Book 2 – Page 33

[Glenn]

I'd say it's been fairly obvious all along that Jetstone will have fallen by the end of Book 2 as a direct result of Parson's innovations. It's also fairly clear that the authors are looking past Book 2 to Book 3, and building Faq into a significant foe for Parson. The real question is, not whether Jetstone can be saved, but how much of Jetstone's resources can be salvaged to be used against Gobwin Knob in future books. I don't think it's a coincidence that Jillian and Tremannis happen to like each other. The mutual respect they have for each other makes it easier to have Tremannis join forces with Jillian after the Fall of Jetstone. I expect that some of Jetstone's casters and warlords will also survive to fight Gobwin Knob in future books. And I think it's likely that Vanna and/or Charlie will succeed in turning Ansom to Faq, because doing so will be another major step towards turning Faq into a viable foe for Gobwin Knob.

[Menas]

I'm in the camp of thought where 'ugly' from Parson means something along the same lines of when he got the volcano to blow. As in 'I wish there was some other option, and this will probably mean all of our troops will still die, but it's all we've got'.

Ugly is ugly. If it was a strat that would allow Parson and co. to decimate Jetstone and leave, that wouldn't be ugly. It would be very pretty indeed. If Wanda's force is going to die, then Parson is going to want to inflict as much damage as possible on Jetstone when it happens. But I would still be very surprised if her force wasn't mostly or completely wiped out regardless of what Parson comes up with.

Or he might even be speaking from a salvage perspective, i.e., how many casters and warlords will he be able to save from destruction with Jack's help?

[Menas]

I did come up with an 'ugly' idea on my own though - if Jack can keep Wanda and himself alive while the rest of the force is destroyed, then Wanda can decrypt everything again prior to the end of the turn. If Jetstone thinks everything is dead and moves their forces out in order to prepare an attack for the next turn, and they don't have enough move to return to the city, and Wanda decrypts everything prior to the end of the turn.... that would really suck for Jetstone.

Even if the troops don't move out, having to destroy Wanda's entire force twice might be too much for Jetstone's forces to handle. I'm not sure how much damage Wanda's force can do to the city while in 'defensive' mode though. If they're only being attacked by archers, casters, and turrets, that might be all they can target.

[Guppy]

another major step towards turning Faq into a viable foe for Gobwin Knob.

Jack turning is a possibility as well. And not only is a highly capable foolamancer, Jack is the only character in the land who has personally trained against Parson in his tabletop wargaming exercises. The next book feels like it's shaping up to be Parson-vs-ErfWorld, with only a handful of allies.

[SteveMB]

Has anyone at all used "boop" since the start of Book 2 and the subsequent text-updates? For that matter, did anyone else use boop in the summer updates or at all since the end of Book 1? This is a serious question.

Nobody else ever used "boop". It's not a word in Language - Wanda and Stanley didn't know what to make of it when he was saying it at first. Other swears are probably equally foreign to them, which is why nobody else ever questioned that he switched to different ones. I don't think something like what you're proposing is necessary to explain what we're seeing here.

The basic concept isn't entirely foreign, though; they have other ways of venting ("Titan's testes!") that may carry just the same emotional impact. It's probably not hard to figure from context that these odd words are Parson's version of such comments.

[BCCroaker]

My "ugly idea" is that they ice Slately somehow. Trem said that negotiations for surrender by Wanda would take place before the final attack - might leave the king vulnerable to Parson's kill during a truce tactic - remember they don't know how Ansom was done for, the volcano buried a lot of intel among other things. Anyway, anybody who looks like a cross between the King of Hearts and a radish is not long for Erfworld.
The advantages for GK are obvious - Jetstone shuts down or Oss inherits. I go with the last possibility myself; more drama as the transfer of power breaks down the pliers control of Oss and Trem has to allow a sad puppet to rule or destroy his own side. Meanwhile what's left of Wanda's wing beats it.

