Book 2 – Page 34

[Alexei P]

Yep, throw me in the crowd that says Don King isn't long for the throne. Between his backing of Jillian (and really he's just grasping at straws with her at this point), his recent incompetence, and the impending failure of Jet Stone to destroy GK's air units,

Why is everyone acting like the upcoming battle is some sort of empty formality?

Capable though he is, Parson can lose.

[pSycHOtic chICkeN]

What is Benjamin Franklin doing in there?

Also, Tramennis is looking so happy riding that Roo. But, then again, everyone would be happy riding a Roo.

Ummm no. Most people would quickly get sea sick and hurl. The bouncing from horseback riding will cause saddle sores and/or muscle fatigue. Cavalry trained for years in order to minimize the effect. A horse bounces at most a few inches while trotting. Riding a roo would suck.

Also, shouldn't the bat view be upside-down?

Yeah, but everything that hits the retina is actually upside down, our brain just compensates for it. So the bat view should only be upside down only when the bat is rightside up. And ironically, that is only because our brain would flip the rightside up image from the batcam upside down again.

Or you can just say a wizard did it.

Is Bunny channeling the image from the bat's retina, or from its occipital lobe?

Also, Jack said foolamancers see the world as it is, and as how it is seen, and presumably manipulate how it is seen, possibly by influencing your expectations or preconceptions of the world around you.

What if the bat, as a scouting unit and as a simple animal with no preconceptions of how the world around it should appear, had a chance to pierce veils? It would be awesome if the bat saw through Jack's foolamancy, and the TV units wondered why the JS units were behaving oddly, without realizing that the JS units were responding to a veil.

It is also likely that a veil is a visual effect. It changes the way things look. Even if it altered the sound made by the target the veil might not change the echo. Bats can be very perceptive of some things in the dark.

[pSycHOtic chICkeN]

Is it just me or is the Don being really loose with how he's interpreting the situation in an attempt to make Ceaser look bad? Does he really think anyone would be leave hitting peripheral cities is more important than the croakamancer? Tram doesn't look remotely regal. I do agree with the crap being about to hit the fan. And crap means battlecrap and fan means the Jetstone forces...

Don is seeing through bats. Jillian told Tremenis that she was going to hit peripheral cities while they were inside of a tent. Don must either have an alternate channel of communication or he has prior knowledge.

We also have no reason to believe that Jillian is actually going to go sack two cities and then run to FAQ. We know from book one that she is highly protective of information about FAQ. Why does she have her warlord draw a handy route to FAQ on a map in the Jetstone's collection. In book one Jillian is has expert knowledge of all routes to FAQ. Hence she knew exactly how Stanley would get there and also knew a short cut so that she could cut him off. Why the need to look at Tremenis's maps a second time?

If you play small group strategy games you will find that it is often wise to gang up on the player who is in the strongest position. But it is also better if your "allies" go in first. You want to end up as #1 in the end. If the battle for Jetstone is close and nasty it is possible that Jillian can sack Jetstone and also get the pliers. Wanda can not sack Jetstone this turn even if she survives/wins. Haggar should not mind joining Jillian if she needs ground support. It is hard to say how many archons Charley has in range.

It is also not clear whose turn we are really on. If it is FAQ's turn would a break in the alliance end the turn for Jetstone?

[asparagus]

Yep, throw me in the crowd that says Don King isn't long for the throne. Between his backing of Jillian (and really he's just grasping at straws with her at this point), his recent incompetence, and the impending failure of Jet Stone to destroy GK's air units,

Why is everyone acting like the upcoming battle is some sort of empty formality?

Capable though he is, Parson can lose.

It's more that this strip sets everything up so well. And it is Don and Tramennis in particular that are being set up for (being below) a fall. Maybe this is a bluff and that Parson is only going to almost pull some spectacular coup, but that seems far-fetched.

[gazes_also]

I'm thinking double bluff by Rob here.

We've already seen Don throw a party to watch the action just as the Coalition hit the banana skin, and the set up is clearly for a big fall.
And that might be exactly you are supposed to expect.
Same gag twice in the same battle?
Hmmm.

