Book 2 – Page 32

[asparagus]

Okay she is wearing it in book 2 but not book 1. So it could be significant or an artistic detail.

[fruityjanitor]

Epic.

Well we all knew Parson would become Chief Warlord sooner or later. I don't think any of us expected such an underhanded (and awesome!) move by Maggie though.

When I came to the forum and somebody pointed out how Maggie actually did it ("Suggestion"'s other meaning in Erfworld), I literally laughed out loud.

[Dragons]

My guess is Maggie wants Parson CW because she doesn't want the new CW to be a decrypted.

[DoctorJest]

Oh the crushing Irony!

[DoctorJest]

My guess is Maggie wants Parson CW because she doesn't want the new CW to be a decrypted.

No. She wants Parson as CW because he won the battle of Gobwin Knob and has she has Loyalty to Parson, and thinks Stanley was "barking mad" for not keeping Parson, and instead appointing the man whom Parson humiliated time and again, as CW all along, and she even said in the summer updates. In those words.

[Oberon]

How is the act of casting Kingworld BS? Did you cry foul when Wanda cast that Aggro spell? Rob has explicitly stated that a caster can cast on someone else's turn after an enemy enters their hex.

Who was attacking Charlie? It was explicitly stated that Charlie was not allied with FAQ or anyone else. And yet he was a part of the casting. No one was in his hex or attacking him, he was safe in his city.

Plenty of other shenanigans have been shown to eradicate the myth that casting can't be done off-turn.

[joosy]

How is the act of casting Kingworld BS? Did you cry foul when Wanda cast that Aggro spell? Rob has explicitly stated that a caster can cast on someone else's turn after an enemy enters their hex.

Who was attacking Charlie? It was explicitly stated that Charlie was not allied with FAQ or anyone else. And yet he was a part of the casting. No one was in his hex or attacking him, he was safe in his city.

Plenty of other shenanigans have been shown to eradicate the myth that casting can't be done off-turn.

I think the guideline (loathe to use the word rule in this debate) is that you cannot cast offensively unless you are actively defending yourself with enemy units in the hex. I am not sure how casting a Foolamancy veil counts or how uncroaking a few thousand enemy units would count as offensive attacks, hence the word 'guideline'. I think you are free to cast spells on friendly units all you want as long as you have the juice for it.

Its Rob's world and he is the only RetConmancer so whatever he does or says is cannon unless he changes it. I'll wait for the RPG where the rules will be spelled out or at least printed less blurrily.

[Fug]

Question 1: Why didn't Ford's leg turn to dust when it was cut off? What if he survived and were separated from it? Would he grow a new one at the start of turn? Would the old one vanish? Also maybe he cut off his own foot given Pres. Ford's shooting himself in the foot during his debate with Carter.

Question 2: Its curious that appointing a chief warlord isn't straightforward- what else do they give the troops besides their bonus? KC, Oss and Sylvia were all decrypted so presumably the highest level one would be best unless units get an attack AND defense bonus or one was more likely to survive than the other?

[Sonic Screwdriver]

Who was attacking Charlie? It was explicitly stated that Charlie was not allied with FAQ or anyone else. And yet he was a part of the casting. No one was in his hex or attacking him, he was safe in his city.

Plenty of other shenanigans have been shown to eradicate the myth that casting can't be done off-turn.

Charlie didn't cast anything. Vanna did, and she was in a hex occupied by the enemy. The fact a Link works between non-allied units is a different rules question.

[Oberon]

Who was attacking Charlie? It was explicitly stated that Charlie was not allied with FAQ or anyone else. And yet he was a part of the casting. No one was in his hex or attacking him, he was safe in his city.

Plenty of other shenanigans have been shown to eradicate the myth that casting can't be done off-turn.

Charlie didn't cast anything. Vanna did, and she was in a hex occupied by the enemy. The fact a Link works between non-allied units is a different rules question.

So you are taking the position that only one person in a link is the caster, and the others are not participants? An interesting viewpoint, but not one which has much in the way of logical support. If it requires a link to even be possible to cast a particular spell, then all the linked individuals are by necessity participants in the casting.

Or who cast the eyebook creation spells? Who cast the eyemancer table? If the answer isn't "all three linked casters", then why not have just one of them cast it? Similarly with Earthworld: If Vanna can cast it alone, there is no need for Charlie to be linked with her. But she did have to be linked with Charlie, and it was Charlie who was the dominant member of the link. Vanna: "Charlie...freed me". And Vanna couldn't even respond to Slately when he was speaking directly to her, but Charlie could.

