Book 2 – Page 34

[atteSmythe]

I think that a spectacular win for GK would be mostly bad for the plot. Recent developments aside, GK has an all but overwhelming advantage over everyone else. A bitter defeat would balance things out and build tension for the following chapters.

Wanda is both the overwhelming advantage and the yoke around the neck of GK. If they come out of this fight in decent shape, they'll still be crippled once Wanda finds out what happened to Ansom.

[ftl]

Looking back at Book 1 there was some symmetry in the plot; beginning and ending with a parley leading to the kidnapping of a CWL.
I wonder whether we'll see some similar symmetry here. Maggie made a choice between Stanley and Parson for the good of her side, will Bunny have to choose between Don and Caesar?

It would be in keeping with the 'love is a battlefield' theme that was such a strong element in Book 1.

Just a slight correction - you're talking about Issue 1 of Book 2. Book 1 was "The Battle for Gobwin Knob", started with Wanda summoning Parson and ended with the volcano uncroaking; Book 2 is titled "Love is a Battlefield" and is split up into issues, Issue 1 was "Meet the Jetstones", and issue 2 will be "It's Raining Men".

[BLANDCorporatio]

Call me old fashioned, but that would be more interesting than whether dwagon poop will hit the ground or not.

So you are saying, we shouldn't care about that crap.

*dodges tomatoes and rotten eggs*

Thank you, don't forget to tip your waitress!

[slayn82]

Well, as we already know from the episode of the fight between Ansom and Bogroll, things don't float mid air if falling in the enemy turn, and also that the side not currently having a turn can take some measures to start a fight against an enemy on his range. In other words, if in the same hex, falling allows you to cross the boundary between airspace to ground, granted. Things fall and do damage normally by falling, as long as they are not forced to cross an hex boundary. Since those boundaries are Vertical, that would hardly happen.

Maybe Trammenis is hopping (hop, hop) to be attacked by the enemy forces while crossing the hex so his forces get a chance to do a bonnus strike in case the fliers decide to confront instead of evading, or to at least make them lose uses of special attacks before the main archery attack. And he is the right kind of bait.

On the other side, if he is going to cross the area simply assuming that the enemy can't in any way cross the boundary, due to being a city with distinct zones, and so its safe to cross in most circunstaces, as it's JS turn, well, then he may be caught flatfooted as GK may be prone to use friendly fire to begin the attack.

And Don King to me looks more like he is lighting a candle to god and devil here. He is showing support to the other royal sides, while still maintaining an non royal heir, who possibly would be his favorite anyways, but in the current circunstances he is not willing to be openly hostile to any side. So, if JS wins, he pushes foward the new Prince. If GK wins, he keeps his current heir. ( And if creating an heir/poping units and cancelling it goes like a few old school strategy games mechanics implemented, he could in a single turn trade the incomplete heir for a ton of bats and start swarming.)

Meanwhile, he pushes foward an ally to do his dirty work ( and with the results Jillian obtained, he can get a lot of credit ). Without having to overexpose himself. And if a good opportunity apears, he can take it.

[ftl]

Well, as we already know from the episode of the fight between Ansom and Bogroll, things don't float mid air if falling in the enemy turn,

I don't think the fight between Ansom and Bogroll told us much about this.

It was Ansom's turn, so he could move between city zones. It was inside Bogroll's city, so he as a defender could move freely between zones. Both players in that fight could move between zones at will.

In this case, Wanda is in an ENEMY city and it is NOT her turn. So she should be locked in to airspace - but turns out that's more fluid than people assume.

[pSycHOtic chICkeN]

What if the bat, as a scouting unit and as a simple animal with no preconceptions of how the world around it should appear, had a chance to pierce veils?[...]

No, we already know that a bat can't pierce a veil.

If Jack created both a visual and auditory veil then you would have a point. Jack has no good reason to believe that echolocation is being used. Also a full veil is unlikely. Jetstone knows they are there so they would not believe that the dwagons disappear. More likely the foolamancy will get Jetstone to target the wrong dwagons. Maybe throw off the aim a little.

[build6]

Ahh, well, the opportunisties for intrigue.

I am going with the majority here, Don King will loose the control of Transylvito to Caesar and his lover.

heh, I found myself thinking that "love is a battlefield" is an even more appropriate title if it wasn't just about the love dynamic between Wanda, Jillian and Ansom, and it included Caesar and Bunny as well...

