Book 2 – Page 36

[gaiaswill]

Vanna was positioned in the tower for the caster bonus. The tower bonus to casters may have even been necessary to provide Vanna with enough juice for the spell.

RCC II was not expecting to face an air force because Ansom's deception was completely successful. Ossomer's testimony post-Decryption mentioned their strategy was to hold the line long enough for Haggar to reinforce, which makes no sense against a flyer force. A caster garrisoned in the tower of a capital seemed like a perfectly reasonable and safe place.

[DevilDan]

Vanna was positioned in the tower for the caster bonus. The tower bonus to casters may have even been necessary to provide Vanna with enough juice for the spell.

Possibly. We don't know. It was also a good place for LOS and for communication with Jill.

RCC II was not expecting to face an air force because Ansom's deception was completely successful. Ossomer's testimony post-Decryption mentioned their strategy was to hold the line long enough for Haggar to reinforce, which makes no sense against a flyer force. A caster garrisoned in the tower of a capital seemed like a perfectly reasonable and safe place.

Yes, except that at any point Trammenis could have spilled the beans to Slately. And Vanna (and Slately) can move around all they want in their own city during GK's turn.

[Schlock]

Ehehehe Parson is about to do something unpleasant. I love these parts

[gaiaswill]

Yes, except that at any point Trammenis could have spilled the beans to Slately. And Vanna (and Slately) can move around all they want in their own city during GK's turn.

Slately could have, point ceded. But Vanna is an allied unit, not a Jetstone caster, and cannot cross zones so freely. She was stuck on the tower.

Re: Slately. Who knows? Maybe he was feeling fatalistic with the beast of truth bearing down on him. Or maybe he just really needed to know about Queen Bea's last moments. Or maybe he just likes high places, being king and all.

[DevilDan]

Yes, except that at any point Trammenis could have spilled the beans to Slately. And Vanna (and Slately) can move around all they want in their own city during GK's turn.

Slately could have, point ceded. But Vanna is an allied unit, not a Jetstone caster, and cannot cross zones so freely. She was stuck on the tower.

Re: Slately. Who knows? Maybe he was feeling fatalistic with the beast of truth bearing down on him. Or maybe he just really needed to know about Queen Bea's last moments. Or maybe he just likes high places, being king and all.

Why wouldn't we assume that units can move from one area to another of an allied city. Jill didn't seem to have any trouble moving from tower to sky and back.

In any case, unless Jill believes in the Purloined Letter method of concealment, they could have always moved Jetstone troops to try to protect or hide Vanna.

[splintermute]

Why wouldn't we assume that units can move from one area to another of an allied city. Jill didn't seem to have any trouble moving from tower to sky and back.

Jill couldn't move into the tower on GK's turn. That was how Slately realized RCC II's turn had started - Jillian was able to enter the tower to retrieve Vanna (see page 22).

[DevilDan]

Yeah, I admit I was afraid that that was the case, that she had only been hovering close to the tower. Seems silly not to give allies privileges that cities from that side has. (Too much too hope that this was a slipup, haha.)

I think I can see an upcoming scene, but I don't think Charlie is dumb enough to waste a calculation that won't get used...

Charlie: "Hey Parson, what're the odds that those forces of yours'll do badly this turn? "

Parson: Fair-to-good number inserted here.

Charlie: "D:"

Parson: "lol"

A calculation that Charlie would be willing to use is one that gets him a better shot at employing Parson.

Charlie: "I'll use up one calculation: What are the chances you won't get croaked in the next turn" or "what are the chances that Stanley won't lose his temper and hammer-tase you" or "what are the chances Wanda won't betray you?"

[gazes_also]

Yeah, I admit I was afraid that that was the case, that she had only been hovering close to the tower. Seems silly not to give allies privileges that cities from that side has. (Too much too hope that this was a slipup, haha.)

No, not a slip, you're just making stuff up.

[Altima]

When you think about it, the Timewarp spell has some significant flaws in it.

Remember that cities count as one hex to *only* defending units. If Wanda had merely attacked, even if the spell went off, Wanda and co. would still be in the same hex, rendering it a mostly moot point, as the slaughter and decryption would already have begun. Sure, Wanda wouldn't have been able to leave the tower zone (or whatever zone she attacked), but she would have gained a foothold, a massive increase in decrypted forces (who would gain a leadership bonus from Wanda on top of her artifact bonus, making them a lot tougher than they were), and it's likely the tower defenses wouldn't have been able to fry her. Lastly, there would only be one Jetstone caster in the area.

Cities are a special case.

