Book 2 – Text Updates 023

[effataigus]

I thought the GK force outmatched the jetstone forces on the ground? Was that previous assessment involving GK's air force or did haggar do more damage than it appeared to?

Which assessment are you referring to? The two that I remember that compared Jetstone's ground forces to GK's were this one:

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -11-07.jpg
and this one:
http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -04-13.jpg

The decision in the first was that Jetstone would win that fight... or at least force a draw with the forces shown. Since then there has been a lot of shuffling with reinforcements on both sides, but most of the strength of GK's side left with Wanda, Ansom, the fliers, and the pliers... meaning that Jetstone should have more than enough to win the engagement. The second more recent one definitely suggested that Hagar+Faq+Jetstone would win, but who knows what Faq leaving did.

I wouldn't be surprised if GK did have another trick up their sleeve though. Ansom mentioned in that update that Jetstone was "more committed to holding the bridge than" he had realized... meaning he hadn't necessarily counted on things working out so well for the decapitation plan. We also haven't seen Sizemore yet. Of course, Ford and the other leadership don't seem to be counting on any unforeseen help.

[BLANDCorporatio]

I have seen it. Pretty good movie. Not as funny as I'd hoped, but enjoyable.

You're dead to me. D-E-D.

You missed an 'A'.

RRAAAARRL!

PS. "LFN" and "G-RAF" are not acronyms

They are now.

[Neko]

I don't even know that hitting GK's ground troops is such a hot idea, even if Tramennis seems to be doing it in a smart way. That column is far less dangerous without Ansom. It's far more critical to concentrate everything on Wanda and the 'pliers. Any other target, save for Stanley himself, is of far less importance. Croaking Wanda could mean the end of all decrypted, for one, saving everyone a lot of work.

It all leads me to believe that Jill's suggestion that Tramennis hit GK's ground column was her way of helping Wanda.

I think it's a great idea - if you just got promoted to CWL and hadn't fought a "real" engagement of any worth in 80+ turns, wouldn't you want a nice soft target to knock the rust off? I have no idea if this even matters in a system based on numerical combat mechanics, but in RL it makes sense to warm up before the big match. It's not like there's a end defined by time (that we know of) to Jetstone's turn. When they're done doing all the stuff they want to do they end turn.

Also, they get a shot at leveling up some warlords. Additional WL levels + Healomancy + flyers back at Spacerock = stronger flying armada to attack Dwagons.

[gazes_also]

Kinda bummed that Ford (probably) won't have a chance to enact his plan.

Ford may get a chance to enact his plan, but it's unlikely it will succeed. With multiple high-value targets Ford had a chance of feinting to one and hitting another. With only one his tactics are being dictated for him. It's likely we will see an opening appear for GK to strike at a blindsided Tramennis, even to the point of being within sword-striking distance, but this will prove to be a ruse.

[Ditto]

Some of the emphasis folks brought up about the term 'repopped' in response to the last text update got me thinking about how applicable 'brainwashed' - or 'fanaticism' - is when talking about decrypted units. When you appear on your first turn, you're handed a little notecard with your lines that you need to recite for the rest of your life - "Long live Haggar! Pants for the pants throne! Wabo!", rinse, repeat. Being repopped after being croaked - that's dead, wiped out, ended - is just getting a new cue card. It's a little bit confusing since you have your original cue card in your pocket and you know your old lines pretty well, but really it's the exact same level of devotion that every normally-popped dude has on his popping day. I would think things are much more mixed up for turned units like Duncan who still have their cue cards stapled to the back of their current one.

[rughat]

What is what it is like when a unit changes loyalty by choice? We've seen references to it happening - but we've never actually seen a unit turn. Until that happens, the question of free will can't be answered. It is through acting against the will of those who control you that you assert your own will.

[Angband]

"No, the invaders in his airspace were his problem."

Looks like Tremennis is going to play Space Invaders.

