Book 2 – Text Updates 024

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby cdrcjsn » Thu May 20, 2010 2:10 pm

I'm in the Wriggley killed a warlord camp. He mentions that the level 1 warlord was female, and we see him stabbing a female, so that sorta fits.

Storywise though, it makes more sense for Wriggley to accomplish something than not. We already had the viewpoint of decrypted from earlier, so that wasn't much of a reason to present this solely for that.

But what does this accomplish? Is Trem going to be more hesitant about attacking Wanda's stack if a warlord is croaked unexpectedly?

Then again, Rob might just be flexing his writing muscles and wanted to write about Wriggley and this update doesn't mean much in the longer term. /shrug.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby ftl » Thu May 20, 2010 2:30 pm

No, croaking a level 1 Warlord accomplishes nothing, tactically.

Ford's plan didn't work at all. He intended to take the led stacks and engage important targets. That failed - the led stacks tried to get to trem and couldn't. After the leadership was dusted, all the remaining infantry, being unled, attacked, and yeah they managed to inflict some minor casualties - it mentioned that Jetstone lost 1 infantry unit for every 3 that GK lost, and that was in the stack NOT led by Tremennis. And sure, maybe they lost a Level 1 Warlord or so. (I don't think Jetstone's Lvl 1 Warlords are that big of a deal - Jetstone's got plenty of Warlords to spare, and they have plenty of high-level ones, not newbies. Trem specifically picked out his low-level Warlords for this assault so they could try and level, and because they're more expendable.) But I'm pretty sure that this is a flavor update, and that Jetstone losing a level 1 Warlord isn't going to have any sort of tactical significance.

(Though, if Wanda survives, maybe that level 1 Warlord will be decrypted and we'll see her again!)
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby Dr Pepper » Thu May 20, 2010 2:53 pm

Salvage wrote:Graet Update and Im glad Wrigley got to stab something.


Likewise. I had previously expressed a hope that Wrigley be able to serve some key lime pie before he croaked again-- and so it was.

Also: A few years back i wrote a little piece called Fantasy Roleplaying for Beginners. There's a part where i cover the differences between frps and wargames.

me wrote:The difference in the treatment of individuals is simple: wargames tend to ignore them, except where the scale of battle is small enough, and even then they are treated as units, frp games tend to focus on them.


Since about page 10 of Book 1, i've realized i need to add an asterisk here, but now i think i'll call it The Wrigley Exception.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby scotchmonger » Thu May 20, 2010 2:55 pm

I have a feeling this line is going to come into play soon -- "The stack was subject to orders from the Commanders in other stacks in the hex, or from the capital."

It means Parson can directly command any unled stacks on GK's side but Wanda can only command the stacks in her hex in Spacerock.

Once all the warlords in the hex are dead, he can assume command of the whole hex even though he's in the capital. He can also take any leftover stacks in Wanda's hex and help with Jack's plan assuming; a) they follow Jack's plan, and b) Maggie has enough Juice to keep up communications.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby Dr Pepper » Thu May 20, 2010 3:21 pm

Ok, i went back and looked at the page where sticky Trem gets his promotion. And i'm pretty sure that the warlady that seems to be mourning Oss is not the same as the one getting stabbitied by Wrigley.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby gazes_also » Thu May 20, 2010 3:42 pm

ftl wrote:No, croaking a level 1 Warlord accomplishes nothing, tactically.

Ford's plan didn't work at all. He intended to take the led stacks and engage important targets. That failed - the led stacks tried to get to trem and couldn't. After the leadership was dusted, all the remaining infantry, being unled, attacked, and yeah they managed to inflict some minor casualties - it mentioned that Jetstone lost 1 infantry unit for every 3 that GK lost, and that was in the stack NOT led by Tremennis. And sure, maybe they lost a Level 1 Warlord or so. (I don't think Jetstone's Lvl 1 Warlords are that big of a deal - Jetstone's got plenty of Warlords to spare, and they have plenty of high-level ones, not newbies. Trem specifically picked out his low-level Warlords for this assault so they could try and level, and because they're more expendable.) But I'm pretty sure that this is a flavor update, and that Jetstone losing a level 1 Warlord isn't going to have any sort of tactical significance.