Now, if they had tried the spell in, say, an open field, it would have been a different story. The enemy would be free and clear to attack any other enemy in the hex--which your caster would be in. Your *drained* caster. Actually, casters, since the spell is so powerful it should require a link and drain most, if not all, of their juice in the process. So in the open field, while you would have screwed over the rest of the enemy side, you would basically be sacrificing two or more casters--who are very, very valuable.

It was a one-time event that, most likely, will not be repeated, due to the complexity and risks involved. If I were Wanda, I certainly wouldn't bother with Parley after this, especially if I had overwhelming advantage.

Personally, I hope Parson takes the Kingsworld situation and shoves it right down someone's throat for being too cute for their own good.

[Chit Rule Railroad]

When you think about it, the Timewarp spell has some significant flaws in it.
....
Now, if they had tried the spell in, say, an open field, it would have been a different story. The enemy would be free and clear to attack any other enemy in the hex--which your caster would be in. Your *drained* caster. Actually, casters, since the spell is so powerful it should require a link and drain most, if not all, of their juice in the process. So in the open field, while you would have screwed over the rest of the enemy side, you would basically be sacrificing two or more casters--who are very, very valuable.

One other way to use the spell would be to send Vanna out on a flying mount under a veil. If she found a hex containing an enemy scout or a force with no anti-air, she could lie in wait at turn's end. Upon receiving a thinkagram or hat message that the enemy side is in a bad position to end turn, she would cast the spell. Of course, this would require hoping that the convenient enemy patsy does not leave the hex inconveniently soon nor that a more substantial force approaches the casters' hex or the casters' escape route back from the front line, which would force her to use the spell to protect herself. It would require an extensive intelligence network to know when to trigger the spell and to watch for danger approaching the casters' hex and also the commitment of foolamancy resources away from the battle (I'm not sure if one can travel between hexes veiled using a single scroll).

I know it's a long shot, but I would be amused if TV or Charlie's spying habits backfired by enabling enemy spell-casting shenanigans.

[Lamech]

My (purely conjectural) take on it is that the Timewarp spell was a hack of the GK CnC mechanisms rather than a tweak at Stanley ( which Maggie could have detected). With command level GK units in the hex Vanna hacks into their turn controls (hence the square turning - cracking the 'password') and issues the end turn command. I wonder whether leaving Ansom behind may have come close to screwing up the whole thing...

Thats what I assumed. Who all can end turns anyway? Can the chief warlord do it? Can just any side in an alliance do it? Can a chief caster do it?

well... although Ansom was Stanley's CWL, he was completely under Wanda's control, so she was de facto commander. My guess is that anyone at senior command level would have provided the necessary 'terminal' to hack the system.

Wanda according to the cast page IIRC is "chief croakamancer", she also provides hex-wide and global bonuses like a chief warlord. So it seems reasonable to assume Wanda is the croakamancer equivilent to the chief warlord.

[build6]

anyways, off-topic a little, but "William Morris Endeavor" eh?

kickass

[robak]

I speculated in the other thread, that maybe Charlie doesn't have an MK portal, but he does hire caster from time to time. Maybe he only hires them for remote linking? According to Sizemore even a 2-caster link boosts the power of the linked caster. Plus there would be no need to show anyone how Charlescomm looks like.
Side note: Why didn't Wanda and Maggie link up for the Trioxin spell, if 2-way links are so much easier and safer?

Edit: Did I miss this in the thread or has noone speculated about the possibility to buy units from another side? I mean, we got mercenaries, but really buying another unit? Seems new to me. Exploitable?

[JustDoug]

Jill couldn't move into the tower on GK's turn. That was how Slately realized RCC II's turn had started - Jillian was able to enter the tower to retrieve Vanna (see page 22).

Slately realized it was his turn because he knew it was his turn in much the same manner Commanders can see unit stats. Remember Stanley knowing immediately that GK's turn had ended?

While I can't state the above as absolute "fact" and canon, from all indications units have an innate sense of whether it's their turn or not, though the fact that rulers do have that sense is plainly inferred from the story and klog text.

[splintermute]

Jill couldn't move into the tower on GK's turn. That was how Slately realized RCC II's turn had started - Jillian was able to enter the tower to retrieve Vanna (see page 22).

Slately realized it was his turn because he knew it was his turn in much the same manner Commanders can see unit stats. Remember Stanley knowing immediately that GK's turn had ended?

While I can't state the above as absolute "fact" and canon, from all indications units have an innate sense of whether it's their turn or not, though the fact that rulers do have that sense is plainly inferred from the story and klog text.

Then why does he sound so surprised in panel 1, page 22? It's likely that, with normal turn transitions, units have an innate sense of "turn", but in unusual circumstances like Kingworld they need some external cue to remind them.