Also, Bunny... I had thought that only women daydreamed about vampires.

Is it just me or does Bunny look really hot in that last panel. A kingdom could well be lost for that woman...

heh, clearly you are not alone.... and you can count me in too *hang head in shame*

I kid you not, when I got to the last panel I was thinking "so this is Bunny" (yes, sometimes I conduct an internal monologue like I'm someone Dr. Evil in a hollowed-out volcano base). Looks like she may not be a minor character after all?

[slb]

No, we already know that a bat can't pierce a veil.

If Jack created both a visual and auditory veil then you would have a point. Jack has no good reason to believe that echolocation is being used. Also a full veil is unlikely. Jetstone knows they are there so they would not believe that the dwagons disappear. More likely the foolamancy will get Jetstone to target the wrong dwagons. Maybe throw off the aim a little.

I'm surprised that you are basing the hypothetical capability of bats to ignore an illusion on the far-fetched assumption that bats in Erfworld would perceive information using echolocation. If bat had this capability, they would have a "special" named "can pierce veil" or "can ignore foolamancy" etc. And we know that they are surely not having this kind of special because they would not be able to view an archon veiling himself. Therefore, assuming a bat would not be fooled by a master class caster like Jack is a bit "ridonkulous" (especially knowing that Jack already fooled hundreds of bats in the same hex).

[splintermute]

No, we already know that a bat can't pierce a veil.

If Jack created both a visual and auditory veil then you would have a point. Jack has no good reason to believe that echolocation is being used. Also a full veil is unlikely. Jetstone knows they are there so they would not believe that the dwagons disappear. More likely the foolamancy will get Jetstone to target the wrong dwagons. Maybe throw off the aim a little.

I'm surprised that you are basing the hypothetical capability of bats to ignore an illusion based on the very far-fetched assumption that bats in Erfworld would perceive information using echolocation. If bat had this capability, they would have a "special" named "can pierce veil" or "can ignore foolamancy" etc. And we know that they are surely not having this kind of special because they would not be able to view an archon veiling himself. So assuming a bat would not be fooled by a master class caster like Jack is a bit "ridonkulous", especially knowing that Jack already fooled hundreds of bats in the same hex.

It's quite likely that a bat can't pierce a veil (or perhaps at the mountain pass battle Jack created an audio as well as a visual veil, anticipating the need to deceive bats). But can a veil be conveyed by thinkagram? I think this would be the first instance we've seen in the book of foolamancy potentially being conveyed via thinkamancy to a distant observer (the other regular thinkamancy users, the archons, have an inherent veil-piercing ability, so they're not really relevant to this experiment).

Does foolamancy alter the appearance of things, or just how your mind interprets what you see? And is Bunny conveying the image from the bat's brain after it's had a chance to interpret its visual inputs (when it would likely be deceived by foolamancy), or before (i.e. directly from its retina or optic nerve, when the image might still be foolamancy-free)? The optic nerve is, technically, part of the brain. The fact that the image is right-side up while the bat is hanging upside down suggests a flipped image off the retina, before the brain can flip it the right way. Or perhaps Bunny's flipping it, or perhaps all scouting images or conveyed right-side up regardless of the orientation of the scout, and Erfians don't have icky things like nerves and goo and ichor inside their heads, or the Titans designed Erflings with properly inverted retinas to avoid the blind spot problem.

Edit: Nevermind - just recalled that TV was deceived by Ansom's disguising the GK airforce as ground troops, which could only have been conveyed to them via linked doombat.

[joosy]

So I've been thinking.. (the beginning of most of my uncouth and unsavory adventures)

The difference between the air space and the ground zone is almost nil, right? The only problem is if you 'fall' from one zone to the other off-turn natural shockmancy comes into play and you are either damaged slightly, damaged severely, or croaked outright.

Extrapolating from the Battle of Dieppe where Wanda lay broken on ground zone facing Ansom in the air zone it may be possible for someone in the air to touch someone on the ground and not 'fall'. (see http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0135.html)

Could the plan be to simply 'drop' yellow dwagon droppings and hope they hit Trammenis and then drop the rest of the dwagons and hope most of them either have 'slight damage' or croak outright? Then have Wanda swoop by and touch each corpse to decrypt it? (assuming that is possible). Jack could probably veil Wanda and her entourage as they flit about in the confusion. If they croak Trammenis then they would could potentially have a bunch of grounded dwagons plus the heavies (hopefully a caster or two) all led by decrypted Trammenis and ready to take on Jetstone's garrison/tower next turn.

