Book 2 – Text Updates 027

[Chris Goodwin]

If Charlie could manipulate a predictamancer to get Wanda to betray Faq to Stanley... well, that makes him way scarier than Parson.

Oh... mother of....

Spoiler: show

What if Charlie was that Predictamancer?

[SteveMB]

So, Stanley is not so slow that he wouldn't rule out the possibility of a trap. He just interprets the facts just wrong.

Indeed. The most obvious interpretation of those facts (he started with 15 dwagons based on Wanda's description of what he was headed into, tamed an improbably large number of dwagons en route, and won a battle he would have lost if not for the extra forces) is that Wanda did set him up, but he got lucky (or, as he sees it, he was favored by the Titans).

[raphfrk]

After they're dead.

Since Wanda didn't like Banhammer, I wonder if she specifically made sure to uncroak him .

[MonteCristo]

Well that sheds a more light on the fall of faq...
Wanda may have been telling the truth about how she expected things to play out... however maybe she did not realize the power of the arkenhammer and did not realize how much power stanely could get from the surrounding areas... and when stanely started wailing on the city, she quickly realized they were doomed and switch sides to feign loyalty
It's uncertain though... She seemed to play a good contribution in stanely's victory; she may have realized she might have a better chance of finding her tool under a different warlord... though i guess the real in character answer might be that she plays with the cards she's dealt and was prepared for either scenerio; prepared to take advantage of Stanely's death, or take advantage of his victory

Ah well, i hope Jillian has the foresight to croak all the dwagons around Faq... not only to deprive Stanely units should he attack, but her units could also use the exp

So, Stanley runs into an unusually large number of dwagons on the way to a nearby city that he would be unable to capture without them. Sounds to me like this is more than just coincidence. I wonder if an effect that can prevent gobwins tribes from appearing can also be used to cause extra dwagons to spawn.....

I don't think there's anything really unusual about it... I'd imagine that a dwagons have a low spawn rate, and the rate gets smaller the more dwagons that are in the hex... 3 may be a possible cap; so you'll never find more than 3 feral dwagons in one hex and the chance that you will get the 3rd spawn is quite rare... As such, If Banhammer never bother to croak the dwagons in the mountains around Faq, then in theory the dwagons would just keep spawning until the hit the spawn cap for the hex... And thus you would have multiple hexes filled with feral dwagons.

in theory, if Stanely decided to sit back and do nothing for 100 turns or so, the minty mountains near gobwinknob might be impressively filled with dwagons aswell

[Ansan Gotti]

I don't think there's anything really unusual about it... I'd imagine that a dwagons have a low spawn rate, and the rate gets smaller the more dwagons that are in the hex... 3 may be a possible cap; so you'll never find more than 3 feral dwagons in one hex and the chance that you will get the 3rd spawn is quite rare... As such, If Banhammer never bother to croak the dwagons in the mountains around Faq, then in theory the dwagons would just keep spawning until the hit the spawn cap for the hex... And thus you would have multiple hexes filled with feral dwagons.

in theory, if Stanely decided to sit back and do nothing for 100 turns or so, the minty mountains near gobwinknob might be impressively filled with dwagons aswell

Makes sense, I like this theory as well.

[TheDemon]

Wasn't FAQ Charlie's main competition for mercenary work? Sounds like motivation to me. Especially if he can arrange their destruction at no cost to himself.

[Ansan Gotti]

By the way, I think this update confirms some things to me. I am pretty firmly of the opinion that Saline IV was overthrown as a result of Wanda's machinations, and that Charlie had nothing to do with it (unless he was helping Wanda, which I still doubt).

Basically, Wanda knew she was shackled to an idiot, but when she figured out that she could manipulate him, she wanted him to be on the throne, so she would have direct access to the levers of control. So she cuts a deal with the gobwins, makes them promise never to reveal what really happened, convinces Stanley to bring the casters out of the city on a "raid" (which it seems Saline IV would not have objected to, based on this text update... it sounds like Stanley could do whatever he wanted), and then the plan moves forward. Boom, overthrown Saline IV and Stanley on the throne, with Wanda being the real power behind the throne.