[DevilDan]

What's the functional range of the 'pliers? They probably couldn't decrypt troops on the ground from the airspace zone.

But corpses and and non-flying units can fall through... all the way to the ground. If GK units are killed or sacrificed, they'll fall through, to where Wanda -- a falling Wanda? -- could decrypt them and they could fly up to catch her. Is something like that an exploit Parson would consider ugly? Seems possible.

[Dr Pepper]

Ugly idea FTW!

[Firkraag]

What's the functional range of the 'pliers? They probably couldn't decrypt troops on the ground from the airspace zone.

But corpses and and non-flying units can fall through... all the way to the ground. If GK units are killed or sacrificed, they'll fall through, to where Wanda -- a falling Wanda? -- could decrypt them and they could fly up to catch her. Is something like that an exploit Parson would consider ugly? Seems possible.

Even better. Dwagon dies, falls on archers. Wanda decrypts Dwagon. Dwagon eats archers. And casters. And leadership.

But I doubt that would happen. Mechanically, the pliers probably don't work across zones. Story-wise, it's just silly. If Parson says "ugly", he likely means something big.

[Chit Rule Railroad]

What's the functional range of the 'pliers? They probably couldn't decrypt troops on the ground from the airspace zone.

But corpses and and non-flying units can fall through... all the way to the ground. If GK units are killed or sacrificed, they'll fall through, to where Wanda -- a falling Wanda? -- could decrypt them and they could fly up to catch her. Is something like that an exploit Parson would consider ugly? Seems possible.

It's possible that GK has never before ended turn with forces in the airspace of an enemy-controlled city (because they've been conquering cities so easily), and so Parson has never had an opportunity to see what happens if a non-flying unit hops off a flying mount at a time when it is not supposed to be able to reach the ground. I'm thinking, have a warlord buzz the tower and try that. If she reaches the roof before getting dusted, accumulate a pile of dwagon corpses on the roof while meanwhile having every humanoid jump onto Wanda's dwagon, until it's too heavy to stay in the airspace (remember Banana?).

Then every surviving/decrypted humanoid, one live dwagon, and a bunch of decrypted dwagons are on the tower. Slately would retreat to his dungeon where GK can't follow this turn, but at least GK would get to do some damage. Also, maybe Spacerock's magic portal is in a zone GK can fall into, so Wanda and Jack can escape.

Seems like Parson learned two important things today; never argue with someone who's job it is to think and manipulate, and never listen to subordinates, they will annoy you with arguments.

I wonder how long Stanley's been dealing with Maggie...

[BLANDCorporatio]

I for one hope that the ugly idea involves bubble gum and poop.

All right then, two weeks ... enjoy the respite, we sure will be cooking here, trying to new ideas to figure out what next. Or reviving old debates, like the "will Jack turn" thing. The answer is no.

[Roupe]

Jack replies "Certainly sir, quite similar to what we have already started"

[Menlo Marseilles]

Has anyone at all used "boop" since the start of Book 2 and the subsequent text-updates? For that matter, did anyone else use boop in the summer updates or at all since the end of Book 1? This is a serious question.

Nobody else ever used "boop". It's not a word in Language - Wanda and Stanley didn't know what to make of it when he was saying it at first. Other swears are probably equally foreign to them, which is why nobody else ever questioned that he switched to different ones. I don't think something like what you're proposing is necessary to explain what we're seeing here.

The basic concept isn't entirely foreign, though; they have other ways of venting ("Titan's testes!") that may carry just the same emotional impact. It's probably not hard to figure from context that these odd words are Parson's version of such comments.

Oh, absolutely. I just meant that Erfworlders would do this same kind of interpretation whether the word was "boop" or "bullshit".

[Fancymancer]

I think Parson will have Jack veil some of Jetstone's troops as decrypted. Unled stacks can't exactly see stats.

