Book 2 – Page 34

[Spot]

Jillian doesn't have "judgment". What she has is (barely examined) wants and desires, which she attempts to gratify with little thought of the consequences. Even as a Queen, she's still pretty much an id on legs (and/or gwiffonback).

True.

[Sygerrik]

Argh, as much as I like Don King, I'm wondering how he lasted this long as a Ruler. His political instincts are terrible; part of that might be the culture of informality he encourages, but any leader in wartime needs to have incredibly tight information control. Doubly so if he understands that there are volatile elements among his leadership that he cannot simply expunge.

Read a newspaper from WWII sometime, libraries have 'em on microfiche or microfilm. Don not only made a colossally bad decision backing Jillian, he doesn't have a consistent approach to fighting this war. Caesar demonstrated pretty well how powerful doombats can be in large numbers, and they look like the kind of cheap units that can be popped at a prodigious rate. Don needs to be replenishing his depleted military, not focusing on popping a (presumably very expensive) heir.

[Chit Rule Railroad]

Trying to ally with Gobwin Knob would also be misguided in my view. Does anyone think Stanley would treat Caesar as a equal? Stanley, after all, is a Toolist. There is no place for an independent Transylvito in Stanley's vision of the future.

Stanley doesn't have a vision; he has insecurity - about both his prowess and his righteousness. I think he would be flattered if a bad-ass like Caesar showed him respect and wanted to ally with him and would see it as a public relations coup. Though whether he would go for it, and the timing of the inevitable betrayal, would probably hinge on Wanda's influence.

Also, Stanley is usually not a micro-manager.

[Zeal]

Trying to ally with Gobwin Knob would also be misguided in my view. Does anyone think Stanley would treat Caesar as a equal? Stanley, after all, is a Toolist. There is no place for an independent Transylvito in Stanley's vision of the future.

Stanley doesn't have a vision; he has insecurity - about both his prowess and his righteousness. I think he would be flattered if a bad-ass like Caesar showed him respect and wanted to ally with him and would see it as a public relations coup. Though whether he would go for it, and the timing of the inevitable betrayal, would probably hinge on Wanda's influence.

Also, Stanley is usually not a micro-manager.

I'd disagree about Stanley not being a micro-manager. Like most control freaks Stanley is a micro-manager which is why his subordinates need to subtly nudge him in the right direction in decisions that regard their jobs. A more effective leader delegates and then has to find an appropriate balance between subordinate autonomy, control and oversight. Too much autonomy and you run the risk of your subordinate performing actions that don't suit your goals (eg. the relationship between Jillian and Transylvito), too much control and the leader wastes time trying to do his subordinate's job (eg. how Stanley behaved in Book 1), too much oversight and the leader wastes time peering over the shoulder of his subordinate, too little oversight and the leader leaves himself blind.

As I see it, Stanley is an ineffective leader because he's unable to delegate properly as that would involve him ceding control of a situation. It's this type of behaviour that leads to Stanley trying to micro-manage armies. What makes this so bad for GK is that Stanley isn't a particularly good general and isn't strategically minded. He's caught up in the small picture outcomes like one or two dwagons lost rather than the large picture goals.

[Geordy]

Hey guys! My first post after a long time of lurking and passively enjoying this tremendous Web-Comic. Good work, Rob and Xin, I hope you continue for years and centuries yet to come.

Now please, pretty pleeease, do not let Jetstone troops get hit by falling stuff like dragons. This would be dumb. Why? Because regardless of what other users said about this situation being totally new to the participating armies archers should know about the fact that something they hit in the air comes down falling afterwards. This fact was presented by Jack as something as obvious that every little kid in Erfworld knows.

To anyone wishing for this to happen please take into consideration that Wanda's side cant act. Trem can hop around under thousands of big fat dragons (so funny ) as long as no arrows fill the air no dragon is going to fall.

Additionally I heavily question the mechanic of falling things able to cross hex borders. Because this would be just inconsistent. And if there is something that breaks the immersion into such a beautiful world then it is logic or rules that only apply when they come in handy. Why am I saying this? We clearly saw arrows not able to cross hex borders that were sent after the small force that captured Ossomer at the bridge. The arrows simply stopped midair being held back by some invisible barrier (the hex border). Obviously this has nothing to do with the physics we are all used to.

Now to the fall of the dragons. I expect them to being stopped at the hex border, too, exactly like the jetstone arrows. Regardless of how the adjacent hexes are organised, above or next to each other. This means before the dead dragon corpses can crush any Jetstone troops under them they are being stopped by the hex border causing no harm whatsoever. You have a hard time imagining hovering dragon corpses in midair you say? Well, so do I with arrows. But this is Erfworld physics and it should be damn omnipresent.