[fjolnir]

We have wanda's own words from chapter 1 that it was a setup attempt to both get her out from under banhammer and gain herself a tool, she was hoping that stanley would bite it on the offensive AND she would get banhammer's head and a nifty tool to go with it, it's merely the fact that he managed to FIND an overwhelming force on the way that allowed this to not proceed according to her plot...

[Trotsky]

If Charlie could manipulate a predictamancer to get Wanda to betray Faq to Stanley... well, that makes him way scarier than Parson.

Oh... mother of....

Spoiler: show

What if Charlie was that Predictamancer?

Spoiler: show

What if Charlie the Predictmancer was Charlie's mother who used Charlie and Wanda to ensure that Stanley would survive and have an conniving ally that would push him to a crazy quest to conquer the world forcing him to summon Parson in order to bring about world peace through the destruction of the basic assumptions and institutions that perpetuated fighting in Erfworld?

[MonteCristo]

Y'know, considering how Stanely managed to add about 20 dwagons(36 minus the 10 lost on the way) to gobwinknobs forces as well as two masterclass casters....
i'd be willing to say that this event is what spurned Saline IV to name Stanely his heir designate

If Charlie could manipulate a predictamancer to get Wanda to betray Faq to Stanley... well, that makes him way scarier than Parson.

Oh... mother of....

Spoiler: show

What if Charlie was that Predictamancer?

Charlie was already running his archon mercs operation...
He was Faq's main compeition for work

[Zak3056]

I do have one question though. Why would Charlie want to wipe out FAQ? Or did he support Stanley with the extra Dwagons just to prevent Wanda from possibly attuning to an arkentool?

I find it interesting that FAQ is the only "mercenary" side other than Charlescomm (that isn't barbarian) that we've heard of. Perhaps Charlie just wanted to knock out the competition?

[Welf von Ehrwald]

I don't think there's anything really unusual about it... I'd imagine that a dwagons have a low spawn rate, and the rate gets smaller the more dwagons that are in the hex... 3 may be a possible cap; so you'll never find more than 3 feral dwagons in one hex and the chance that you will get the 3rd spawn is quite rare... As such, If Banhammer never bother to croak the dwagons in the mountains around Faq, then in theory the dwagons would just keep spawning until the hit the spawn cap for the hex... And thus you would have multiple hexes filled with feral dwagons.

in theory, if Stanely decided to sit back and do nothing for 100 turns or so, the minty mountains near gobwinknob might be impressively filled with dwagons aswell

There is a problem with that; why didn't it happen again when Stanley fled to Faq? Or why did Stanley catch only 3 dwagons on his first dwagon hunt after TBfGK? Stanley apparently didn't tame any dwagons after he became ruler, and that was some 100 turns ago. The minty mountains should have been swarming with dwagons by then.

Maybe fate simply had other plans for Stanley than dying in some meaningless battle, and his attunement wasn't just a good roll.

[gameboy1234]

So, Stanley runs into an unusually large number of dwagons on the way to a nearby city that he would be unable to capture without them. Sounds to me like this is more than just coincidence. I wonder if an effect that can prevent gobwins tribes from appearing can also be used to cause extra dwagons to spawn.....

This is astute. While I agree that we shouldn't be trying to see Charlie behind every rock and tree, I think you may be on to something here. I wonder if Charlie functions as a kind of "Game Master", controlling Erfworld in special ways for his own amusement. Or for some more diabolical or morbid reason.

I wonder if Parson could be a Game Master too.

[Azukar]

I refuse to spot Charlie behind every tree and under every bed. I think it's more likely that the mountains around FAQ are dwagon-heavy (and Parson would love to know this info, I bet).

And yet, they were suspiciously dwagon-heavy on the one instance Stanley really needed it...

[Azukar]

I wonder if Parson could be a Game Master too.

It's probably been said before, but if Charlie and Parson ended up working together on equal footing, they could probably take over the world even faster than Gobwin Knob is right now.

