Book 2 – Page 30

[fruityjanitor]

Sorry, don't have time to read the whole thread right now, but...

1. Progrock? Awesome!

2. Another possible theory for "why did Charlie tell Hagar to kill Ansom when he apparently was interested in seeing if he could be turned?": Charlie just wants to see if Decrypted in general can be turned (possibly so he can try to get some of his girls back), but he doesn't care what Decrypted he tests turning spells on. So he needs ANY captured, decrypted unit to try it out on. Since there are plenty of decrypted besides Ansom, he didn't care if Ansom died. But, now that Jillian has Ansom captured, Charlie might as well try it out on him.

[Ditto]

3) Charlie has units in GW's battlespace (they had archons act this day in one of the text updates while within range of attacking GW) WITHOUT GW being aware that they were there (We have not seen GW act like they are aware someone has a turn before them).

Silverhorn, I'm not sure I understand your meaning. GW = Gobwin Knob? Where does Charlie have a unit in the same hex as Gobwin Knob? Being 'within range of attacking' probably means 'has the move to reach and engage target', not 'sitting in their hex'. Wherever you're getting that from, that is. The Archons we've seen were stalking Haggar's column.

[atalex]

Jillian's behaviour puzzles me, for as she can be reckless and vengeful, she is usually not stupid. Failure to turn Ansom is most likely not due to the Turnamancer's limited juice, but because Ansom is essentially the creation and follower of an Arkentool. Perhaps Ansom will turn into dust as Wanda is croaked, but even if Wanda survives, the Arkenpliers may be necessary to make Ansom alive again- but said Pliers will then be on a living Wanda in the almost untakeable fortress of Gobwin Knob. It would seem more logical to try take Wanda prisoner with their combined forces, as Slately may be interested himself in seeing his two lost sons returned to a living status, if only to prevent his costly investment in popping them go to waste.

*shrugs* Anyway, we'll see.

I really don't see the reason for this commonly held conviction that Wanda can use the Arkenpliers to dust any Decrypted she wants at any range. After his own Decrypting, Ansom described it as being "popped anew." Decrypted have a cost of zero and are preternaturally loyal to the wielder of the pliers, but they don't degrade like Uncroaked and in all other respects simply seem indistinguishable from ordinary living Erfworlders. At the moment, it is pure speculation that the Decrypted will dust if Wanda is killed, let alone that Wanda has the power to insta-kill any of her minions.

Here's an idea: an Erfworlder decrypted by the pliers has no cost. If the dish can be used to break Wanda's control, then the result is a living, independent being with no upkeep cost. In other words, a free person who is not dependent on the whims of a ruler for his or her existence. If Parson is prophesied to "break Erfworld" and bring about lasting peace, one way to do that would be to make Erfworlders fully independent beings not subject to disbanding the first time they refuse to fight in their rulers' wars.

[Altima]

Here's another idea: isn't it possible that Jillian is flat-out lying that Charlie said to see if Ansom could be turned?

Reminder: It's Faq, not FAQ.

[SteveMB]

Jillian's behaviour puzzles me, for as she can be reckless and vengeful, she is usually not stupid.

She's not stupid, but she certainly has a (stronger than usual) tendency to reject inconvenient facts (e.g. her refusal to believe Jaclyn when she tried to tell her that Wanda was not under a loyalty spell). I can easily see her rationalizing that "we just need to try harder or try a different approach" if it proves impossible to turn Ansom.

[therealkami]

Is Ansom being shifted around inside of the Megalogwiff?

That would be... uncomfortable I assume.

[Salvage]

Yeah Duncan! I enjoy the art for him this strip as well. Great expressions. I am glad Faq is leaving if for no other reason it makes it alot more likely that Jack may survive the coming battle without being decrypted. Always looking forward to the next installment!

[Lamech]

So... lets see, the royals can know Jillian has: not attacked Wanda, somehow got Hagar to throw away units, then took the most valuable unit from the now weakened stack, and left. Sure they might assume that Hagar was a traitor, but I think Hagar has really good grounds to push the issue. The alliance can't really say, "We assume you were traitors, so we're okay with backstabbing you" and still expect Hagar's help.

