160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby -D- » Wed May 13, 2009 2:56 pm

Panel 2 seems to imply that the dragon is angry with him. That would be consistent with him being about to tame it.

Really? I just think the dragons eyes shine just like the attuned Arkenhammer meaning the dragons are tamed. The dragons always look pissed as far as I recall.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Whispri » Wed May 13, 2009 3:01 pm

SteveMB wrote:
Whispri wrote:
Lothmar wrote:They probably had the invasion on a set date and did not know they'd be sent away. Either that or stanley didnt follow the plan and simply went "LEROY JENKINS!" and charged in to sack a couple cities and earn som exp. XDt

Neither of which reasons stand up to Wanda's foreknowledge given how close Gobwin's Knob appears to be to Faq. Contacting him when Jilian just arrived home wouldn't exactly be a stroke of genius.


Given that Faq appears to be at least two turns from GK at dwagon-group speeds, it's possible that Wanda did call Stanley in when Jillian returned from a mercenary mission, and they got called out on another mercenary mission before Stanley arrived. It's not as if Jillian would insist on relaxing at home for a while before returning to the field....

She was 'way out in the field and on her own'. Either that was a lie, and Jillian didn't care enough to come back when called (which wouldn't be a surprise to be honest) or this plot occured when the Croatan were weaker than ususual which makes no sense. Bear in mind that if we're trusting Jillian then those mercenary missions were the last resort when it came to boosting the treasury.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby The Old Hack » Wed May 13, 2009 3:21 pm

Whispri wrote:She was 'way out in the field and on her own'. Either that was a lie, and Jillian didn't care enough to come back when called (which wouldn't be a surprise to be honest) or this plot occured when the Croatan were weaker than ususual which makes no sense. Bear in mind that if we're trusting Jillian then those mercenary missions were the last resort when it came to boosting the treasury.

Yes, and always for far off sides that didn't know where they were from. It's not really impossible. For example:

1) Wanda hatches plot with Stanley
2) Stanley tells Wanda, "I'll be ready a handful of Turns from now, have stuff to do for my King first"
3) Unknown to Wanda, Banhammer decides treasury is booped and orders Jillian to leave on new mission
4) Jillian flies off and is 3 or more Turns gone
5) Stanley attacks Faq and sacks it.

Or alternately Wanda just completely misestimated Faq's strength and the power of the Arkenhammer, and didn't think Jillian's absence would matter that much.

Still, she might be lying. I just don't think she is, her story rings true to me. If... incomplete.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Ansan Gotti » Wed May 13, 2009 3:37 pm

Some notes.

1) I don't think Wanda and Stanley had a detailed, precise plan as to when he would strike, and even if they did, Stanley hasn't exactly demonstrated himself to be the most disciplined guy. I subscribe to the belief that he happened to strike when Jillian happened to be away, and that Wanda's calculations assumed Jillian would be present, mostly because Wanda has shown herself to be very competent thus far.

2) Wanda referred to Stanley as "a warlord," which means that the sacking of Faq happened before the overthrow of Saline. Which means that Wanda probably engineered the overthrow in order to install her very malleable warlord as overlord. Heck, she probably even planted the idea in Saline's ear of making Stanley the heir, first. In fact, the sacking of Faq was probably one of the key victories that made Saline happy enough with Stanley to promote him.

3) I think the last panel is implying that Wanda knows Stanley well enough to know that he is going to be majorly upset with Parson...
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed May 13, 2009 3:42 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:3) I think the last panel is implying that Wanda knows Stanley well enough to know that he is going to be majorly upset with Parson...


Could be ... my interpretation was that Wanda is telling Parson he should be afraid of Fate (Magic).
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Ansan Gotti » Wed May 13, 2009 3:50 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Could be ... my interpretation was that Wanda is telling Parson he should be afraid of Fate (Magic).