QED, Charlie cast off-turn without being under attack.

[gameboy1234]

Parson can't save them using tactics from GK. I suspect he will convince Jetstone to the let the column go.

I think you're on to something here. Let them go, have them surrender with a promise to ransom Wanda later (basically the same as your indemnity idea), some sort of armistice, etc. I think this has been foreshadowed. First Wanda speculates (in the text updates) that she went against the will of the Titans which is things are now going badly. She'll be amenable, or even eager, for a change in direction. Also, Jillian advised Tramennis to ignore his father's advice ("Every sentence out of his mouth could fill a chamber pot."), something which he now seems more likely to do.

So the idea of Parson saving Wanda by cutting some kind of deal with Tramennis is likely. This should also help get Wanda back on track.

What I'm seeing here is a developing cadre of people in Erfworld who don't play by the rules. People who are looking for different answers other than "send in a bunch of infantry and hope we win." Parson, Jillian and now Tramennis. It's like a contagion and it's spreading. I think a soon to be had meeting between Tramennis and Parson will be important as those two get to know each other.

[splintermute]

Who was attacking Charlie? It was explicitly stated that Charlie was not allied with FAQ or anyone else. And yet he was a part of the casting. No one was in his hex or attacking him, he was safe in his city.

Plenty of other shenanigans have been shown to eradicate the myth that casting can't be done off-turn.

Charlie didn't cast anything. Vanna did, and she was in a hex occupied by the enemy. The fact a Link works between non-allied units is a different rules question.

So you are taking the position that only one person in a link is the caster, and the others are not participants? An interesting viewpoint, but not one which has much in the way of logical support. If it requires a link to even be possible to cast a particular spell, then all the linked individuals are by necessity participants in the casting.

Or who cast the eyebook creation spells? Who cast the eyemancer table? If the answer isn't "all three linked casters", then why not have just one of them cast it? Similarly with Earthworld: If Vanna can cast it alone, there is no need for Charlie to be linked with her. But she did have to be linked with Charlie, and it was Charlie who was the dominant member of the link. Vanna: "Charlie...freed me". And Vanna couldn't even respond to Slately when he was speaking directly to her, but Charlie could.

QED, Charlie cast off-turn without being under attack.

The standard answer is - "a wizard (Arkendish) did it." In this case, Charlie was under attack - see book 1, page 54 - the linked casters exist as a joint mind (although presumably the thinkamancer is responsible for the "joining" and the "freeing" of individual members). It's not that one person in the link is the caster, it's that every person in the link is the caster. Whatever threatens one (e.g. Slately talking to Vanna; GK flying into Vanna's hex) threatens them all, which is why Charlie was able to attack.

I don't have a problem with the off turn casting - the problematic thing for me is Charlie's ability to link with unallied casters. That just reeks of rule-breaking.

[Reclaimer]

i·ro·ny
/ˈaɪrəni, ˈaɪər-/ [ahy-ruh-nee, ahy-er-] –noun,plural-nies.
1. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.
2. Literature.
a. a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.
b. (esp. in contemporary writing) a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc., esp. as a means of indicating detachment from a subject, theme, or emotion.
3. Socratic irony.
4. dramatic irony.
5. an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.
6. the incongruity of this.
7. an objectively sardonic style of speech or writing.
8. an objectively or humorously sardonic utterance, disposition, quality, etc.

So the whole foreshadowing bit was a red herring, but it was a setup to a Republican getting smashed underneath a patriotically-colored elephant. I'll take it.

[gazes_also]

I just noticed that Maggie is wearing an illuminati pendant. I don't think she was before. But I guess that provides further evidence that she was planning this manouvre.

The bag stashed under the table in panel 3 pretty well proves it, don't ya think? No subtle symbolism required.

I don't understand this recurring idea that Parson is a smart negotiator. We've seen one instance of him antagonizing someone to provoke them into hasty action, and we saw him making a deal with Charlie he is still indebted for. He can't convince Stanley of anything; and yet he is expected to be able to strike a deal with whoever is the apparently most amenable threat at the moment (lately it's been Sammy, Charlie, and now Trammenis) and get them to let GK off the hook as a personal favour to Parson because he asks them nicely. I just don't get it.

[CelebrenIthil]

Parson can't save them using tactics from GK. I suspect he will convince Jetstone to the let the column go.

