Book 2 – Text Updates 025

[gazes_also]

Interesting that Jetstone is getting another royal heir soon, as is Transylvito and Faq. Perhaps a new generation of CWLs raised on Parson-tactics to give him a run for his money?

Even more interesting that Slately has no interest in making Trem the heir, nor even allowing him to remain as Chief Warlord a minute more than necessary. Not that Trem seems to mind -- he seems too much of a philosopher and strategist to want either job, which is why I still think he'll end up King of Jetstone before the day is out. I really hope we find out what Slately has against his eldest son? Is it just the fact that he is the least stereotypically "noble" of his three sons?

It might not be that Slately has anything *against* Trem.

Trem seems to be happiest not doing battle on the front, but doing diplomacy and back-room strategy. The other sons also look to be better fighters and more imposing, though not as good tacticians. Slately's happy letting the other sons get the glory and the fights they want, Trem's fine with that - why would the fact that everyone gets the roles they want mean Slately has something *against* Trem?

Tram's gifts are diplomacy and deal-brokering. A diplomat who is royal is an advantage, but an heir is too much to risk in a negotiation, far too much leverage if he's taken hostage.

[name lips]

We still don't know how succession works. Trem seemed pretty sure earlier that as soon as Wanda killed King Slately that he and his men would vanish and their whole side would be destroyed. I don't see any reason that it would be different if Slately is killed during this battle.

So it seems to follow that if Jetstone as a side is going to endure, and if Trem is going to live, that Slately will also have to survive this turn.

Remember it IS their turn, and they can simply leave the hex if things are going sour.

So...

I predict all primary characters surviving: Wanda, Jack, Slately, and Trem. But Spacerock will be in GK's hands during Jetstone's turn.

How will they conquer Jetstone? Well... we already suspect Parson will exploit the "falling" rules to change zones. And we just learned that the Jetstone Garrison or "Atrium" is covered with huge skylights. We also know that all the melee units that can't attack fliers are packed into the Atrium. And we know that Wanda can, once those melee units are dead, Decrypt them. And we also know that once the Garrison falls, the city will be owned by GK. Once it is owned by GK, all GK's units can move between zones freely even though it isn't their turn.

[gameboy1234]

My theory, btw, as people have been using these threads to speculate, is that Parson will in fact pull off the amazingly good win. Why do I think they'd do this, making them "unstoppable" again?

I like your analysis. However, I think Parson is going to squeak by here at Jetstone. Once Wanda is safe, GK can start to re-build the steamroller. But with some cities missing (taken by Jillian) and a big force destroyed (land and most of the dwagons) it'll take time for GK to rebuild.

Meanwhile, some fence sitters will join the RCC II as you speculate. This will end up making the fight more fair. Then we'll see some scroll of plot, though I'm not sure what kind it will be.

[BLANDCorporatio]

I suspect Jack is not going to survive. From a narrative point of view, he has been Parson's mentor/best friend on Erfworld, and the mentor figure has to die for the protagonist to reach his full potential. I hope not, I like him, but it seems inevitable.

Not quite; Maggie, if anyone, comes closest to the mentor/best friend thing (so best friend, that ... you know ... rumours started circulating).

If I were a gambling turtle, I'd put money on Jack living through this.

On the update itself. Hm. I'm a bit torn-

a) this suggests that several pages will now be spent parlaying, which won't be just an empty formality, and that the battle will be delayed. Boo-hoo-hoo, I wanted some more clashy-smashy action and soon.
b) this suggests that several pages will now be spent parlaying, which won't be just an empty formality. Now where can the plot go, I am intrigued. What will Trem think of?

[HandofShadows]

I think we may have seen some history here from the start fo the "game". Spacerock was the name of the Side, Capital AND King. That sounds a lot like a universe start point to me for Erfworld. The conversation between Wanda and T will be .... interesting I think.

[gazes_also]

Not quite; Maggie, if anyone, comes closest to the mentor/best friend thing (so best friend, that ... you know ... rumours started circulating).

If I were a gambling turtle, I'd put money on Jack living through this.

On the update itself. Hm. I'm a bit torn-

a) this suggests that several pages will now be spent parlaying, which won't be just an empty formality, and that the battle will be delayed. Boo-hoo-hoo, I wanted some more clashy-smashy action and soon.
b) this suggests that several pages will now be spent parlaying, which won't be just an empty formality. Now where can the plot go, I am intrigued. What will Trem think of?