(Though, if Wanda survives, maybe that level 1 Warlord will be decrypted and we'll see her again!)


In the Ford update thread I suggested an alternative tactic of putting all the unled stacks on one side of the road and Ford and Twenty of the other. The chaos of the unled attack would have allowed the warlords to hang back and pick targets. Ford had a good idea but was too controlling to not put himself in the lead. Not that it was going to make a huge difference.

It's unlikely warlords stay as level 1 for long. It's level or croak. The overlord and CWL's view would be: if not a duffer, won't croak; if a duffer better croaked.

What's interesting about an update like this is the change of perspective. Basic units on Erfworld are not just game pieces, they have identities and personalities, however limited they may be. About the only admirable quality of Stanley is that he rose from being just like Wigley once, an ordinary grunt.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby HTB » Thu May 20, 2010 4:37 pm

Maybe he'll level?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby oslecamo2 » Thu May 20, 2010 5:33 pm

gazes_also wrote: About the only admirable quality of Stanley is that he rose from being just like Wigley once, an ordinary grunt.


I keep defending my theory that that is precisely the reason why Stanley isn't so bright.

He didn't pop as a fancy prince versed in the arts of war, strategy and diplomacy. He poped a stabber with a very simplistic mind.

Then bang, find hammer, get promoted to warlord to heir to overlord. But his mental stats didn't increase that much.

Meanwhile pretty much every other important character started as an important expensive units. Heirs, mancers, warlords. They probably get a fat bonus to mental stats out of the bat with powerfull minds. They're born smart because they cost extra smucks and are expected to make decisions. Stanley was born cheap cannon fodder that doesn't need to think.

So, what would you do if it was you? One day you're a single minded foot soldier, one month later you're the supreme leader of your faction. Do you think your brain can grow fast enough to grasp the change?

I think not. Stanley just got unlucky with the mental stats as he was born the lowest of lowest. On the other hand, he's a melee machine (able to punch trough Caesar, Transylvitto's ace).
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby Lord Kasavin » Thu May 20, 2010 5:48 pm

Actually, I believe Stanley was promoted to Warlord BEFORE atuning to the Arkenhammer. So, he must have had some distinction as an Stabber beforehand.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby Ansan Gotti » Thu May 20, 2010 6:06 pm

oslecamo2 wrote:I keep defending my theory that that is precisely the reason why Stanley isn't so bright.

He didn't pop as a fancy prince versed in the arts of war, strategy and diplomacy. He poped a stabber with a very simplistic mind.

Then bang, find hammer, get promoted to warlord to heir to overlord. But his mental stats didn't increase that much.

Meanwhile pretty much every other important character started as an important expensive units. Heirs, mancers, warlords. They probably get a fat bonus to mental stats out of the bat with powerfull minds. They're born smart because they cost extra smucks and are expected to make decisions. Stanley was born cheap cannon fodder that doesn't need to think.

So, what would you do if it was you? One day you're a single minded foot soldier, one month later you're the supreme leader of your faction. Do you think your brain can grow fast enough to grasp the change?

I think not. Stanley just got unlucky with the mental stats as he was born the lowest of lowest. On the other hand, he's a melee machine (able to punch trough Caesar, Transylvitto's ace).


I have to say, I am liking this theory more and more over time.

I can see it coming into greater clarity after this update, in particular.

Are stabbers and pikers the same thing, or different? My impression is that pikers are elite infantry, the best you can get without being a heavy or knight.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby HailGreen28 » Thu May 20, 2010 6:14 pm

My mind boggles at how many subplots the authors could write in this masterpiece they've created.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby oslecamo2 » Thu May 20, 2010 7:48 pm

Lord Kasavin wrote:Actually, I believe Stanley was promoted to Warlord BEFORE atuning to the Arkenhammer. So, he must have had some distinction as an Stabber beforehand.