[gazes_also]

Some of the emphasis folks brought up about the term 'repopped' in response to the last text update got me thinking about how applicable 'brainwashed' - or 'fanaticism' - is when talking about decrypted units. When you appear on your first turn, you're handed a little notecard with your lines that you need to recite for the rest of your life - "Long live Haggar! Pants for the pants throne! Wabo!", rinse, repeat. Being repopped after being croaked - that's dead, wiped out, ended - is just getting a new cue card. It's a little bit confusing since you have your original cue card in your pocket and you know your old lines pretty well, but really it's the exact same level of devotion that every normally-popped dude has on his popping day. I would think things are much more mixed up for turned units like Duncan who still have their cue cards stapled to the back of their current one.

I like your analogy, but for the decrypted, they are aware of their old life as something vile and horrible from which they have been liberated to a new wonderful existence for which they are grateful and to which they want to introduce everyone they meet - in other words, converts, proselytes and fanatics (picture them in pairs in dark suits going door-to-door... with spears: Wanda's Witnesses).

The regular turned, well, same crap, different overlord, innit?. Duty compels them to obey, their existence might be better, it might be worse, it's still the same job. They might think wistfully of the good old turns, or think themselves better off; but when there's fighting to be done, they get on with it, because whatever side they're on, a stabber's gotta do what stabber's gotta do.

[splintermute]

What is what it is like when a unit changes loyalty by choice? We've seen references to it happening - but we've never actually seen a unit turn. Until that happens, the question of free will can't be answered. It is through acting against the will of those who control you that you assert your own will.

Maybe Wanda turned of her own free will (or maybe Fate told her to). And Jack seems unusually devoted to Stanley.

[Squishalot]

Just a thought - how did Trammenis not have time to have breakfast as a result of the early turn?

He either:

a) Ate his salad, then walked out to meet Ansom at the bridge;
b) ... no other conclusion.

The early turn change meant nothing - he was stuck in a blowpop, and couldn't eat, irrespective of whether the turn came around at normal time or otherwise.

[CelebrenIthil]

I just wanna point (again maybe) that wiping out the lesser force before Wanda's stack- which could indeed cause the disappearance of all uncroaked units- does make sense in regards to engaging with the units that you cannot use in the fight against the latter anyways AND gaining yourself precious XP which will actually make you stronger for the said fight. (leveling the warlords sure will make the next step easier)
It could turn bad if they lose their warlords and of course there is always a risk for Trem's well-being, but it looks like what I'd myself do in a game before engaging a very important target- grinding for XP on easier targets.
Also, only that way they are certain not to get any trouble from that column in case anything happens. After all, nobody knows for sure Uncroaked will disband- or at least disband immediately- if something happens to Wanda.
They have more chances to destroy the group with minimal losses right now than after a fight with Wanda and co. too.

[million zillion]

Dear Sir or Madam, I do believe that you are trying too hard. May I be so bold as to suggest-

"Jetstone does not rock"?

Obvious or not, I like it -->

Thanks!

Nice, but what you're missing is the right comic panel to match the quote:

Spoiler: show

Technically the term is "card sharp" rather than "card shark". But like misheard lyrics ("Don't bring me down, Bruce!") its is so frequently misused as to have gained a life on its own.

As well as its own game show.

[mindsword]

Nice, but what you're missing is the right comic panel to match the quote:

Spoiler: show

I bow to your creativity.

[Fiendishrabbit]

However, does being decrypted count as stayin' alive?

[BLANDCorporatio]

However, does being decrypted count as stayin' alive?

I dunno. Are the BGs decrypted?

Nice, but what you're missing is the right comic panel to match the quote:

Spoiler: show

Million Zillion, is that you?

[Dancing Cthulhu]

Kinda bummed that Ford (probably) won't have a chance to enact his plan.

That said, I think the prior Text Update is still vital in giving us a clearer window into the mindset of the Decrypted. We're talking fanatics beyond most fanaticism!

I imagine their could be a scary moment for Trem, but nothing fatal. Some lesser warlords and maybe Antium could fall. But Ford will enact his plan - he was targeting casters first, then archers/flyers and last of all leadership. The first three are out, but he'll have a crack at Jetstone's warlords.

I thought the GK force outmatched the jetstone forces on the ground? Was that previous assessment involving GK's air force or did haggar do more damage than it appeared to?