[gazes_also]

Jillian has done all the heavy lifting for RCC in this battle so far so she is quite reasonable in leaving the boys to sort out the rest of it.
She has prevented GK from destroying spacerock, neutralized the ground column as an effective force by removing Ansom and kept Charlie's involvement more or less secret, and those who do know about Charlie (with the exception of Trammenis, who can be counted on to be discrete) will assume he's working for her not vice versa.
All in all a pretty good turn's work. A number of people will be ticked she hasn't done more, but boop 'em, they'd all be booped without her.

I think she must have had some discussion with Charlie in the past about turning decrypted in general, Charlie would like to get his Archons back and Jillian wants Ansom.
Charlie works well with Vanna so it would be likely that he thinks he can work with her to turn them. J doesn't trust him quite as much as she did before so Ansom is going to be spending a lot of time in the dungeon with Vanna and Jillian.

I think she is actually taking an ethical stand on Wanda. If Jetstone croaks Wanda, she's ok with that and can see that it's necessary, but Jillian will not personally raise her hand against her ex-friend and lover, if they can't croak her, then that's their problem.

It still isn't too clear if Ansom can be replaced as CWL (at least this turn) since he's captured not croaked. GK could be stymied on that one which leaves Parson's plan in trouble.

Taking out the two cities on the way home would hurt GK as we know their forces were stretched thin holding a large area, and they may be unable to re-take them. who cities originate with is not important- it's who holds them so Tramennis won't care if their destroyed as long as they're denied to the enemy. It's a freeby she's throwing to the RCC to keep them from getting too upset at her.

In all of this Jillian has show real skill and smarts in achieving what she wanted without ticking off her sponsors and allies more than was absolutely necessary. A number of Overlords thought they were using and manipulating her, but she came out ahead of them all.

So yes, Spacely will screw up and Wanda will survive, but Charlie still has his turn to come before Wanda can move.

[name lips]

Jillian got what she came for, pure and simple. And she seems to have done it with minimal to no casualties (not sure if the rider of that gwiff died).

She assumes Wanda and her Fate will find some way out of the mess, so no loss for her there. She really doesn't care what happens to RCC2. She probably doesn't really care what Charlie or Transylvito think of her either, so long as they don't start attacking her (and she hasn't done anything to earn THAT).

All in all a very good turn for her. Time to return to Faq and consolidate, regroup, and hopefully Turn Ansom. Then, with him at her side, on to croak Stanley once and for all!


Also, it does look like she's the main character of this book. So far, Parson's been little more than background decor.

[SteveMB]

Jillian has done all the heavy lifting for RCC in this battle so far so she is quite reasonable in leaving the boys to sort out the rest of it.
She has prevented GK from destroying spacerock, neutralized the ground column as an effective force by removing Ansom and kept Charlie's involvement more or less secret, and those who do know about Charlie (with the exception of Trammenis, who can be counted on to be discrete) will assume he's working for her not vice versa.

It occurs to me that Charlie may have wanted his involvement to leak without being directly acknowleged -- the RCC2s suspcions (which he's trying to allay) make it impossible for them to sign him up as an open ally, but getting his foot in the door and letting word get out that he has done so serves his purposes nicely. Thus, the wink-wink-nudge-nudge loopholes in his non-disclosure contracts may be deliberate.

[Hatu]

Re: Charlie's motives - I don't think Charlie said he wanted a chance to turn Ansom explicitly.
I think Charlie wanted Ansom dead, to eliminate the bonus and remove him as a distraction for Jillian.
I hypothesize that Charlie also speculated, in conversations w/ Jillian, that he'd like a chance to try to turn a (random) decrypted unit, to see if it's possible.
Jillian grabs Ansom and uses the "let's see if we can turn him" excuse to get exactly what she wants.

That could definitely make sense, and would explain why Charlie was so surprised that Jillian went straight after Ansom.

-H

[BLANDCorporatio]

Wait. Why?

I mean the dusting part. I know that Parson mentioned that as a possibility (an unconfirmed one), and then there's the thing that uncroaked tend to recroak if the Croakamancer that made them is offed (but again, how do we know this? it never happened on-screen).

Of course, Parson does not know, Jillian does not know, nobody really knows what happens to Decrypted, should Wanda be made to push up the daisies. So Jillian would not want to risk that.

However, it's a rampant item on this forum that croaked Wanda => dusted Ansom. And so I ask how do we know/why do we believe this?

So yes, Spacely will screw up and Wanda will survive, but Charlie still has his turn to come before Wanda can move.