Although I don't think world domination is what Charlie wants...

[Great Cthulhu]

So, when I showed up at Faq, I had thirty-six! And a lot of them were reds and purples so we just tore into the place.

This quote suggests that purples are a strong dwagon type. However, page 57 of book one refers to them as a weaker type.

Am I missing something here? Could it be that purples are only strong in this particular scenario (in sieges, or versus casters)?

What do you think?

[Ansan Gotti]

So, when I showed up at Faq, I had thirty-six! And a lot of them were reds and purples so we just tore into the place.

This quote suggests that purples are a strong dwagon type. However, page 57 of book one refers to them as a weaker type.

Am I missing something here? Could it be that purples are only strong in this particular scenario (in sieges, or versus casters)?

What do you think?

That's pretty much right. We know from this comic that reds and purples can burn the city and that was key to Parson's strategy against Jetstone:

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -12-24.jpg

[gameboy1234]

I wonder if Parson could be a Game Master too.

It's probably been said before, but if Charlie and Parson ended up working together on equal footing, they could probably take over the world even faster than Gobwin Knob is right now.

"Working together" wasn't what I had in mind. Epic fight at the gates of Mordor was more what I was thinking. Parson vs. Charlie, head to head.

[Jamus]

She turned when Stanley started attacking and then started moving between zones?

Risky, but it worked.

It's this that really, really surprises me- and is, I think, the actual meaty part of this story.

Stanley was surprised when this happened, and that should NOT be overlooked. He isn't a tactical genius, but he DOES have a very firm grip on the mechanics of the world. He was surprised that she turned.

In the middle of her side's turn, apparently unexpectedly. It seems almost certain that she set up Banhammer to be defeated- but then, duty and loyalty suggest that that should have been impossible or extremely difficult- see the recent comment by Maggie, talking about "at great personal" peril or something.

Do we have, in fact, ANY instance of a unit defecting of their own willpower? Seems to me we only know of turnamancy and capturing.

So here's the conspiracy theory this screams at me. Wanda didn't turn. She wasn't captured. She broke alliance. Mid-turn. I think we have another case or two of that happening within RCC. As supporting evidence, consider that her units are fiercely loyal to, apparently, only her. Consider that charlie's archons, in response to orders from their true ruler, were able to render a client 'full service' as though they were units belonging to that client. Consider that the decrypted forces have a decrypted ruler- and that they have extremely few living units other than dwagons. So maybe nobody noticed yet that the living units were never getting Ansom's bonus. And consider that the decrypted army has a DIFFERENT emblem, apparently, than Stanley's newly-redesigned one.

Consider that every other unit attuned to an arkentool is a side leader.

As for how things 'turned out' in FAQ, I think, if she was truly surprised by how it turned out, that she intended for Stanley to fail but weaken the defenses- and create many corpses, which she would then uncroak and finish the job, gaining FAQ for herself. The unexpected thing for her would be that she ended up actually having to ally with Stanley, who she expected to be dead.

The biggest holes in this story- in the first book it appeared that decrypted units served as warlords and chief warlords for Gobwin Knob. I find it unlikely that one side's unit can act as another's chief warlord- but then, did Ansom's bonus apply to the entire RCC? Secondly- wouldn't SOMEBODY have noticed by now? Particularly Maggie and Sizemore, having been linked to her at one point? (Though Vanna proved that links across sides on the same alliance are possible.)

So yeah, that's my suspicion. Wanda is in no danger of turning- she's already her own side.

[Great Cthulhu]

That's pretty much right. We know from this comic that reds and purples can burn the city and that was key to Parson's strategy against Jetstone:

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -12-24.jpg

Ah, that explains. Thanks!

Does make me wonder about the purple's breath weapon though. The wiki suggests it may be sonic, but sound doesn't normally cause things to catch fire. Would make some sense to shatter walls and the like, so I guess it could still help spread fire. But that still sounds less useful than a blue's electricity. Hmm...

Edit: went to the discussion page for that comic, and somebody pointed out that Parson refers to "fire and siege". So sonic does make sense.