But then, it was Jetstone's turn back then so Ansom probably could have gone from the air zone to the ground without the shockmancy penalty. I guess it boils down to can an air unit touch a ground unit in a non-attacking gesture when it is not their turn? And also is the act of decryption a non-attacking gesture?

[robak]

Hmmm, good point you raise there. We know that stuff can be passed along between hexes (battle reports were handed hand-to-hand in Ansoms column in Book 1). So it seems likely that you can poke the pliers through the zone "barrier" and thus decrypt across zones.

[effataigus]

Hmmm, good point you raise there. We know that stuff can be passed along between hexes (battle reports were handed hand-to-hand in Ansoms column in Book 1). So it seems likely that you can poke the pliers through the zone "barrier" and thus decrypt across zones.

Robak... you and several other people have talked about passing notes from hex to hex in this fashion in book 1 and book 2, but I can't remember seeing this happen. Do you (or does anyone) remember where this happens in the comics? I always thought they got messages around by hat.

Thanks in advance!

[DoctorJest]

Yep, throw me in the crowd that says Don King isn't long for the throne. Between his backing of Jillian (and really he's just grasping at straws with her at this point), his recent incompetence, and the impending failure of Jet Stone to destroy GK's air units,

Why is everyone acting like the upcoming battle is some sort of empty formality?

Capable though he is, Parson can lose.

Because there's too much set-up:

The conflict between Don King and Caesar over Jillian
Don's over confidence, ordering the battle to be broadcast to everyone
Parson's being reinstated as Chief Warlord as a major turning point for GK
Trammenis' overconfidence, and Don King's confidence in him

It all adds up to a big sucker punch to the gut coming up.

It doesn't have to be a clear victory for GK, it just needs to deny victory to Jetstone.

The short answer: because GK just flat losing the battle here wouldn't be as interesting. It'd resolve too many outstanding major plot lines and turn Book 2 into a repeat of Book 1, where GK has no cities but GK, Parson is left defending the city against the RCCII, etc.

So there has to be some kind of upset in Jetstone and TV's plans.

[badninja]

Is it just me or does Bunny look really hot in that last panel. A kingdom could well be lost for that woman...

A certain TV warlord is having an affair with her, the real question is can she break from her duty if he decides on what he will think is the right time to turn on his ruler. From what we know, which is nothing, about her views is that she will remain loyal to her ruler. Unlike GK if Parson could take over the Tool would be dead in seconds because he would have few allies and where would he run Parson knows his tactics pretty well. Plus yea I can see why this could happen.

[Carne]

Well, as we already know from the episode of the fight between Ansom and Bogroll, things don't float mid air if falling in the enemy turn,

I don't think the fight between Ansom and Bogroll told us much about this.

It was Ansom's turn, so he could move between city zones. It was inside Bogroll's city, so he as a defender could move freely between zones. Both players in that fight could move between zones at will.

I find this to be an interesting statement. Ansom could indeed move between city zones on his turn, but did Bogroll's tackle *force* him to expend move to traverse the zones, was it a willing expenditure of move on Ansom's part, or was the "gravity rule" invoked, leaving Ansom with the move he started with and letting him traverse zones regardless?

Or did Bogroll croak him while still in the airspace, and all conjecture is moot, since by the time he encountered the boundary he was a corpse/object rather than a unit with move? If Bogroll hadn't croaked him, would he have stopped at the zone boundary? But that brings us back to the original question - where is it, and what happens when you hit it if you're not a flyer or under the effect of a flying special?

[Ansan Gotti]

Is it just me or does Bunny look really hot in that last panel. A kingdom could well be lost for that woman...

A certain TV warlord is having an affair with her, the real question is can she break from her duty if he decides on what he will think is the right time to turn on his ruler. From what we know, which is nothing, about her views is that she will remain loyal to her ruler. Unlike GK if Parson could take over the Tool would be dead in seconds because he would have few allies and where would he run Parson knows his tactics pretty well. Plus yea I can see why this could happen.

I still maintain that the Bunny-Caesar thing was instigated by Don to keep tabs on Caesar, based on this text update from Book 2 Issue 1 (emphasis added).

The court of Transylvito wasn't much of a court, since there were no courtiers.

Don had never trusted them. When he took the throne, he had inherited a few advisers and officiants, of course. But after his son's mistake, he'd ordered them off on various diplomatic outings until they'd all been croaked or turned. Slimy bunch.