I think you're on to something here. Let them go, have them surrender with a promise to ransom Wanda later (basically the same as your indemnity idea), some sort of armistice, etc. I think this has been foreshadowed. First Wanda speculates (in the text updates) that she went against the will of the Titans which is things are now going badly. She'll be amenable, or even eager, for a change in direction. Also, Jillian advised Tramennis to ignore his father's advice ("Every sentence out of his mouth could fill a chamber pot."), something which he now seems more likely to do.

So the idea of Parson saving Wanda by cutting some kind of deal with Tramennis is likely. This should also help get Wanda back on track.

What I'm seeing here is a developing cadre of people in Erfworld who don't play by the rules. People who are looking for different answers other than "send in a bunch of infantry and hope we win." Parson, Jillian and now Tramennis. It's like a contagion and it's spreading. I think a soon to be had meeting between Tramennis and Parson will be important as those two get to know each other.

I think there might be a chance for Parson to at least bargain Wanda's safety with Trammenis: his two brothers are uncroaked and might very well disband if she dies. With the chat Trem had with Jillian, sneaking in him doubts about them not being only copies/puppets but his real, sentient brothers, and that maybe they could be turned back...
Might have a slight chance of bargain. At least to spare her for a time.

Oh well. We'll see. From that point onwards I truly have no idea how GK will act since the CW bonus was denied's Wanda's stack and Parson is in charge of fixing this mess...
But damn, do I love Maggie.


I know it's really random, but I felt like pointing how rare it is that there are cool aged female characters in...well, anything. Of course Erfworld being what it is, Maggie might only look aged but same result.
Female characters- at least characters of the main cast- in stories and media are pretty much always in the "young adult to middle-aged" group and good-looking.
Not that Maggie is ugly but she clearly ain't a beauty queen either- she looks like a simple well-aged woman and I love it.
Often, it seems females jump to children to sexy young women and then at some point there are old little grandmas that knit and stroke cats all day but everything in the 40 or 50 to 70 is non-existent. And those middle-aged to elderly female rarely get cool roles of doing anything besides being a family member to another character and maybe getting murdered by villains or shit.
It's refreshing to see Maggie in all her kick-ass glory. Not meaning to belittle them but characters like Wanda or Jillian you can find by the truckloads, but Maggie's a rarer pick.
Sorry for that rant! I can be so random!

[The Old Hack]

I know it's really random, but I felt like pointing how rare it is that there are cool aged female characters in...well, anything. Of course Erfworld being what it Maggie might only look aged but same result.
Female characters- at least characters of the main cast- in stories and media are pretty much always in the "young adult to middle-aged" group and good-looking.
Not that Maggie is ugly but she clearly ain't a beauty queen either- she looks like a simple well-aged woman and I love it.
Often, it seems females jump to children to sexy young women and then at some point there are old little grandmas that knit and stroke cats all day but everything in the 40 or 50 to 70 is non-existent. And those middle-aged to elderly female rarely get cool roles of doing anything besides being a family member to another character and maybe getting murdered by villains or shit.
It's refreshing to see Maggie in all her kick-ass glory. Not meaning to belittle them but characters like Wanda or Jillian you can find by the truckloads, but Maggie's a rarer pick.
Sorry for that rant! I can be so random!

Random it may be, but I nonetheless agree. It's nice to see someone like Maggie kick behind. Though if I may mention one exception to the elderly little lady, Miss Marple should certainly count. Lord Peter Wimsey's mother, the Dowager Duchess, might be another example; she may only rarely have a large part but every time she opens her mouth she is awesome.

[MKBG]

Just because no one else has said it yet...

Ford lost the battle because he didn't have a leg to stand on.

Commence groaning. You may now return to your regularly scheduled discussion.

Edited to add: I almost forgot to add my name to the people who thought that was one of the most kick-ass updates yet! Well done Rob and Xin!!

[Ninjaguineapig]

Maggie used the wrong title for Stan. She forgot to call him Tool.

[Octavian]

Anyone else think Parson's getting kinda thin? He's definitely not as corpulent as he was in book 1...

[Ansan Gotti]

OK, here is my theory for how this will play out. Parson talks to Wanda to get the lay of the land. Wanda tells him about their plan to use decrypted to soak up more arrows. Parson says great idea, I didn't think of that.

But then he says here's how to make the plan better. Have all of the dwagons flying high over the tower rather than the walls. As each dwagon gets low on hits, have it dive bomb straight toward the tower. It's slain before it hits the zone boundary, but the momentum carries it crashing into the tower.

THEN decrypt.

Dwagons in the midst of soft, squishy archers = win. For bonus points, the dwagons manage to cap Slately.