Tramennis does look vulnerable coming up the main boulevard. However, if that is the command group at the bottom of the stack, then that suggests a offer of parley with Tram rather than an attack. Wanda and Ossomer in front line would be a bad idea whatever the plan is.

[ftl]

It is also not clear whose turn we are really on. If it is FAQ's turn would a break in the alliance end the turn for Jetstone?

Allies take turns simultaneously, I believe - so we're on "RCC"'s turn, so everybody in the RCC gets their turn.

I don't know what happens if one member breaks alliance.

I think it's been said that alliances take their turn at the time their latest member would take their turn, so it would make sense that if one person breaks alliance, their turn ends and the alliance's turn continues (since, were they not in the alliance, their turn would already be over, and the alliance's turn would be going.) I don't think we've had more detail, but if anyone else remembers specifics or an example I'd love to hear.

[Dr Pepper]

And the tension is ratcheted up another notch.

[raphfrk]

Capable though he is, Parson can lose.

Well, he "wins" if Jack and Wanda survive. It is unlikely that either of them are killed, though Jack might be converted into a decrypted.

Worst case, they are both captured, and that would probably count as a lose.

Also, losing the pliers but saving both of them would be a lose too.

[splintermute]

Is it just me or is the Don being really loose with how he's interpreting the situation in an attempt to make Ceaser look bad? Does he really think anyone would be leave hitting peripheral cities is more important than the croakamancer? Tram doesn't look remotely regal. I do agree with the crap being about to hit the fan. And crap means battlecrap and fan means the Jetstone forces...

Don is seeing through bats. Jillian told Tremenis that she was going to hit peripheral cities while they were inside of a tent. Don must either have an alternate channel of communication or he has prior knowledge.

We also have no reason to believe that Jillian is actually going to go sack two cities and then run to FAQ. We know from book one that she is highly protective of information about FAQ. Why does she have her warlord draw a handy route to FAQ on a map in the Jetstone's collection. In book one Jillian is has expert knowledge of all routes to FAQ. Hence she knew exactly how Stanley would get there and also knew a short cut so that she could cut him off. Why the need to look at Tremenis's maps a second time?

If you play small group strategy games you will find that it is often wise to gang up on the player who is in the strongest position. But it is also better if your "allies" go in first. You want to end up as #1 in the end. If the battle for Jetstone is close and nasty it is possible that Jillian can sack Jetstone and also get the pliers. Wanda can not sack Jetstone this turn even if she survives/wins. Haggar should not mind joining Jillian if she needs ground support. It is hard to say how many archons Charley has in range.

It is also not clear whose turn we are really on. If it is FAQ's turn would a break in the alliance end the turn for Jetstone?

When Jillian was leaving the city and received a thinkagram, we were told that she didn't know which of her patrons was contacting her, suggesting she's in semi-regular contact with both Don and Charlie - she probably gave Don a status report after leaving Tramennis' camp.

Duncan didn't draw a route to Faq - he drew a route to the two ex-JS GK cities that were in the general direction of Faq. She has expert knowledge of all the mountain routes to Faq, but they're far from the mountains, and deep in JS territory - they'd need to consult Tramennis' maps to determine the best way to get back to the mountains.

I'm pretty sure Jillian is sincere in her desire to avoid a confrontation with Wanda (or at least several of us hope that she is, because it will keep her out of much of this chapter). Going back and sacking the Jetstone capital to obtain the pliers would require either a confrontation with Wanda, or a confrontation with the fact of Wanda's death at the hands of Jetstone, caused by her. I don't think she's eager for either possibility, not when she has her shiny blond new toy to play with.

[Ansan Gotti]

Hey, just noticed the triangle necklace around Bunny's neck. Guess it's a common feature of Thinkamancers.

[gazes_also]

Capable though he is, Parson can lose.

Well, he "wins" if Jack and Wanda survive. It is unlikely that either of them are killed, though Jack might be converted into a decrypted.