He had never popped any replacements. It was a risky extravagance to use only warlords for city management, but it was part of his system. You pop a lot of warlords and you encourage them to demonstrate their Duty. You offer them advancement based on merit. Eventually, if they live long enough and get lucky enough, they might find themselves in a semi-permanent retirement, managing a nice Level 2 on the coast. The prospect made everybody try a little harder, think a little more.

That would have been his plan for Caesar, when the heir eventually popped. But Caesar had made it clear he would not exactly view such an assignation as a just reward. Caesar had made a lot of things clear, including why a Royal heir was necessary. Caesar had Duty and Loyalty in abundance, but he lacked the subtlety and finesse that sitting upon the throne called for. Shame, but what could you do? At least having a blind spot for subtlety made him easy to deal with most of the time.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -03-04.png

[ftl]

Well, it definitely looks like Don King thinks he knows everything about Caesar.

So either Don King is wrong about Caesar and is misreading him badly, or Caesar's getting played by a far more subtle and experienced ruler.

I agree that the latter seems far more likely - except for his recent obsession with Royalty (and thus Jillian), Don has seemed quite competent, and Caesar/Bunny seem like they've been around for quite some time.

[HailGreen28]

Well, as we already know from the episode of the fight between Ansom and Bogroll, things don't float mid air if falling in the enemy turn,

I don't think the fight between Ansom and Bogroll told us much about this.

It was Ansom's turn, so he could move between city zones. It was inside Bogroll's city, so he as a defender could move freely between zones. Both players in that fight could move between zones at will.

I find this to be an interesting statement. Ansom could indeed move between city zones on his turn, but did Bogroll's tackle *force* him to expend move to traverse the zones, was it a willing expenditure of move on Ansom's part, or was the "gravity rule" invoked, leaving Ansom with the move he started with and letting him traverse zones regardless?

Or did Bogroll croak him while still in the airspace, and all conjecture is moot, since by the time he encountered the boundary he was a corpse/object rather than a unit with move? If Bogroll hadn't croaked him, would he have stopped at the zone boundary? But that brings us back to the original question - where is it, and what happens when you hit it if you're not a flyer or under the effect of a flying special?

Ansom could have crossed zones just fine. His death was from the fall he took from Bogroll's attack. He was unlucky (probability, dice roll, whatever), and was croaked by the fall or Bogroll applying the coup-de-grace. Bogroll fell too, "accidentally", that's what allowed him to get to the ground level, but he was only damaged on a lucky roll. The rule about how people and things can't deliberately cross zones off-turn, but can be dropped or "accidentally" fall, applies here.

I think.

[HailGreen28]

Jillian is Erfworld's single greatest tactical genius, because she is invariably successful, while consistently managing to disguise her intentions under the veneer of an "id on legs", not just from her backers and her supporters and her allies and her (fr)enemies and her subordinates and her admirers and her friends and her lovers, but also from both herself and (semi-)omniscient third person observers like us.

Ahh, she's not a Mary Sue.

She's a Mary Tzu.

LOL.

[gazes_also]

[

Because there's too much set-up:

The conflict between Don King and Caesar over Jillian
Don's over confidence, ordering the battle to be broadcast to everyone
Parson's being reinstated as Chief Warlord as a major turning point for GK
Trammenis' overconfidence, and Don King's confidence in him

It all adds up to a big sucker punch to the gut coming up.

There has been too much set-up
It's too obvious.

a sucker punch to who? the RCC or the Parson fanboys?

A loss here could result in the capture of Wanda, the creation of the Queen of the Undead if she croaks and auto-decrypts, or at least a major split with Stanley for using losing the army. GK is too big to be reduced to one city in quick succession, but Parson would be forced to become a field commander. Enough plot for you?

If things go badly for JS then Caesar will think that he has an opportunity to rally support among the Warlords and overthrow Don. OTOH if it goes well, Caesar must know his turns are numbered as CWL and he has to make a move soon.

Don wants Caesar to take a run at him. Why?
Just demoting or disbanding him costs loyalty of the other WLs.
He wants to see who sides with Caesar so he can deal with them too and have a completely loyal inner circle when the new heir pops.

Bunny is the key here, whichever one she sides with will come out on top.

One unrelated point. Parson will still have to account for Jillian in his plans until she passes a point of no return from Spacerock. He doesn't know for sure she won't be back until she is out of range.