To sum it up there are two good reasons for the dragon fall theory to not come true: 1) Erfworld physics doesnt allow it. 2) Even if it did by some crazy explanation, Jetstone troops would CERTAINLY know about it. This would be Archery 101, that if you hit something in the air above you watch your head. BTW in a battle not within a city, little archers have to be even more careful about where the battlecrap is coming down for it doesnt have to cross a hex border.

[raphfrk]

Additionally I heavily question the mechanic of falling things able to cross hex borders. Because this would be just inconsistent.

They can't cross hex boundaries. Objects will bounce off hex boundaries even when falling. The issue here is that city zones are stacked on top of each other.

The "rulemakers"/Titans (or just the RL authors ) needed to make a judgement call when setting up the city zones. They could have had airspace start from say 10m above the ground. This would mean that falling units would hit the boundary and stop. All the corpses would hover 10m above the ground after being killed until GK's next go and then disappear. This would have allowed some of the Archons to stand on the boundary during the initial battle.

Another option would be to have the boundary flush with the ground but just as solid as the 10m barrier. If a flying unit drops to the ground, it can still walk, but there is an impenetrable barrier between it and any units that are actually on the ground, so it can't attack them.

We clearly saw arrows not able to cross hex borders that were sent after the small force that captured Ossomer at the bridge. The arrows simply stopped midair being held back by some invisible barrier (the hex border). Obviously this has nothing to do with the physics we are all used to.

Yes, but there is no formal ground vs airspace boundary. The hex boundaries are vertical walls, the airspace/ground boundary is potentially a horizontal floor, but kind of morphs in order to take into account any units on the ground.

I wonder if the positions were reversed if there is still shockamancy. For example, if a unit jumped from the walls onto a friendly flying unit, would that count as a forced zone change? Does the unit have to apply an upwards pressure when off the ground in order to transition to the airspace zone. Alternatively, maybe a jumper can force a flying unit into the ground in order to trigger a zone change for the flying unit. If a heavy unit jumped and grabbed a flying unit, it wouldn't be able to keep both in the air. Maybe that would also count as a zone change for the heavy unit (actually two of them).

To sum it up there are two good reasons for the dragon fall theory to not come true: 1) Erfworld physics doesnt allow it. 2) Even if it did by some crazy explanation, Jetstone troops would CERTAINLY know about it. This would be Archery 101, that if you hit something in the air above you watch your head. BTW in a battle not within a city, little archers have to be even more careful about where the battlecrap is coming down for it doesnt have to cross a hex border.

I agree that there are alternative rules, but that isn't what they went with. It seems for a flying unit, toughing the ground counts as a zone change.

In other games, doing something like this could be an instant kill effect. Also, you could have a rule that units cannot do anything intentionally that would cause an airspace to ground zone change.

[Skyler]

Wonder who Bunny supports. Hasn't spoken, hard to read.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Why is everyone acting like the upcoming battle is some sort of empty formality?

Capable though he is, Parson can lose.

Well in my case it's because the Don got so smug that he just drew upon himself a big fat karmic bulls-eye.

So yeah, it's just wishful thinking.

[valce]

Prediction: Don will regret having that bat's view streamed into the heads of every person present.

-V

[gazes_also]

Jillian doesn't have "judgment". What she has is (barely examined) wants and desires, which she attempts to gratify with little thought of the consequences. Even as a Queen, she's still pretty much an id on legs (and/or gwiffonback).

True.

False

[splintermute]

Jillian doesn't have "judgment". What she has is (barely examined) wants and desires, which she attempts to gratify with little thought of the consequences. Even as a Queen, she's still pretty much an id on legs (and/or gwiffonback).

True.

False

Jillian is Erfworld's single greatest tactical genius, because she is invariably successful, while consistently managing to disguise her intentions under the veneer of an "id on legs", not just from her backers and her supporters and her allies and her (fr)enemies and her subordinates and her admirers and her friends and her lovers, but also from both herself and (semi-)omniscient third person observers like us.

[gazes_also]

Jillian is Erfworld's single greatest tactical genius, because she is invariably successful, while consistently managing to disguise her intentions under the veneer of an "id on legs", not just from her backers and her supporters and her allies and her (fr)enemies and her subordinates and her admirers and her friends and her lovers, but also from both herself and (semi-)omniscient third person observers like us.

Not invariably successful but a pretty high rate of success.
Can't remember where I heard it but it fits pretty well "Good chess players think 6 moves ahead. The great ones only think one move ahead - the right one."