I see your point on Maggie. That would be a completely different dynamic to Jack croaking on the frontlines. Croaked by an angry Stanley? Or as blow-back from a Parson master-stroke? That someone close to Parson croaks as a consequence of his actions seems fairly inevitable.

I wonder what he could offer to Wanda to make her even consider surrendering, I can't think of anything, but he is a diplomat and negotiator.
I think Tram will try to reach his brother, while his father will want the 'abomination' destroyed immediately. Maybe his plan is an offer of sanctuary to Ossomer, to get him far enough away that he won't dust when Wanda goes down - that appeared to be Jillian's theory in grabbing Ansom.

Wild speculation - Maybe if they get him close enough they can lasso him and pull him into the tower.

There's going to be a fair bit of talky-talky before we get stabby-stabby, or indeed splatty-splatty.

[Welf von Ehrwald]

They are popping a royal heir? Now? they can pop a complete stack of infantry every turn instead. And since this is the capital, they can hire a turnamancer and increase the rate by 50%. Assuming it takes 60 turns to pop an heir, they forgo about 300 - 350 additional units, more with an turnamancer, for a single warlord that won't even be available at the great battle. That doesn't seem very smart.
Or was that the plan? Maybe the produced units doesn't change if a city is captured. then GK would pop a royal warlord with heir qualities from the Jetstone tribe, that could work as a mole or a potential rebel.

[splintermute]

I suspect Jack is not going to survive. From a narrative point of view, he has been Parson's mentor/best friend on Erfworld, and the mentor figure has to die for the protagonist to reach his full potential. I hope not, I like him, but it seems inevitable.

Not quite; Maggie, if anyone, comes closest to the mentor/best friend thing (so best friend, that ... you know ... rumours started circulating).

I think Jack is more Parson's apprentice/disciple. The mentor figures, the ones who have actually tried to teach him how Erfworld works, despite their own limited pools of knowledge, were/are Misty and Sizemore (which doesn't bode well for Sizemore, if the mentor trope holds true).

We still don't know how succession works. Trem seemed pretty sure earlier that as soon as Wanda killed King Slately that he and his men would vanish and their whole side would be destroyed. I don't see any reason that it would be different if Slately is killed during this battle.

If Slately is killed during this battle, his units won't vanish, they'll freeze in time because they're in a city. Of course if that happens, it would be simple for GK to finish them off and decrypt them (a decrypted Tramennis would be awesome!), unless someone comes and interrupts them and frightens them away (Faq? Haggar? Charlie?).

I'm not sure how the freezing mechanic works - it doesn't involve an auto-disband when an enemy enters the city, because Bea spent her treasury upgrading her garrison and sending them out of the city for the express purpose of destroying them. Do they animate when there's an enemy in the city? Do they just have to stand there frozen and be attacked? Can they be "rescued" or surrender to a rescuing side (e.g. if Jillian returns to a frozen Spacerock)?

They are popping a royal heir? Now? they can pop a complete stack of infantry every turn instead. And since this is the capital, they can hire a turnamancer and increase the rate by 50%. Assuming it takes 60 turns to pop an heir, they forgo about 300 - 350 additional units, more with an turnamancer, for a single warlord that won't even be available at the great battle. That doesn't seem very smart.
Or was that the plan? Maybe the produced units doesn't change if a city is captured. then GK would pop a royal warlord with heir qualities from the Jetstone tribe, that could work as a mole or a potential rebel.

The timing suggests the decision to pop the heir was made more than 40 turns ago (I don't think they used a turnamancer) - perhaps they expected Ansom to attack the outlying Jetstone buffer cities instead of attempting a capital strike, which would have given them time to pop a spare heir if Ossomer, their CWL, was killed in battle. It's actually a pretty good strategy (one followed by several European noble houses) to always try to have an heir and a spare. Of course it was probably a terrible decision, tactically, if they had the option of promoting Tramennis to spare heir instead of popping a new one - perhaps it would have been too expensive, or perhaps the appointee needs to willing, and Tramennis (selfishly) didn't want to be an heir.

[Hermeus]

Doing my part a member of the Magic Kingdom, random speculation lurks below.