The Jetstoners would only see a spell cast from the general area of the Croakamancer and it would be entirely consistent with what they assume the powers of the Arkenpliers to be, reinforcing the ruse. Parson then sends his few remaining led stats to attack targets of opportunity in the chaos. This plan may be too dependent on real time thinking, but that's also a way GW has won battles.

[gazes_also]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
Why call Jack and not Wanda?

I strongly fear for Jack.
What makes Parson a formidable warlord is not the unthinkable things he is capable of doing to his enemies, it's the unthinkable things he is capable of doing to his friends.

Having said that, his personal priority would be to save Jack, his strategic priority is to save Wanda. the Decrypts are completely expendable, after all they've already been expended once.

By 'ugly' I think he means ugly for GK, as well as Jetstone. He could come up with some kind of 'poisoned pawn' strategy which would make shooting down the dwagons a less than desirable proposition. He might just tweak Jack's plan.

At some point he will have to choose between Jack and Wanda.

I very much fear for Jack.

[CelebrenIthil]

I have high hopes for Parson's plans and everything but....I have a feeling that, considering how the Predictomancy about the event unfolding now was presented, that things are going to go very badly....for everyone. I don't exactly recall the words but I remember concluding that it meant boop would hit the fan in this conflict...

[the_tick_rules]

I hope the next book comes starts soon, I hunger for more.

[Dancing Cthulhu]

End, Issue 1? End? END? Noooooo. Such an enormous cliffhanger, still I'm sure the time will fly by. *Looks at watch*

And all most interesting. I wonder what this ugly idea is, and who it is ugly for. I'm currently reading it as ugly (primarily) for GK - like "it wont be pretty, we're going to take losses, but I think we can save Wanda".

And Sizemore, Sizemore, Sizemore... I wonder if he came up with that himself, or did Janis/Maggie push him towards that mindset?

I have high hopes for Parson's plans and everything but....I have a feeling that, considering how the Predictomancy about the event unfolding now was presented, that things are going to go very badly....for everyone. I don't exactly recall the words but I remember concluding that it meant boop would hit the fan in this conflict...

I guess in a way it has. Granted, units aren't running around like headless chickens but: 1st - the attack on Spacerock has been halted for now, even if Wanda somehow escapes (I assume), 2nd - Ansom, a decrypted, has been captured 3rd - any minute now Parson should start getting reports of GK cities being attacked...

What makes Parson a formidable warlord is not the unthinkable things he is capable of doing to his enemies, it's the unthinkable things he is capable of doing to his friends.

Sounds quite Vlad the Impaler-ish (just replace friends with... well, everyone that isn't his enemy.).

...turning Faq into a viable foe for Gobwin Knob.

I could imagine it, but it does seem pretty far off. At the moment Faq has three fairly secure cities (unless you had lots of powerful flying units...) and has been relying a lot on TV financial support to maintain the small number of units it currently has. Jillian's looting will ease that dependency in the short term, but long term... well, unless something big happens in her part of the world it's hard to imagine Faq with the forces to become the primary opponent of GK, or resisting the kind of dwagon forces GK can amass, as opposed to Jetstone, the most powerful side we've seen other then GK.

Of course I guess there is a lot of stuff that has been foreshadowed. There is the Gobwin/Marbit mystery, a potential coup from Caesar, maybe Trem will becoming king of a Jetstone significantly reduced in power and needing knew ideas since massive infantry armies aren't possible...

[mastigo]

I'm wondering if it has anything to do with Parson's discoveries during the summer updates. Like that flyers can be forced to cross zones if you overload them.

Or perhaps mind controlling an enemy leader

Actually, something to consider: do the other sides know how the volcano was made?

[doran]

I'm wondering if it has anything to do with Parson's discoveries during the summer updates. Like that flyers can be forced to cross zones if you overload them.

Or perhaps mind controlling an enemy leader

Actually, something to consider: do the other sides know how the volcano was made?

Charlie does or suspects.