Maybe. As I think about it some more, it might be that grieve and lose relates to his sense of loss for all of the death he wrought, particularly Bogroll who Wanda saw him react to quite strongly. And that she's telling him he's got a lot more killing to do.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Whispri » Wed May 13, 2009 3:57 pm

The Old Hack wrote:
Whispri wrote:She was 'way out in the field and on her own'. Either that was a lie, and Jillian didn't care enough to come back when called (which wouldn't be a surprise to be honest) or this plot occured when the Croatan were weaker than ususual which makes no sense. Bear in mind that if we're trusting Jillian then those mercenary missions were the last resort when it came to boosting the treasury.

Yes, and always for far off sides that didn't know where they were from. It's not really impossible. For example:

1) Wanda hatches plot with Stanley
2) Stanley tells Wanda, "I'll be ready a handful of Turns from now, have stuff to do for my King first"
3) Unknown to Wanda, Banhammer decides treasury is booped and orders Jillian to leave on new mission
4) Jillian flies off and is 3 or more Turns gone
5) Stanley attacks Faq and sacks it.

Or alternately Wanda just completely misestimated Faq's strength and the power of the Arkenhammer, and didn't think Jillian's absence would matter that much.

Still, she might be lying. I just don't think she is, her story rings true to me. If... incomplete.

Wanda could just get in touch with him again and tell him of an unsual gathering of strength at the capital that would end in so many turns in that scenario. Oh say a massive increase in magical air defences caused by paranoia on the part of the Prediamancer that would take so many turns for her to subvert.

Ansan Gotti wrote:1) I don't think Wanda and Stanley had a detailed, precise plan as to when he would strike, and even if they did, Stanley hasn't exactly demonstrated himself to be the most disciplined guy. I subscribe to the belief that he happened to strike when Jillian happened to be away, and that Wanda's calculations assumed Jillian would be present, mostly because Wanda has shown herself to be very competent thus far.

According to Jillian mercenary work was only carried out when there was no other way of boosting the treasury, which really does make the window for happenstance sound rather small.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby SteveMB » Wed May 13, 2009 4:09 pm

Whispri wrote:According to Jillian mercenary work was only carried out when there was no other way of boosting the treasury, which really does make the window for happenstance sound rather small.

We have no idea how often Faq needed extra funds. Also, each mission would be prolonged by the need to travel to and from a "far-off" side. Additionally, we can be sure that Jillian bent each and every judgment-call situation in the direction of being away from home longer and more often.

Given all that, Faq's only real military force might have been away for a fairly high percentage of turns.
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby kreszantas » Wed May 13, 2009 4:14 pm

Wanda missing a few details should not really matter this makes for cracks in both stories and allows for futher exposition later, if it is all solved now than there will be a less dramatic confrontation later. The timeline for fall of the kingdoms can now work either way, now with Saline's fall while Stanley was out conquering faq makes more sense due to Stanley already having the hammer. If Saline fell while he was conquering faq, it would not matter due to him being heir and his side was not removed with him being in a captial location, all he has to do is take his toys fly back put down the rebellion and carry on as overlord, which fits the panel with the back rubbing and encouragement by Wanda for the other tools.

Now as for Parson, he is getting awful defensive when things are out of his comfort zone, the jab by Ansom and now the upper cut by Wanda are showing that he is still human after all and will be greatly affected. Book 2 looks to be starting within a couple pages, just Stanley's return and a Jillian/Vinny & Co page to wrap it all up.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby The Old Hack » Wed May 13, 2009 4:19 pm

SteveMB wrote:
Whispri wrote:According to Jillian mercenary work was only carried out when there was no other way of boosting the treasury, which really does make the window for happenstance sound rather small.

We have no idea how often Faq needed extra funds. Also, each mission would be prolonged by the need to travel to and from a "far-off" side. Additionally, we can be sure that Jillian bent each and every judgment-call situation in the direction of being away from home longer and more often.

Given all that, Faq's only real military force might have been away for a fairly high percentage of turns.