If we're going all grammar politically-challenged on people, may I point out that the name is Slately. James Slately.

[multilis]

"Jillain stupid"... that assumes Jills primary goal is destroying GK. Perhaps instead it is helping herself and Wanda is seen as possible powerful future ally/servant. She has *not* been given much reason to love Jetstone, so similar to Hagar may not mind Jetstone and GK weakening each other.

She makes little money if she croaks Wanda, her backers will think they have already paid for services rendered. She does make schmuckers razing cities.

***

As for GK, they may end up with Sammy as warlord, and possibly Hagger as ally...

***

Caeser may have more ammo against Don over investment in the "wack from Faq". Caeser primary goal may be future with Bunny, and he needs an option that gives it to him, if Don will only retire him to a city then the only option left may be coup.

***

"However, it's a rampant item on this forum that croaked Wanda => dusted Ansom. And so I ask how do we know/why do we believe this?" - in story given as *unknown* (don't remember where), possibly normal uncroaked disappear if their caster dies.

***

May soon go into chaos where unclear who is allied with who. If Parson plays the good diplomat, he may be able to convince certain others that Charlie or Jetstone is the bigger threat and lets make a deal.

***

One last crazy thought, there is a chance that Parson is really an arkentool or Titan and the others misunderstand what those terms really mean.

[ftl]

Wait. Why?

I mean the dusting part. I know that Parson mentioned that as a possibility (an unconfirmed one), and then there's the thing that uncroaked tend to recroak if the Croakamancer that made them is offed (but again, how do we know this? it never happened on-screen).

Of course, Parson does not know, Jillian does not know, nobody really knows what happens to Decrypted, should Wanda be made to push up the daisies. So Jillian would not want to risk that.

However, it's a rampant item on this forum that croaked Wanda => dusted Ansom. And so I ask how do we know/why do we believe this?

It was also mentioned directly by Tramennis, in http://www.erfworld.com/2010/03/book-2- ... 3-page-24/ . That's when people started treating it as fact. (It is of course worth noting that Tramennis does not know for sure either.)

[asparagus]

Also, it does look like she's the main character of this book. So far, Parson's been little more than background decor.

Agreed that Jillian is much more important in this book. The very title would make no sense without her. However I would not disregard Parson. We know from the Hippiemancer that he must take a leadership on this day, (we still have not seen a single nightfall) so this is just setting up the background for Parson's second summoning.

[Danetrix]

Well, when/if the point is resolved, it gets rid of the possibility of plot points around it, like Jillian havingto (instead of just doing so for other reasons) allow Wanda to remain standing.

We currently know that the pliers are yet to hit their cap in:
Unit types decrypted
Number of units decrypted
Distance from their weilder. (Curently, as far as GK. Even a few units out, if the wild dragon taming strategy is still avaliable to go on at this point)
Plus, the units insationable love for their Decryptor. Or,the weilder of the attuned pliers.
Without any peceived limitation, (and assuming the Titans put limitations in, but that's "It's a game" thinking) and the Queen Bee style love for Wanda, one would surmise that dusting Wanda, the weilder, is the only limitation left.

If the units don't dust when Wanda is decrypted, my bet is that they become sideless and attack at will. Raging zombies!

[Danetrix]

Heh, when she gets the fourth Arkentool, making one of her eyes change colour in doing so and the story keeps focused on her even when the battle is still going on without her....

Then there can be Jillian Sue flames abound.

[Ansan Gotti]

If the units don't dust when Wanda is decrypted, my bet is that they become sideless and attack at will. Raging zombies!

I just have to say... that could actually be REALLY cool.

[Reclaimer]

\Another possible theory for "why did Charlie tell Hagar to kill Ansom when he apparently was interested in seeing if he could be turned?": Charlie just wants to see if Decrypted in general can be turned (possibly so he can try to get some of his girls back), but he doesn't care what Decrypted he tests turning spells on. So he needs ANY captured, decrypted unit to try it out on. Since there are plenty of decrypted besides Ansom, he didn't care if Ansom died. But, now that Jillian has Ansom captured, Charlie might as well try it out on him.

Yeah, I think you're right, because of a certain point everyone seems to have been missing: If Decrypted can be Turned, or rendered alive again, then that's the first instance of true resurrection that we've seen so far. You can literally bring back the dead that way, and that's pretty tremendous.