Spoiler: show

If this is not foreshadowing that Tramennis can survive the loss of Jetstone, I am not sure what is. As we learned back during the FAQ reformation, capital sights are huge as they can allow barbarians to form new sides. Jetstone having two was setting it up for a civil war and the fracturing into two sides are royals are want to do. The war with Gobwin knob put that on the back burner, but I do not count Tramennis out for being able to swing his own side out of this once Jetstones plans go south. Parson has the resources available him finish off a decapitation strike, and my money is that is what will set the tone in Transylvito in the seen we have observed with out context.

Thoughts on the outcome Jack lives, Wanda Lives, Scarlet dies for her queen, and Ossomer has served his part in the plot. We will also get to see some decrypted dwagons, that should prove interesting as they were loyal to the hammer, and the the pliers.

[Orca]

Dunno if anyone's mentioned it, but Tremennis rides a mount which leaves the ground with every step.

[raphfrk]

Dunno if anyone's mentioned it, but Tremennis rides a mount which leaves the ground with every step.

That probably doesn't count.

Jump and fly are presumably separate actions .

[DevilDan]

Is potshots a pun?

[ftl]

We still don't know how succession works. Trem seemed pretty sure earlier that as soon as Wanda killed King Slately that he and his men would vanish and their whole side would be destroyed. I don't see any reason that it would be different if Slately is killed during this battle.

If Slately is killed during this battle, his units won't vanish, they'll freeze in time because they're in a city. Of course if that happens, it would be simple for GK to finish them off and decrypt them (a decrypted Tramennis would be awesome!), unless someone comes and interrupts them and frightens them away (Faq? Haggar? Charlie?).

I'm not sure how the freezing mechanic works - it doesn't involve an auto-disband when an enemy enters the city, because Bea spent her treasury upgrading her garrison and sending them out of the city for the express purpose of destroying them. Do they animate when there's an enemy in the city? Do they just have to stand there frozen and be attacked? Can they be "rescued" or surrender to a rescuing side (e.g. if Jillian returns to a frozen Spacerock)?

Actually, I think in this case, the freezing mechanic wouldn't come into play.

What we've heard of freezing is that "units in a city are frozen until attacked". But, in the context of Erfworld, what that would mean is that probably they freeze until an enemy enters the city (thus, starting an attack).

In most cases, this is a pretty helpless position to be in. Your enemy knows exactly the composition of forces in the city, can pop whatever units would be perfect for the assault, bring them all into position, and attack.

In the case of Jetstone, they'd already BE under attack. So they wouldn't freeze while GK is still in Spacerock. GK would have to escape Spacerock alive (which is their objective anyway).

[MonteCristo]

Even more interesting that Slately has no interest in making Trem the heir, nor even allowing him to remain as Chief Warlord a minute more than necessary. Not that Trem seems to mind -- he seems too much of a philosopher and strategist to want either job, which is why I still think he'll end up King of Jetstone before the day is out. I really hope we find out what Slately has against his eldest son? Is it just the fact that he is the least stereotypically "noble" of his three sons?

Unless i missed one, it could be possible that "heir" and "chief warlord" are related titles... as in, while a side normally gets to choose the chief warlord, if they have an Heir, then the Heir AUTOMATICALLY the chief warlord... Stanely, Caesar, Jillian, Haggar, Ossomer and Ansom, all seemed to play the role of both chief warlord and heir. if this is the case, then this would be the reason why Trem does not get to be heir as opposed to his brothers; it's because he's not well suited for battle.

While a chief warlord with a strategic mind is valuable, one of the greatest benefits of a chief warlord is the bonus he provides when he's on the front lines, and being on the frontlines means being able to fight. If Trem is not that good of a fighter, that might give Slately enough reason to overlook him in favor of his younger sons; And since he wants a fighter to be his chief warlord, that ends up meaning he must also be the heir, for the reasons i mentioned above.

This could be part of why Ansom was his original heir out of the 3, he had the best balance of strength and mind, while the other two only specialize only in one area.

Tram's gifts are diplomacy and deal-brokering. A diplomat who is royal is an advantage, but an heir is too much to risk in a negotiation, far too much leverage if he's taken hostage.

eh, i don't know about that... if you have the ability to just change heirs (for a price), then i don't think it makes him THAT much of a risk
If he gets taken, you just name a new heir and he's no longer as valuable anymore

We still don't know how succession works. Trem seemed pretty sure earlier that as soon as Wanda killed King Slately that he and his men would vanish and their whole side would be destroyed. I don't see any reason that it would be different if Slately is killed during this battle.