[gazes_also]

Jill couldn't move into the tower on GK's turn. That was how Slately realized RCC II's turn had started - Jillian was able to enter the tower to retrieve Vanna (see page 22).

Slately realized it was his turn because he knew it was his turn in much the same manner Commanders can see unit stats. Remember Stanley knowing immediately that GK's turn had ended?

While I can't state the above as absolute "fact" and canon, from all indications units have an innate sense of whether it's their turn or not, though the fact that rulers do have that sense is plainly inferred from the story and klog text.

Then why does he sound so surprised in panel 1, page 22? It's likely that, with normal turn transitions, units have an innate sense of "turn", but in unusual circumstances like Kingworld they need some external cue to remind them.

Slately was a tad distracted at that moment by his anger at what he believed was Jillian selling him out: Vanna could have set fire to his curly wig at that point and he probably wouldn't have noticed straight away.

[Whispri]

So then, food fight, could that just be an obtuse way of saying Schmucker fight? 'Cause it could be considered to be raw food considering the popping of rations. If so, I'll note that Wanda should be able to convert Schmuckers from the treasury into gems and throw them at people. Or summon a giant one and drop it on the Atrium to break the glass.

I'm wondering why Wanda is classed as extremely vulnerable, considering her minimum stats from here are pretty high. One less Ansom with her sure, but one extra Ossomer and one extra Sylvia, she's probably tougher now.

I really do find Jack to be mildly vexing, would it have croaked him to give Ossomer credit for the insight into their enemies' minds? As far as the veil is concerned, as I recall Wanda dismissed the idea out of hand on the grounds that it wouldn't work. She has a point, even if the Foolamancy lasted beyond the moment at which a large number of Warlords entered the hex, it surely wouldn't have saved her. And frankly I don't see why Jack taking time out from thinking about how wonderful he is to remind her that she can Decrypt the dead, in far greater detail than was in fact necessary, would change her mind. I mean, how could she have forgotten that?

As for Parson's allegations of craziness, in Wanda's case I'll just add that she's in pain, that can't be helping matters. As for Jetstone, yes they're taking their time in attacking, but why should they rush? They honestly think it's all over bar the shouting. Famous last thoughts on their part sure enough, but the fliers can't move and they aren't attacking, so why not wait until the Chief Warlord returned with his men? They don't know who they're facing after all and the only people who seem to think they haven't already won are Parson and Wanda. Plus the King is mourning his son and heir, is it surprising he's not at his boldest?

[DevilDan]

At the end of the day, I still don't think calling for a parley was needed for Vanna to do her work. Wanda didn't assume it, anyway:

Wanda Firebaugh: If you could do this, ...why even parley?

Queen Jillian Zamussels: For what it's worth, it was an honest offer.

http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/LIAB_23



Whispri:
It's not that Wanda is more vulnerable than other units per se, it's that she's the first and obvious target, as Slately told Jill.
What Parson considers "crazy" is the hewing to ideas of the will of the Titans, of faith, of nobility... when it limits one's tactical options.
Wanda isn't likely to be thinking about decrypting in the middle of battle, particularly not in terms of using decryption as a clever exploit. Wanda isn't herself averse to combat, as she's proven, so she was probably more focused on that than on casting.

[effataigus]

Good point, Devildan... 3 violations of parley already! Of course, that hardly worked out well for Unaroyal or poorly for GK... depending on the comparative worth of the Unaroyal daughter GK lost and the Unaroyal Warlord they gained.

It seems unlikely that Jillian needed the Parley in order to get the spell cast. Of course, a broader version of the question that prompted this debate is whether it would be wise for GK (tactically) to just stop talking to people. If GK had been unwilling to Parley then they probably would have come in under veil and quickly decapitated Faq or Jetstone before Faq was sure GK was there. If they had managed to drop the tower before the spell was cast then, well, Faq would be sitting ducks, Jetstone would be gone, and Charlescomm might have disbanded too...

Jill couldn't move into the tower on GK's turn. That was how Slately realized RCC II's turn had started - Jillian was able to enter the tower to retrieve Vanna (see page 22).

This is also my interpretation of Slately's surprise and Jillian's snarky retort: http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -02-24.jpg

[joosy]

Side note: Why didn't Wanda and Maggie link up for the Trioxin spell, if 2-way links are so much easier and safer?

Because the story didn't call for it.

Edit: Did I miss this in the thread or has noone speculated about the possibility to buy units from another side? I mean, we got mercenaries, but really buying another unit? Seems new to me. Exploitable?

It was suggested in the "Full Service" contract option mentioned by the Decrypted Archons. I would assume that the unit needs to be for sale first. If you could just buy a unit without the side's consent, then yes, then that would be an exploit.