Worst case, they are both captured, and that would probably count as a lose.

Also, losing the pliers but saving both of them would be a lose too.

And if Wanda ends up being captured by Charlie?

A loss that bumps Parson out of GK would be no bad thing. The cycle of ~ abuse by Stanley/save Stanley's butt/more abuse by Stanley ~ is starting to wear thin.
The opportunity of him seeing more of Erfworld first hand would be a welcome relief.

[shneekeythelost]

Yanno, something I was pondering about how Don King is really a bit more clever than people take him to be...

Right now, he's got no chips in this fight. All his chips flew out with Jillian. Which is why Don isn't too worried about the eventual outcome of this fight. A bit short-sighted, perhaps, but understandable. If GK gets killed, with significant losses on Jetstone's part, all the better for Don King. If GK wins, but looses Wanda, that's about the best thing that could happen for Don King. Because with Wanda gone, you loose at least a full third, if not more, of GK's fighting force. Gone in one turn. Plus Jetstone looses, which makes TV one of the most powerful sides left, and a weakened GK, and no reason for Jillian to hold back against GK anymore. If Jillian can turn Ansom, she'll have a level 9 Warlord to lead her forces. With TV and the hired help of Charlie to back them, GK would be in a *VERY* tight spot.

So, as far as Don King is thinking, it's win/win.

But it gets even better, thanks to that Bat. You see, the biggest advantage Parson has? He's comming up with stuff no one has thought of before. He's trying new tactics. This is the guy who is doing the Mass Queens of Erfworld. Doing things no one ever thought of doing before, and because of that unpredictability, it is surprisingly effective.

To use more Starcraft II terminology, HD defines a 'cheese build' as 'one which works amazingly well if your opponent is not prepared for it, but will cost you the game if he is'. Things like 'proxy pylon/bunker', '6 pool ling rush', and 'mass roach' (pre nerf).

The crippling weakness to these sorts of things, which work amazingly well against opponents who don't know what you are up to, is that once your opponent knows what you are doing, he also can counter it, and leave you up an unsanitary tributary without a means of propulsion.

To take it a step further, the next thing HD says about cheese builds is: "The counter to cheese is scouting". Meaning if you see that he has only 6 drones and a spawning pool already on the way, you know he's gonna send in 6 lings when it gets done. So you drop a bunker at your choke point and put in some marines. Stops the early rush cold, then your marines go into his base and take out the drones, and you win.

That bat could well be providing Don King with the information necessary to counter Parson's tactics. Sure, Jetstone will probably get hurt a LOT more than they think, but TV will be apprised of these new tactics, and come up with the counters.

[Alexei P]

Capable though he is, Parson can lose.

Well, he "wins" if Jack and Wanda survive. It is unlikely that either of them are killed, though Jack might be converted into a decrypted.

Worst case, they are both captured, and that would probably count as a lose.

Also, losing the pliers but saving both of them would be a lose too.

I agree with this. This doesn't have to end in a clear victory or defeat on either side. I think we're more likely to see a mixed result.

I think that a spectacular win for GK would be mostly bad for the plot. Recent developments aside, GK has an all but overwhelming advantage over everyone else. A bitter defeat would balance things out and build tension for the following chapters.

[Altima]

So, if we linked a Luckamancer with a Healomancer, could we have Erfworld's first dropship army?

The reason why the whole death-from-above concept Parson has is because of many factors. Most flyers we have seen are either support units--like Archons, who can fight, but do best in the support area--or flying knights, like unipegataurs and skanks. Transylvito can do mean things with their flying warlords, but warlords are expensive. As are the other flyers.

But for perhaps the first time in the area's history, there are two different factions with large amounts of aggressive, easily replacable air units. Stanley can tame a few dwagons a turn and Jillian managed to pull how many megalogwiffs out of her ass from three cities? Granted, she had huge financial support and a turnamancer, but still.