Trem was certain they would disappear because it was GOBWINKNOB's TURN, and they did not have an heir... from what we can tell, unlike cheif warlord, a new heir can not be named off turn; as Parson pointed out in his klog, there are many things you can't do off-turn and only a few you can... the difference now, in this battle, is that now it is JETSTONE's turn, which means that it is very possible that Slately can name a new heir (Trem)

granted, it is actually possible that it's the case that an heir can only be named when the heir-to-be is IN the capitol... So you could name a new heir if it's off turn, but only if that heir is in the capitol, which Trem was not... But that's just overthinking... the important thing is, is that it is Jetstone's turn and Trem is going to see his father

[Joe Falco]

Jetstone (like any side) has one capital city. The comment about "capital sites" seems to imply that a side can't have its capital just anywhere -- there are certain sites, and no others, where it's possible, and if a side doesn't have such a site it's SOL in that regard even if it still has its ruler, enough cash to rebuild, etc.

I misread your first post and thought you wrote "cities" instead of "sites". My bad.

[pSycHOtic chICkeN]

With all the emphasis on the air fight, it does seem likely that the ugly idea involves Wanda's group somehow leaving the airspace.

I find it interesting that it seems that Jetstone's standard operating procedure is to parley before fights.

I'm also curious as to why Wanda didn't try to take a potshot with the yellow dragons? Are dragon specials also limited to a number of charges per turn?

Probably limited, like archer arrows.

However, the more straighforward reason why she didn't attack may be because she wasn't paying attention - they're in their little huddle, they expect Jetstone to Parley before anything happens, and they're not looking for the little strategic opportunities that Parson would be looking for. Rushing Trem just as he got careless would probably have been a good idea, especially under the guise of foolamancy, since it seemed possible; but Wanda wasn't waiting for the dramatic entrance and was probably just thinking defensively.

I am not an expert on dwagon anatomy, but I suspect that each yellow dwagon has one large intestine full of battle crap and it recharges once per turn. If there is a way to get it to recharge faster it probably involves spending more schmuckers on rations. Bogroll was able to get a breakfast for Parson's off turn. Maybe the yellow dwagons are not attacking Tremenis because they are busy gorging on excessive rations.

[Sixty]

If they do capture the city on Jetstone's turn, remember that shackles appeared on Wrigley and all of Unaroyal's units in the city still alive at that time. Jetstone units in other cities would freeze of course, but would the units in Spacerock freeze or get shackles or both? Since enemy units are in the city is that enough to count as being attacked but since the garrison of the city they're in has been taken would they automatically be prisoners?

[joosy]

So.. other sides in Erfworld DO name at least some of their streets.

Some other interesting info and foreshadowing, First off we know that GK has a little more time to make their plans as they Royals will let their ego's and tradition override common sense and have then engage in parley before massacre.

I wonder if Trem's attitude toward Ossomer has changed since he saw how Jillian viewed Ansom. He may start finally standing up to his King Slately and pursue his own agenda in those regards.

We have the 'Chekhov's Gun" of the other capitol side for Jetstone mentioned as well. Since it IS Jetstone's turn it probably makes sense to take the time to name Trammenis as heir, so that he can live to fight another day. (assuming naming heirs can only be done during your own turn). I consider it a little foreshadowing of Jetstone having to retreat to their old capitol. Trammennis is too valuable a character as a Jetstone champion than be wasted as a decrypted slave so my guess is he survives.

To those who were wondering about the pairing of Chief Warlord and heir status. It's probably just good internal politics. We know that loyalty is an unknowable stat but that it is highest in Chief Warlords. Therefore it is probably best to have your heir as CW so that your chance of them leading a coup is minimalized.

We still have Charlie trying to keep his involvement in this from Parson so that Parson can't factor that in and we still have the issue of the missing Gobwins. We know that Charlie wants Parson and the bracer and the pliers but I don't see how he benefits from playing in the background unless he plans on distracting Parson enough to suprise GK with an attack. Perhaps that will be a good distraction for Stanley and wll keep him doing what he does best (being made Overlord is a classic example of the Peter Principle at work) and leading a fight.

Keep up the good, work folks!

[fruityjanitor]

Nice play on Spaceballs.

Although I'm sad that they didn't actually take potshots at him! Obviously they have something more sinister planned?

I can't wait for Spacerock: the cereal, Spacerock: the action figure, and Spacerock: the flamethrower!

[DoctorJest]

I can't wait for Spacerock: the cereal, Spacerock: the action figure, and Spacerock: the flamethrower!

Moichendising!