Well, you're right that he was warlord before geting the artifact, but he may have been promoted simply because he had great melee stats. Also the upgrade mechanics aren't very clear. Upgrades could be automatic once an unit gains enough experience.

Enemy warlord is fainted! Piker gained 149 exp! Piker rised to lv1!

What? Piker is evolving? Duh-duh-duh-duh...Piker evolved into Warlord!


If it's a paid upgrade, one needs to take in acount survival of the fittest kinda applies to Erfworld. An unit who survives several battles is probably worthy of promoting. Perhaps promoting a high level piker produces a stronger unit than making a warlord from scratch?

Either way, I can perfectly see Stanley being promoted just because he's damn good at the frontline.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby gazes_also » Thu May 20, 2010 8:47 pm

oslecamo2 wrote:If it's a paid upgrade, one needs to take in acount survival of the fittest kinda applies to Erfworld. An unit who survives several battles is probably worthy of promoting. Perhaps promoting a high level piker produces a stronger unit than making a warlord from scratch?

Either way, I can perfectly see Stanley being promoted just because he's damn good at the frontline.


I would theorize some kind of battlefield promotion that may be unusual but not totally outrageous.
How about:
In a stack that becomes unled due to croaking of its warlord, if that stack survives AND defeats an opposing led stack, the ranking trooper is promoted to level 1 warlord as well as the remaining troops leveling normally.
This supposes that as well as individual XP there is squad leadership XP which would normally go to the warlord, but in his absence confers squad-leader status on the highest ranked trooper.
It wouldn't be a common occurrence as the life expectancy in an unled stack is pretty low, but if one does survive it shows somebody has potential.

Just a thought.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby Gez » Thu May 20, 2010 8:59 pm

Dante wrote:
TheCat wrote:One wonders if the enemy leader that Wrigley speared was named Mint.

Nah. The joke, as before, is that Wrigley has never used his spear. Therefore, Wrigley's spear is mint.

I propose anyway that this warlord was named Mint. Britney Mint.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby Nihila » Thu May 20, 2010 9:16 pm

gazes_also wrote:
oslecamo2 wrote:If it's a paid upgrade, one needs to take in acount survival of the fittest kinda applies to Erfworld. An unit who survives several battles is probably worthy of promoting. Perhaps promoting a high level piker produces a stronger unit than making a warlord from scratch?

Either way, I can perfectly see Stanley being promoted just because he's damn good at the frontline.


I would theorize some kind of battlefield promotion that may be unusual but not totally outrageous.
How about:
In a stack that becomes unled due to croaking of its warlord, if that stack survives AND defeats an opposing led stack, the ranking trooper is promoted to level 1 warlord as well as the remaining troops leveling normally.
This supposes that as well as individual XP there is squad leadership XP which would normally go to the warlord, but in his absence confers squad-leader status on the highest ranked trooper.
It wouldn't be a common occurrence as the life expectancy in an unled stack is pretty low, but if one does survive it shows somebody has potential.

Just a thought.


This theory is awesome. It reflects some historical battlefield promotion, and is sufficiently rare to explain why Stanley's later rise is (to our knowledge) one-of-a-kind. As an addendum, maybe if a trooper displays presence of mind, perhaps showing some very slight leadership ability, no idea how, while croaking an enemy leader's stack, they are promoted to warlord.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby million zillion » Thu May 20, 2010 9:44 pm

Gez wrote:
Dante wrote:
TheCat wrote:One wonders if the enemy leader that Wrigley speared was named Mint.

Nah. The joke, as before, is that Wrigley has never used his spear. Therefore, Wrigley's spear is mint.

I propose anyway that this warlord was named Mint. Britney Mint.