As to why everyone thinks that GW is going to 'win' in the coming battle, it's a combination of factors. First, the large fanbase for Jack and/or Wanda certainly do NOT want to see their pet character croak. Second, we've pretty much seen GW do nothing but lose 'on screen' since tBfGK. Their only on-page victory so far has been a little scouting exercise when they captured Ossomer, and even then they suffered some pretty hefty setbacks. On the other hand, the RCC has pretty much pulled an Ansom and managed to ass-pull their way to victory with few or no losses. So people are hoping that their overconfidence will by crammed down their throat.

Lastly, I know archons glow, but should they be glowing that brightly? Are they messing with the thinkamancy or something?

[Alexei P]

Wanda can not sack Jetstone this turn even if she survives/wins.

Mmmmmmm... I wouldn't be so sure. If decryption across city zones is allowed (we don't know if it is or not), you could use the "drop and decrypt dwagon corpses" tactic to assume control of the tower (you'd need to drop a lot of dwagon corpses on the tower parapet, then start decrypting everything that ends up croaking in the resulting chaos). Once you've secured the tower, you send in Sizemore through the magic kingdom portal (we've seen casters use the portals outside of turn), and wreck Slatey's garrison from within. Badabing, no more Spacerock.

[Dr Pepper]

Haha, I just realized that the TV logo with the bat on red is actually the Bacardi ron logo...
Nice idea!

Oh, that was shown early on in Book 1.

[pSycHOtic chICkeN]

Wanda can not sack Jetstone this turn even if she survives/wins.

Mmmmmmm... I wouldn't be so sure. If decryption across city zones is allowed (we don't know if it is or not), you could use the "drop and decrypt dwagon corpses" tactic to assume control of the tower (you'd need to drop a lot of dwagon corpses on the tower parapet, then start decrypting everything that ends up croaking in the resulting chaos). Once you've secured the tower, you send in Sizemore through the magic kingdom portal (we've seen casters use the portals outside of turn), and wreck Slatey's garrison from within. Badabing, no more Spacerock.

I am not convinced the dwagons can fly above the tower parapet. I am also not convinced that the magic kingdom portals can be used to launch offensive invasions. Could Parson run through the portals and drop in over Slately's head. Maybe not completely cross the portal, they just need Parson's arm and a new sword. Maybe a pike so that Parson's arm is never in any danger.

Actually if portals can be opened in enemy territory why not just pull Wanda and Jack out?

[skychrome]

Haha, I just realized that the TV logo with the bat on red is actually the Bacardi ron logo...
Nice idea!

Oh, that was shown early on in Book 1.

Oh I am sure it was. It's just me having missed lots of details on the way. And it is really admirable how some people here discover all those cool references that are not as obvious as the Bacardi one!

[Glenn]

Why do people think a massive victory for GK at Jetstone's expense vindicates Caesar and discredits Don? Don and Vinnie were the ones who is arguing that GK is such a major threat that Transylvito has to adopt drastic changes like allying with Faq. It's Caesar who has made the mistake of underestimating GK, and claiming they don't need Faq. If Parson crushes Jetstone, doesn't that vindicate Don and Vinnie, and also show that Jillian's decision to withdraw her forces before they were destroyed was a wise one?
Depending on exactly how Jetstone falls, Caesar may be able to argue that Jillian could have saved Jetstone if she hadn't left the battle when she did. But if Caesar could never have anticipated the radical innovations that Parson will use to achieve victory, then it's rather hypocritical of him to claim that Jillian should have known in advance that Jetstone would need her help to defeat Wanda's force. And for him to try to break Transylvito's alliance with Faq after a GK victory, at the very moment when Transyvito needs every ally it can get, would be a foolish move that I think would vindicate Don and Vinnie's judgment that Caesar is not qualified to rule. Trying to ally with Gobwin Knob would also be misguided in my view. Does anyone think Stanley would treat Caesar as a equal? Stanley, after all, is a Toolist. There is no place for an independent Transylvito in Stanley's vision of the future.

[StClair]

Jillian doesn't have "judgment". What she has is (barely examined) wants and desires, which she attempts to gratify with little thought of the consequences. Even as a Queen, she's still pretty much an id on legs (and/or gwiffonback).