This also assumes that it was happenstance. I rather doubt that it was; rather, it was Fate.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby ShinyBrownCoat » Wed May 13, 2009 4:36 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Also, Parson did lose Bogroll, and his original cavalier perspective.


I think the latter is what she was getting at. Recall what Parson said about wanting to command armies in war, but without anyone really getting hurt. It's a classic loss of innocence reference.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed May 13, 2009 4:52 pm

I still wonder about Jack though. So ok, Wanda tells Stanley where the city is, veils can be pierced if you're persistent and know what you're looking for etc ... Yet, Jack's on their side now!

The plot thickens ...
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Lothmar » Wed May 13, 2009 5:03 pm

Well, it was either work for stanley or, KABONG! With the arkenhammer. XD
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Thydron » Wed May 13, 2009 5:04 pm

Maybe Jack got told something by the Predictamancer that makes him loyal to Stanley too?
From the way Wanda said "or may yet do" and the certainty with which she stated that Parson *will* suffer, lose, grieve, etc. it seems she might have been told a lot more by the predictamancer that we haven't heard yet.
If the predicamancer knew no-one was going to come by Faq's cities for a few turns they might as well have used their mojo to tell everyones fortunes.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby The Old Hack » Wed May 13, 2009 5:06 pm

Lothmar wrote:Well, it was either work for stanley or, KABONG! With the arkenhammer. XD

Not entirely what BLANDcorporatio was getting at, I think. If this were the case, Jack's loyalty would have been fairly low -- certainly so low that Jillian's expectations of him Turning sides might well have come true. Instead, he stayed true to Stanley in spite of previous abuse and in spite of the fact that he obviously still loved Jillian. Hence, there must have been more to Jack's Loyalty to the Tool. Whether this be a simple control spell or some other cause... we can't say yet.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby DivineDragoonKain » Wed May 13, 2009 5:10 pm

...Is the Predictamancer Ms. Cleo?
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Dr Pepper » Wed May 13, 2009 5:22 pm

Can loyalty be that elastic? It's ok to conspire with foreign powers to attack your own side as long as you honestly believe they'll lose?
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby SteveMB » Wed May 13, 2009 5:29 pm

Dr Pepper wrote:Can loyalty be that elastic? It's ok to conspire with foreign powers to attack your own side as long as you honestly believe they'll lose?

And honestly believe that the result will be to get yourself (and, by extension, your side) possession of an attuned Arkentool? Perhaps....
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Morthe » Wed May 13, 2009 5:31 pm

Fancy: resurrected male units only have the cool skull while female got the skull with the red flower (panel 6 middle, panel 7 right).

Are those masks on the wall of the predictamancer from any known comics? One looks like the Spiderman mask but the one with the dragonfly?
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby The Old Hack » Wed May 13, 2009 5:38 pm

SteveMB wrote:
Dr Pepper wrote:Can loyalty be that elastic? It's ok to conspire with foreign powers to attack your own side as long as you honestly believe they'll lose?

And honestly believe that the result will be to get yourself (and, by extension, your side) possession of an attuned Arkentool? Perhaps....

It depends on how strong the loyalty is. We already know that Banhammer was not the most diplomatic and well-loved of rulers. He treated his Warlords like crap, for one thing, and did not have a good relationship with Jillian. Also, and rather eerily, Wanda herself has just now stated that she is loyal to Fate magic.

And that Faq Predictamancer... is beginning to irritate me. The Faq predictamancer foretold the fall of the Kingdom, well and good. The Faq predictamancer also told Wanda that she would one day possess an Arkentool... directly causing Wanda to enter the bargain that would cause the fall of the Kingdom. Self-fulfilling prophecies, anyone? Did the Predictamancer tell Banhammer of the coming fall because she/he knew it would make Banhammer order an heir popped, for that matter? Whoever that Predictamancer is, I smell manipulation like a forest fire...
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