No, no. Surely her name was Violet Beauregarde.

It's nice to be able to finally put a face (and a maliciously gleeful face, at that) to our favorite stabber from the Summer Updates. This is Rob and Xin's way of reminding us: It's the little things which make a difference sometimes.

Edit: Whoops, scratch that part about "finally putting a face". Someone added an illustration to the first Wrigley page since the last time I saw it.
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Postby Grimnir » Thu May 20, 2010 11:04 pm

The illustration was beautiful, the shading was really well done and it is very noticeable with the limited color palette. It kinda makes me miss black and white comics.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby million zillion » Fri May 21, 2010 12:24 am

Thinking on it a little more, this update and the illustration bring to mind a literary quote:

Spoiler: show
Image

Ok, I admit it. I mainly know the quote from Star Trek 2, not from Moby Dick. :D
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby MonteCristo » Fri May 21, 2010 2:38 am

cdrcjsn wrote:I'm in the Wriggley killed a warlord camp. He mentions that the level 1 warlord was female, and we see him stabbing a female, so that sorta fits.

Storywise though, it makes more sense for Wriggley to accomplish something than not. We already had the viewpoint of decrypted from earlier, so that wasn't much of a reason to present this solely for that.

But what does this accomplish? Is Trem going to be more hesitant about attacking Wanda's stack if a warlord is croaked unexpectedly?

Then again, Rob might just be flexing his writing muscles and wanted to write about Wriggley and this update doesn't mean much in the longer term. /shrug.

in a way, i find a bit more significance in him NOT croaking the warlord...
The titan's and wanda raised him to use his spear just once and so he did... whether or not it was a warlord and weather or not he croaked her, the point is that he dealt damage... after that someone else gets in a stab, and another, in the end the enemy falls do to the combined effort... so long as he deals damage his stab was not a waste as his spear is just one of hundreds. It kinda of speaks to the very nature of war; there normally are no big damn heroes, just lots of little soldiers all doing their small part; and it takes all of their small parts to win the war... Say you go to war and and during a battle all you manage to do is injure ONE enemy solider before dying yourself; sure it does not sound like you accomplished much but in a way you saved the lives of every solider that one enemy may have killed in that battle... Did he croak a warlord? did he just injure her? or was it just some random unit? it doesn't matter... the only thing that matters is that with one successful stab he did his part to gain victory for the titans and wanda

That being said, i do actually think he finished off that warlord
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 024

Postby oslecamo2 » Fri May 21, 2010 6:41 am

gazes_also wrote:I would theorize some kind of battlefield promotion that may be unusual but not totally outrageous.
How about:
In a stack that becomes unled due to croaking of its warlord, if that stack survives AND defeats an opposing led stack, the ranking trooper is promoted to level 1 warlord as well as the remaining troops leveling normally.
This supposes that as well as individual XP there is squad leadership XP which would normally go to the warlord, but in his absence confers squad-leader status on the highest ranked trooper.
It wouldn't be a common occurrence as the life expectancy in an unled stack is pretty low, but if one does survive it shows somebody has potential.

Just a thought.


Altough cool, I say there's some problems with that theory:
1-We see a LOT of unled stacks on all sides. SInce book 1 one of Hamster's main problems is just geting dudes that can give orders in battle. If basic mooks automatically upgraded to warlords if none was available, then unled stacks would be a rarity.
2-"Warlord ball" is a extremely common tactic where you stack several warlords togheter for a super squad of death. In that case what happens to squad leadership XP? It opens all kinds of complications.
3-We know that Jillian "evolved" from heir to queen when she paid the rebuilding of her capital. Vinny mentions how she changed just because of that. Also garrison units can be promoted to field units trough money. Both are examples of paying to upgrade units.
4-Finally, I don't recall ever seeing any game working like that, and Erfworld is strongly based on wargames (can only move during your turn, upkeep, stuff just poping and depoping). Units evolving trough leveling up and/or payment is the norm.
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