No, I don't think they ever did. Jetstone started out thinking they had a super ground army and were planning holding them at the bridge long enough for Haggar to arrive and then fall back to the castle.

As it turned out much of the army they saw were the veiled dwagons. When they caught and decrypted Oss and got an idea of exactly what they were facing Parson gave Wanda really bad odds of winning there at all if they gave the RCCI forces a chance to get together (and that included Wanda and the dwagons sticking with the ground army). A lot has changed since then - Ansom is gone, Wanda, the dwagons, Jack and the best warlords are unable to assist the ground forces and Haggar did some damage.

Plus Ford himself revealed that the ground forces were intended only for occupation (I guess in case Jetstone/RCCII forces could counterattack after and attempt to retake Spacerock), not for defeating the Jetstone army.

also, GK has 14 heavies on the other side of the bridge vs. the 3 stacks of heavies (minus warlords would be about 18 units). if the mass of infantry can slow down Jetstones stacks long enough for either Ford or Cpt. Twenty (or both), Tramenis might be in for a rough turn. some bad luckamancy or a chink in his plot armor and he might even get croaked

I imagine Trem has some other warlords in his stack as well. I guess Ford's plan now means they will focus on warlords primarily, but I doubt Trem will be hurt. I think if anyone is in danger it will be Antium.

Maybe Wanda turned of her own free will (or maybe Fate told her to). And Jack seems unusually devoted to Stanley.

Or Parson.

[million zillion]

However, does being decrypted count as stayin' alive?

I dunno. Are the BGs decrypted?

More importantly, if Tremennis gets into a dance-fight, will he dress as Gloria Gaynor?

And on that note, I think that Trem will survive (heh) the attack on Ford's column. He has enough Royal vanity to attack it before returning to the city, but also enough good sense to avoid any unrecoverable losses in the process.

Million Zillion, is that you?

You were expecting maybe John Travolta?

I must say, win or no win, I enjoyed the boop out of that contest. Which reminds me, I should try to uncroak that LolErf/motivator thread in the images forum. I've got a whole bunch of music-related Lols in mind now...

[multilis]

I like your analogy, but for the decrypted, they are aware of their old life as something vile and horrible from which they have been liberated to a new wonderful existence for which they are grateful and to which they want to introduce everyone they meet - in other words, converts, proselytes and fanatics...

The regular turned, well, same crap, different overlord, innit?. Duty compels them to obey, their existence might be better...stabber's gotta do what stabber's gotta do.

Regular units are almost always *killed* rather than turned, even *after* they surrender.

In contrast the decrypted were dead and have been brought back to life. In real life being saved from death like that may by itself motivate above average loyalty. Regular loyalty by itself in erfworld has units happily charging into battles where they likely will die.

While a new convert to any new way of thinking tends to have more zeal, that by itself does not prove lack of free will or fanaticism, being able to change ones point of view is often a sign of free will. Caring about a cause by itself is not bad, otherwise complete apathy would be the highest good.

Being unable to see own faults, own hypocrisy would be more of a sign of fanatic, eg in real life both Bill Clinton and Lewis Libby committed perjury before a grand jury that obstructed a dubious criminal investigation that may have resulted in serious charges. Someone who is more fanatical may judge their party guys action as ok while the other side as very evil.

[mindsword]

antium in danger? His name is Adam Antium and you're thinking he might croak? I just don't see it.

Nah, I suspect we'll see a massacre on the next page. Jetstone will easily destroy them and the worst that could possibly happen to Trem is a black eye.

[Welf von Ehrwald]

Just a random thought:
I'm surprised how determined and limited the Jetstone warlords are in their choice of tactics. They see a infantry battle and want to fight it. All three princes seem to be quite similar in their taste. Old Ossomer and Ansom extensively fought with this strategy. But repopped Ansom deviated from it and developed a pretty smart bluff. Could it be that decrypting does more than simply change loyalty? Maybe it also breaks other limitations and settings, like royal conceit or a sides preference for certain tactics. Ansom was pretty creative before as seen in book 1, but he only chose new tactics when it was necessary. Now he implemented something new from the beginning, even if he could have gone for the classic infantry strategy.