that Wanda loses her air cover.
It's not necessarily purely due to not being able to decrypt.