[haviel]

Well, In regards to Jill. She's got two rulers breathing down her throat, so her plans are gonna have to be a couple moves ahead or she won't last very long. There's only so much they'd take before just stamping her out and declaring the whole thing a wash. I think that the way Jill pulled this off is exactly what she needed to do to keep her backers (though slightly pissed) with her and being able to make her own decisions.

The coming battle isn't an empty formality either, Whoever wins doesn't really matter as much as what the characters go through. It doesn't matter if Parson pulls a stunning win from this battle yet again, he's already lost this battle, because he had to fight it in the first place.

[HandofShadows]

Not invariably successful but a pretty high rate of success.
Can't remember where I heard it but it fits pretty well "Good chess players think 6 moves ahead. The great ones only think one move ahead - the right one."

Naw Jill is just lucky and good in the torture chamber and on the carpet. Which is what keeps her alive when her luck runs out. Sooner or later she is going to have to wake up though and change. Stanley is acting better then she is at the moment and that's not easy to do.

As for old King Tuby, I think things are going to blow up in his face big time (and then blow up in Jillians as a result)

[kagato23]

Additionally I heavily question the mechanic of falling things able to cross hex borders. Because this would be just inconsistent.

The problem here is that we've basically been told it's possible. As Jack said, a falling thing falls. It's not counted as an "attack" thus it's neutral. We've seen that with the arrows on the bridge as well, the ones in the river could cross boundaries because they no longer counted as an attack. The falling object is considered neutral for boundary purposes, and as we've seen, this exploit comes at a such a huge margin of risk (2/3 chance of unit being useless, and even if you get lucky your still injured to some extent) that without croakamancy involved it would have just been an unusual suicide for GK.

Not to mention, when you consider the chapters title...

[multilis]

"As for old King Tuby, I think things are going to blow up in his face big time (and then blow up in Jillians as a result)"

We could still be in for a surprise. Tuby may be good political surviver, he may if needed become less 'Jillian/royal friendly' himself in order to stay in sync with his side.

There so far is very little TV directly involved in any big fight, that may be for strategic reason so that he can easily shift alliances whenever needed.

[Lamech]

The problem here is that we've basically been told it's possible. As Jack said, a falling thing falls. It's not counted as an "attack" thus it's neutral. We've seen that with the arrows on the bridge as well, the ones in the river could cross boundaries because they no longer counted as an attack. The falling object is considered neutral for boundary purposes, and as we've seen, this exploit comes at a such a huge margin of risk (2/3 chance of unit being useless, and even if you get lucky your still injured to some extent) that without croakamancy involved it would have just been an unusual suicide for GK.

We've seen attacks cross-hex boundaries before off turn. Basically when ever its "natural"-gravity, smoke dispersion, current- stuff goes right over hex borders.

I suspect that battlecrap and arrows "stop" as soon as they hit the ground or a unit on the ground. And then gravity takes over. So basically no momentum or speed. So an arrow? Not gonna do much. Acidic battlecrap? Certainly not gonna smash a unit to bits, but it might melt the skin off and crush them under the wieght.

Now please, pretty pleeease, do not let Jetstone troops get hit by falling stuff like dragons. This would be dumb. Why? Because regardless of what other users said about this situation being totally new to the participating armies archers should know about the fact that something they hit in the air comes down falling afterwards. This fact was presented by Jack as something as obvious that every little kid in Erfworld knows.

A falling dwagon corspe? That will crush a unit dead most likely, but dwagons and gwiffions seems to fall in a slow cinematic fashion, so unless the unit is a moron (or trapped)? Not happening.

[raphfrk]

Additionally I heavily question the mechanic of falling things able to cross hex borders. Because this would be just inconsistent.

This is a misquote. I didn't say that , Geordy did. You are quoting my quoting of him .

[gazes_also]

Looking back at Book 1 there was some symmetry in the plot; beginning and ending with a parley leading to the kidnapping of a CWL.
I wonder whether we'll see some similar symmetry here. Maggie made a choice between Stanley and Parson for the good of her side, will Bunny have to choose between Don and Caesar?

It would be in keeping with the 'love is a battlefield' theme that was such a strong element in Book 1.

I wonder if we'll also see some interplay between Slately, Tramennis and Ossomer
The beloved youngest son who is now the enemy and the past over eldest who is now CWL.

Call me old fashioned, but that would be more interesting than whether dwagon poop will hit the ground or not.

[slb]

What if the bat, as a scouting unit and as a simple animal with no preconceptions of how the world around it should appear, had a chance to pierce veils?[...]

No, we already know that a bat can't pierce a veil.